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Originally Posted by
God-free
If you give “it” to God, he’ll take you to heaven. If you don’t, he’ll send you to hell. No difference.
I read a book awhile ago called "The Singer" It is more a poetic narrative than a novel by Calvin Miller. In it was a line that rang true to me "Would you ever send me to hell?" "No. But if you should choose to I could not stop you."
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Of course, your choices are yours to make. But, I’m not asking what choice you would make, and I’m not asking what your reasons for making it would be. The main area of concern (which I’ve stated repeatedly and which everyone here is skirting) is on the coerciveness of each proposition (i.e. Do this or I‘ll hurt you).
Another part of what makes this so difficult is that scene is so tightly framed that it does not allow other facets such as aforementioned motives. If all there is is what you present without taking anything else into account like a Judge barring evidence because of the poisoned tree doctrine then God and the robber are equals in every way. But you ask us to make a moral judgement without knowing the morality of the players. This seems like a hobson's choice or a straw man to me.
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So does the robber.
The robber, also, may have chosen not to load the gun so he wouldn’t have to risk actually killing you.
I’ll leave the scapegoat discussion for another time.
Like you said, it is not germane what he has in his gun it is what he made me believe.
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I’m not familiar with that story. Do you have a link?
I had it always heard it as a story, a modern allegory but I wondered if maybe what I had heard was a retold story based in reality. That has not yet turned out to be true but I found this:
http://benbyerly.wordpress.com/2008/...s-womans-fine/ and there are other as well.
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You’re responsible for your own actions. That’s true. Do you, or does anyone, deserve eternal torment for finite “crimes”? Is that just?
And he’d have no qualms about sending you, and most of humanity, there. That’s monstrous.
How do you know whether he has qualms or not?
Interesting read about fic***ious folks who have made their choice.
Ever read 'Mere Christianity'?
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I would hope so, buy why would you? Isn’t your best friend doing virtually the same thing that God does/will do?
Since we no nothing of the morality of the players it is hard to say.
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If you think it’s a just punishment, then you’re okay with it.
If it is just then I am ok with it, if it is not I am not.
You may find my following at***ude appalling. I lost my mom when I was 15 and my Dad when I was 18. By the time I was 18 I had committed my life to Christ. As I thought about it became worried about my parents spiritually - were they in heaven or hell?!! I began to fear for them actually. What if they did not have the chance to make their choice? What if?!! It was not until I settled on God's judgements are just that I realized that they would have had a chance to choose and it is my hope that they are with Him. I have to say that this is a faith/trust thang.
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As an adult, you know what’s under the sink will probably kill you if you ingest it. Adam and Eve would have been, presumably, child-like in their thinking.
That was a throw back to an earlier reference I made about giving someone a choice between the two. 'Presumably' the one receiving the instruction would understand the consequences of which they were informed.
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That makes a difference, doesn't it? I think it does.
It is interesting to me that you would think that they who were made in God's image were child like in there thinking. What makes you think so?
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In terms of an afterlife, if such a thing were real, it wouldn’t make a difference if you gave the money to the robber and died later vs. not giving him the money and dying now.
As I said earlier, the Robber threatens that which I know and by virtue, threatens my family. God 'threatens' to use your term, to do something in the future life which I cannot see and no threat to my family.