How do YOU

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05-02-2017, 09:50 AM
Christian

How do YOU

Define 'salvation?' 'Salvation' FROM WHAT?

And what do YOU think brings it about?
05-02-2017, 06:34 PM
BigJulie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christian

Define 'salvation?' 'Salvation' FROM WHAT?

And what do YOU think brings it about?

Salvation means (check the dictionary), deliverance from harm. We would define it the same way.

We can be saved from physical death. We can be saved from spiritual death. We can be saved from paying the consequences of our own sins. We can be saved from despair and pain and misery.
05-03-2017, 11:58 AM
Christian

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Salvation means (check the dictionary), deliverance from harm. We would define it the same way.

We can be saved from physical death. We can be saved from spiritual death. We can be saved from paying the consequences of our own sins. We can be saved from despair and pain and misery.

So WHAT spiritual harm do you think BIBLICAL salvation saves you from?

How do you think you 'get' this BIBLICAL salvation?
05-03-2017, 01:19 PM
BigJulie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christian

So WHAT spiritual harm do you think BIBLICAL salvation saves you from?

How do you think you 'get' this BIBLICAL salvation?

There is both physical and spiritual harm.

Physical death (that seems pretty harmful to me) and spiritual death or removal from God.

Salvation from physical death came by the death and resurrection of Christ.

Salvation from spiritual death comes by following Christ.
05-03-2017, 02:06 PM
Christian

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJulie

There is both physical and spiritual harm.

Physical death (that seems pretty harmful to me)

Not at all! Not if you go to be present with God as Paul said HE would. EVERY ONE OF US will physically die.

and spiritual death or removal from God. And EXACTLY WHAT do YOU do to prevent that? Can you "just choose" to do ANYTHING to prevent that?

Salvation from physical death came by the death and resurrection of Christ.

So you think you will never die? Naah, FAITHFUL CHRISTIANS die physically EVERY SINGLE DAY. NOBODY is exempt. ONLY CHRISTIANS will go live with God though, AFTER THEY DIE PHYSICALLY.

Salvation from spiritual death comes by following Christ.

How do you think YOU DO THAT? Can just ANYBODY willy-nilly do that? Why or why not? WHAT must you DO to receive this salvation YOU believe in?
05-03-2017, 10:15 PM
BigJulie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christian

How do you think YOU DO THAT? Can just ANYBODY willy-nilly do that? Why or why not? WHAT must you DO to receive this salvation YOU believe in?

Because of the atonement, we have the freedom to choose to follow God:

Quote:

From the Book of Mormon:

And the Messiah cometh in the fulness of time, that he may redeem the children of men from the fall. And because that they are redeemed from the fall they have become free forever, knowing good from evil; to act for themselves and not to be acted upon, save it be by the punishment of the law at the great and last day, according to the commandments which God hath given.

Wherefore, men are free according to the flesh; and all things are given them which are expedient unto man. And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil; for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself..

To receive salvation from physical death, we don't have to do anything.

To receive salvation from spiritual death, we must come unto Christ and be perfected in him.

Quote:

Also from the Book of Mormon:

Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.

And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.
05-04-2017, 06:50 AM
Christian

big j posted:

'Because of the atonement, we have the freedom to choose to follow God:

How do you explain

John 6:43-44
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
NKJV
and
John 6:64-65
65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
NKJV

????

To receive salvation from physical death, we don't have to do anything.

Do you REALLY THINK you will never physically die?

How do you explain THIS?

Heb 9:27
it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment
NKJV

God has appointed that WE WILL PHYSICALLY DIE unless Jesus returns FIRST

To receive salvation from spiritual death, we must come unto Christ and be perfected in him.

Except that GOD has said (as I recorded above) that ONLY THOSE HE CALLS is ABLE to do that.

The rest?

They are NOT able. It makes no sense to do so for them. Such stuff is foolishness to them. God has not granted to them that they CAN come to Jesus

1 Cor 2:14-15
the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
NKJV

If GOD gives you FAITH IN JESUS, THEN your FAITH is counted as righteousness. Until then your actions are as filthy rags to God.

