2 Peter 3:9

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

With reference to 2 Peter 3:9, is there any one currently in hell that is there by the will of God?

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Originally Posted by Saxon

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

With reference to 2 Peter 3:9, is there any one currently in hell that is there by the will of God?

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Hi Saxon. Directly connected to the power and capability of the cross. Not that I gravitate scriptural bias at times, but this is one of those verses that exceeds (I would venture) some Christian’s tolerable conscience. Might be of interest to some, but I think also offensive for those not able.

Thank God, He so directed His willingness!

The answer: If we reject His mercy, WE do the sending.

Mike.

That sounds like I am to take that as a no. I agree with you in what you say and hope that I haven't miss-read you.

That is correct Saxon, not by the will of God.

I think saying this verse “bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things” (I Cor 13:7), might be an understatement, though quite an anchor for those wrestling in their darkest hour.

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Originally Posted by Saxon

is there any one currently in hell that is there by the will of God?

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“The Lord is, , not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” (II Peter 3:9)

Now comes that group whom has never heard the Gospel that they may repent. Now your question takes on a whole different importance.

Or since the verse specifies “that all should”, were you not directing it to “any one” hearing so that they might choose repentance?

Mike.

I am of the belief that anyone can repent and that anyone can be saved. No one has been predestined to salvation or ****ation.

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Originally Posted by Saxon

I am of the belief that anyone can repent and that anyone can be saved. No one has been predestined to salvation or ****ation.

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But Saxon,

", , if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire" (Rev 20:15)

By God's decree:

"with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." (Rom 10:10)

For "God , , now commands all men everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30)

So then:

"WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”

So, even if they might instinctively call upon the Creator to repent, but as you know we must "confess with the mouth the Lord Jesus".

"How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!”
However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?” (Rom 10:14-16)

Can they possibly believe in the Christ without hearing, just as Peter confessed Him by what God "revealed" to him? I think it's possible, regardless, "they did not all heed".

• The Gospel must be heard (v14-15)
• The gospel must be believed (v16)

I don't know how you feel, in that, although the kindness of God can "lead to repentance", it remains a stand alone. Generally, people understandingly become very opinionated over this and don't feel God could possibly do this to all the otherwise "good" people out there. I must admit, in life, as is also shown in the word very well-intentioned people. But we recall again His truth:

"THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.” (Rom 3:12)

This is as you can see, the whole world and everyone in it. So, if everyone is in need of the one and only name given under heaven by which "we must be saved", Jesus, how long do we have before we can no longer send any more preachers to the hearer?

"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come." (Matthew 24:14)
"And it shall come to p***, that in the place where it was said unto them, You are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God." (Rom 9:26)

Mike.

I am in full agreement with you as far as what you are saying goes. I think that you may have misunderstood me.

What I should say is that every one that has been born into the world has an equal opportunity for salvation. It is true that not everyone is going to be saved but no one has been predestined to heaven or to hell.

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Originally Posted by Saxon

I am in full agreement with you as far as what you are saying goes. I think that you may have misunderstood me.

What I should say is that every one that has been born into the world has an equal opportunity for salvation. It is true that not everyone is going to be saved but no one has been predestined to heaven or to hell.

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Thanks Sax,

Maybe this doesn’t qualify as “predestined” then.

For He knew who would betray Him. (John 13:11)

If He knew who would betray, then I suppose it isn’t such a profitable thought to consider He also knows who would repent?

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Thanks Sax,

Maybe this doesn’t qualify as “predestined” then.

For He knew who would betray Him. (John 13:11)

If He knew who would betray, then I suppose it isn’t such a profitable thought to consider He also knows who would repent?

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God knows the beginning to the end. If God looks through time and sees you eating a green apple on your 90th birthday and on your 90th birthday you do eat a green apple instead of a red one this didn’t happen because God caused it to happen but rather because he saw you eat the green apple. This is the difference between knowing and causing.

God knows who will respond because he saw them responding not because he caused them to respond. In any case it is God who allows it to happen and not necessarily the cause of it. It is my opinion that we are responsible to freely respond to the call of God.