You CANNOT 'just willy-nilly choose' to come to God by yourself.
05-04-2017, 09:32 AM
BigJulie

[QUOTE=Christian;172974]

Quote:

How do you explain

John 6:43-44

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
NKJV
and
John 6:64-65
65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
NKJV

????

Well, the next verse (45) reads:

It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Quote:

To receive salvation from physical death, we don't have to do anything.

Do you REALLY THINK you will never physically die?

What? I thought this was clear that I was speaking of the resurrection.

Quote:

Except that GOD has said (as I recorded above) that ONLY THOSE HE CALLS is ABLE to do that.

See above.

Quote:

They are NOT able. It makes no sense to do so for them. Such stuff is foolishness to them. God has not granted to them that they CAN come to Jesus

Yes, I get that you believe in a cruel God that is a respecter of persons and chooses whom to save and ****s the rest.

However, scripture contradicts your point of view:

Acts 10: 34 Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Quote:

[/COLOR]1 Cor 2:14-15
the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

True, doesn't mean that God is a respecter of persons.

Quote:

If GOD gives you FAITH IN JESUS, THEN your FAITH is counted as righteousness. Until then your actions are as filthy rags to God.

Yes, the Spirit can only come from God. And yes, it purifies us. This does not mean that God is a respecter of persons. These scriptures do not unto what we are told in other verses.

Quote:

You CANNOT 'just willy-nilly choose' to come to God by yourself.[/COLOR]

Once again, the scriptures contradict your view point.

Matthew 7: 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

I think you are confusing the fact that once we seek, it is the spirit that is given to us that allows us to change...that we don't have the power to give the spirit to ourselves, but certainly, we have the power to seek it and ask for it. You seem to take the idea that the spirit must be given to the extreme that it cannot be asked for, and if sought with humbleness, that God will still not give it---or picking and choosing whom he will.
05-05-2017, 12:14 PM
Christian

[QUOTE=BigJulie;172975][QUOTE=Christian;172974]

Quote:

How do you explain

John 6:43-44

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
NKJV
and
John 6:64-65
65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
NKJV

Well, the next verse (45) reads:

It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Let's try reading it in TODAY'S English shall we?

John 6:44-46
45 It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.
NKJV

WHO is he talking about? OH YES, THOSE OF US WHO HAVE COME TO JESUS. He goes on to say:

"John 6:47-5147 Most ***uredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me (Oh DEAR. . .HE HAS PICKED SOME, BUT NOT ALL PERSONS) has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world."
NKJV

Quote:

To receive salvation from physical death, we don't have to do anything.

Do you REALLY THINK you will never physically die?

What? I thought this was clear that I was speaking of the resurrection.

ALL mankind will be resurrected. Some to righteousness. The rest to ****ation. Are you trying to tell us that ****ATION is "salvation?" It's not.

Yes, I get that you believe in a cruel God that is a respecter of persons and chooses whom to save and ****s the rest.

But YOU must believe in a cruel god that is a respecter of persons and chooses whom to send to celestial, terrestrial, or 'telestial' (a made-up word) or to Hell, or chooses SOME to be 'sons of pardition' (sent to HELL), huh?

However, scripture contradicts your point of view:

Acts 10: 34 Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

God DOES choose between BELIEVERS AND NON-BELIEVERS. He chose who would be HIS OWN BEFORE THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLDS:

Eph 1:3-6
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
NKJV

I know, I know. . .you don't LIKE the word 'predestined' but it is IN THERE.

Will you now tell us that EVERYBODY is a son of God? Jesus told us:

John 8:43-44
3 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do.
NKJV

So EVEN THESE are YOUR brothers? ('sons of YOUR god?). NOT MINE!

Quote:

[/COLOR]1 Cor 2:14-15
the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Quote:

True, doesn't mean that God is a respecter of persons.

But it DOES MEAN that the NATURAL MAN thinks the things of god are foolishness (stupidity) and HE CANNOT UNDERSTAND THEM. GOD WON'T LET HIM.

Perhaps you should re-read your p***age to see what 'respecter of persons' means. HE DOES CHOOSE WHOM HE WILL and DOES NOT CHOOSE OTHERS.

FACE IT. . .NOT EVERYONE IS GOING TO YOUR gOD's 'happy places.' GOD (THE REAL GOD) CHOOSES SOME, NOT OTHERS.

Matt 22:12-14
12 So he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."
NKJV

Quote:

Yes, the Spirit can only come from God. And yes, it purifies us. This does not mean that God is a respecter of persons. These scriptures do not unto what we are told in other verses.

Once again, the scriptures contradict your view point.

Matthew 7: 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

EXACTLY HOW does that contradict the TRUTH that NOT EVERYBODY (NOT THE NATURAL MAN) is CAPABLE of asking or knocking because to MOST FOLKS doing so is stupid or foolishness and makes no sense to them?

I think you are confusing the fact that once we seek, it is the spirit that is given to us that allows us to change...that we don't have the power to give the spirit to ourselves, but certainly, we have the power to seek it and ask for it.

First off, the Holy Spirit is NOT an 'it' but is a "HE."

Secondly, NOT EVERYONE CAN SEEK. The Natural man cannot; it would be stupid for him to do so. THAT IS MOST OF MANKIND IN THE WORLD.

You seem to take the idea that the spirit must be given to the extreme that it cannot be asked for, and if sought with humbleness, that God will still not give it---or picking and choosing whom he will.

Once again, the SPIRIT OF GOD IS NOT AN 'it' BUT IS A "He."

And as before, the TRUTH IS NOT EVERYONE CAN SEEK GOD. . (although he might be able to seek the mormon gods, or the sikkh gods, or the muslim god) The Natural man cannot; it would be stupid for him to do so.
05-08-2017, 03:19 AM
dberrie2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christian

Define 'salvation?' 'Salvation' FROM WHAT?

And what do YOU think brings it about

I believe God's grace brings it about--and God extends this salvational grace, as a personal reception--to them which obey Him:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;[/B]
05-10-2017, 12:18 PM
Phoenix

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christian

How do you think YOU DO THAT?

Read the Bible. It lists lots of things you have to do if you want eternal life. Even certain Christian creeds list a bunch of things you must do in order to be saved. To get on the path that leads to eternal life, the very first things you need to do are:

1. Have faith in Christ.
2. Believe His gospel, the basics of which (the things of first importance) are found in 1 Cor. 15.
3. Repent of sins you have committed.
4. Be baptized for the remission of sins, as Peter commanded.

The Bible goes on to list lots of other things. Jesus told the rich man that in addition to all the commandments he was already keeping, one more thing he needed to do was to give to the poor. Apparently, according to Jesus and the Bible, if you lack charity, all the faith and grace in the world can't save you.

Ultimately, to inherit eternal life you must know God, and the Son whom he sent. And in order to know Them, you must obey them. (St. John wrote that)

Quote:

Can just ANYBODY willy-nilly do that?

Yes, that is part of the GOOD NEWS! ANYONE can be saved. It is possible for every person who is born on this planet to be saved. The Bible says that God is willing that all people come to Him and receive eternal life. The Bible says that God is no respecter of persons, which means that He isn't guilty of favoritism. Everyone who wants to be saved, can be saved. It's up to them whether they accept the gospel, obey Christ's commandments, and inherit eternal life. Jesus, as our advocate or mediator between us and His Father, will do all He can to help those who want help making it back to God's presence.

Quote:

WHAT must you DO to receive this salvation YOU believe in?

I just told you what you must do to get on the path that leads to eternal life. After you get on it, you must stay on it to the end. If you jump off the path before you arrive, you won't arrive there...unless you get back on the path before it's too late.

I think that answered all your questions.
05-11-2017, 06:30 AM
Christian

phoenix posted:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christian
How do you think YOU DO THAT?