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Originally Posted by Saxon

God knows the beginning to the end. If God looks through time and sees you eating a green apple on your 90th birthday and on your 90th birthday you do eat a green apple instead of a red one this didn’t happen because God caused it to happen but rather because he saw you eat the green apple. This is the difference between knowing and causing.

God knows who will respond because he saw them responding not because he caused them to respond. In any case it is God who allows it to happen and not necessarily the cause of it. It is my opinion that we are responsible to freely respond to the call of God.

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Thanks Sax,

I don't see a reason to disagree with you, only to say no, Sir, I’m not trying to say the only means He has to attain foreknowledge is because He forces things in a certain way.

Which by the way I’ll be the first to admit absolute ignorance as to the full range of options the Father has with any given task He places on himself. Even though by the Spirit, we can peer into “the deep things of God”, all too often, you’ll see the mind of man going in the opposite direction.

When the student steps into this study, after a while, you can begin to see the limitation people’s mind will place on God. This subject is just one that is subject to mortal limitation.

For instance, just because from the beginning of creation:

“[H]e holds all things together”, , , “and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins” (Col 1:17; Heb 1:3)

That's all sins, doesn't mean He chooses to run a full working knowledge of every detail of those “things”:

“Then He said, "For now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your only son from Me” (Gen 22:12)

"Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?” Lk 22:48)

Yet, even on earth by His Spirit, as with the woman at the well, sometimes He did:

“Jesus answered and said to him, “Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe?” (Jn 1:50)

So, if using the retrospect with Judas, it could be a completely uniform “might” towards freewill with an option to recover oneself than some folks with predestination are willing to allow.

“From which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place” (Acts 1:25)

But I think there are other areas on this too.

Mike.

You are right. When we think that we have it all covered, it is time to start over. It would be obvious that we went astray somewhere along the way.

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Originally Posted by Saxon

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

With reference to 2 Peter 3:9, is there any one currently in hell that is there by the will of God?

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The arguments of the extremists (Calvinist and Armenian) who prop up their own arguments especially by mutually denying other alternatives... speak of higher will versus actual will. That sort of thing. Rather, God desires all should CHOOSE to come to repentance and not perish. But in order that it be a CHOICE he cannot force the issue one way or the other. And that's why there is life and death to choose from.

But, is there any one currently in hell that is there by the will of God?

Is there any sins in our lives that are against the will of god?.....yes

Is there any sickness and death in the world that are against the will of God? ....yes

Are there outcomes in the lives of men that are against the will of God? .......yes

Does man suffer because of his decision to act against the will of God? ....yes

Is the Lord afraid to judge mankind?....no

Is the wording in the bible about hell being a place of unspeakable suffering a toothless threat?.....no

what has happened in the minds of many men throughout history is that they get mixed up and start to create a god in their own image.
They create a god that is a hostage to his feelings.

what this means is that because we humans tend to swing from one emoution to another, and in doing so become consumed by our feelings along the way , they creat a god who also is subject to great mood swings.
They know "God is Love"....and this is twisted into an idea about god that makes him stuck with this 'love" to the point of being unable to judge....unable to do what is right, if doing what is right would be something that caused anyone any pain at all....

This is due to the idea that some men have that anyone who would cause great pain cant be loving.
And that is due to how such men understand the word "love".


So, the result is that throughout history we have been hearing about a "Gentile Jesus meek and mild" that would NEVER condemn a person to eternal hell fire!
But to support this idea about a meek and non-judging god, these men have to remove the teeth of many Bible verses that clearly show us that God condemns and clearly there are souls lost in hell's eternal fire.

Thus the god these men creat is not just "unwilling" to condemn.....he becomes "unable" to condemn.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

With reference to 2 Peter 3:9, is there any one currently in hell that is there by the will of God? Where have you clearly answered the question?

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Originally Posted by Saxon

Where have you clearly answered the question?

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......above....

Not that I can see.

The answer is "NO". God is not willing that any should perish, be lost and go to hell. God is willing that all should come to repentance, be saved and not go to hell.

Those that are in hell are those that have clearly rejected the will of God.

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Originally Posted by Saxon

The answer is "NO". God is not willing that any should perish, be lost and go to hell. God is willing that all should come to repentance, be saved and not go to hell.

Those that are in hell are those that have clearly rejected the will of God.

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see post #14

I saw it. What about it??