Read the Bible.

The BIBLE does not say that FAITH (which IS necessary for salvation) comes by reading the Bible. It is hard enough to get some CHRISTIANS to read their Bibles. WHY would an UNBELIEVER read something that is mere stupidity or foolishness to them, that they cannot understand?

It lists lots of things you have to do if you want eternal life. Even certain Christian creeds list a bunch of things you must do in order to be saved. To get on the path that leads to eternal life, the very first things you need to do are:

1. Have faith in Christ.

Do you think a person can 'just do that willy-nilly' by 'choosing' to do so? Do you think THAT is HOW THE BIBLE SAYS YOU GET FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST.

2. Believe His gospel, the basics of which (the things of first importance) are found in 1 Cor. 15.

That is part of #1.

3. Repent of sins you have committed.

You do that WHEN you HAVE BEEN saved. UNBELIEVERS would have no reason to do so.

4. Be baptized for the remission of sins, as Peter commanded

Done to DISCIPLES (BELIEVERS ONLY), NOT TO UNBELIEVERS). WHY would you 'baptize' someone who does NOT believe in Jesus Christ.

The Bible goes on to list lots of other things. Jesus told the rich man that in addition to all the commandments he was already keeping, one more thing he needed to do was to give to the poor. Apparently, according to Jesus and the Bible, if you lack charity, all the faith and grace in the world can't save you.

BOTH Jesus AND the rich man were JEWS under the OLD TESTAMENT LAW AT THAT POINT IN TIME. Jesus had NOT YET been crucified and resurrected. WE CHRISTIANS are not UNDER the OLD TESTAMENT LAW any more. We are NOT required to take our lambs, doves, rams etc to the priest to pay for our sins.

Ultimately, to inherit eternal life you must know God, and the Son whom he sent. And in order to know Them, you must obey them. (St. John wrote that)

IF John said ANY SUCH THING, SURELY you could provide us with some BIBLICAL REFERENCE? I don't believe John said ANY SUCH THING. I think you are making things up.

Yes, that is part of the GOOD NEWS! ANYONE can be saved. It is possible for every person who is born on this planet to be saved.

Sorry, but that is TOTALLY FALSE! JOHN DID WRITE THAT JESUS DID SAY:

John 6:43-45
43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, "Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
NKJV

Jesus ALSO SAID:

Matt 7:13-14
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
NKJV

SADLY, MOST FOLKS CANNOT find God. Those things are foolishness, stupid and incomprehensible to them:

1 Cor 2:14
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
NKJV

Spiritually DEAD folks (ALL sinners who have NOT received eternal life are in that category) CANNOT come to Jesus UNLESS they were chosen before the beginning of the world.

Eph 1:3-6
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
NKJV

ONLY people who receive faith BY HEARING THE WORD OF GOD can come to Jesus. Others CANNOT.

The Bible says that God is willing that all people come to Him and receive eternal life.

But it ALSO SAYS (above) THAT NOT ALL people are ABLE to come to Him and receive eternal life. ONLY THOSE WHO ARE DRAWN by the Father (John 6:44 [above] John 6:65, etc) CAN come to Him. OTHERS CANNOT FIND the narrow way. Let's face it. . .MOST OF THE WORLD WILL GO TO HELL.

The Bible says that God is no respecter of persons, which means that He isn't guilty of favoritism. Everyone who wants to be saved, can be saved.

At least that is YOUR 'definition' of what it means. Of course, God is speaking of people who ARE ALREADY CHRISTIANS, NOT of atheists, followers of cults, etc etc etc. The Bible refers to TWO TYPES OF FOLKS. . .Slaves to righteousness and slaves to sin. GOD picks HIS sheep. YOU DO NOT.

It's up to them whether they accept the gospel, obey Christ's commandments, and inherit eternal life.

So you think it is UP TO YOU to 'accept' the gospel and it is UP TO YOU to 'DO STUFF' to be saved?
NOT ACCORDING TO GOD:

Eph 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
NKJV

God's GIFT of eternal life is NOT SOMETHING YOU DO. JESUS did it all. UNSAVED SINNERS HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER God for their salvation. Even FAITH is GIVEN AS A GIFT FROM GOD TO SOME, BUT NOT ALL.

Jesus, as our advocate or mediator between us and His Father, will do all He can to help those who want help making it back to God's presence.

So you THINK Jesus might be able to do SOMETHING to 'help' you save yourself? I DON'T THINK SO. . .

I just told you what you must do to get on the path that leads to eternal life. After you get on it, you must stay on it to the end. If you jump off the path before you arrive, you won't arrive there...unless you get back on the path before it's too late.

You have told us some fairytales that contradict what the Bible says. I am sorry for you.
05-12-2017, 05:09 AM
dberrie2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christian

BOTH Jesus AND the rich man were JEWS under the OLD TESTAMENT LAW AT THAT POINT IN TIME. Jesus had NOT YET been crucified and resurrected. WE CHRISTIANS are not UNDER the OLD TESTAMENT LAW any more.

Just a note here, Christian.

Jesus Christ testified the Mosiac Law could not bring eternal life, but Jesus related keeping the commandments with eternal life:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The reason Jesus could do that is because the commandments were present before the Mosiac Law was given:

Genesis 26:4-5---King James Version (KJV)
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

When the Mosaic Law was fulfilled--the commandments remained, as they were part of the gospel Abraham had before the Mosaic Law was added to the gospel:

Galatians 3:19--King James Version (KJV)
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Added to what? Well--the gospel:

Galatians 3:8--King James Version (KJV)
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

That is the reason the commandments remained, and Jesus connected them to eternal life--because they were part of the gospel before Moses received of the Law.
05-12-2017, 05:18 AM
alanmolstad

Quote:

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Just a note here, Christian.

Jesus Christ testified the Mosiac Law could not bring eternal life, but Jesus related keeping the commandments with eternal life:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

also notice Christian:

That this is yet another attempt to hide from the fact that when a person only quotes half a Bible story they end up with only a false teaching...

Twisting the bible to force it to agree with their ideas is the manner of the CULTS.....
05-12-2017, 05:31 AM
dberrie2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post Just a note here, Christian.

Jesus Christ testified the Mosiac Law could not bring eternal life, but Jesus related keeping the commandments with eternal life:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

also notice Christian:

That this is yet another attempt to hide from the fact that when a person only quotes half a Bible story they end up with only a false teaching...

What do you consider false about the Savior's testimony above?

How does it differ from His testimony here?

John 14:15--King James Version (KJV)
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Is that false also?

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version (KJV)
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Revelation 22:14--King James Version (KJV)
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
05-14-2017, 01:53 PM
Christian

Quote:

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

I believe God's grace brings it about--and God extends this salvational grace, as a personal reception--to them which obey Him:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;[/B]

Let's see now. . .ETERNAL SALVATION. . .'PROTECTION FROM HARM' (YOUR definition) FOREVER (ETERNALLY). Do YOU STILL think that 'salvation' is resurrection to ****ation? "Protection from harm' (YOUR definition) to ****ation? THAT MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL.

It is OBVIOUS that your cult has lied to you.
05-14-2017, 02:07 PM
Christian

Just a note to berry

berry posted:

Just a note here, Christian.

Jesus Christ testified the Mosiac Law could not bring eternal life, but Jesus related keeping the commandments with eternal life:

He said 'the commandments' and YOU WRONGLY ***UMED He 'musta always ment' THE TEN. Sometimes (when speaking BEFORE His resurrection from the dead), that IS what He meant since HE WAS A JEWISH MAN, LIVING UNDER THE LAW UNTIL THAT TIME, SPEAKING TO JEWISH MEN WHO LIVED UNDER THE LAW

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The reason Jesus could do that is because the commandments were present before the Mosiac Law was given:

You are ***UMING that because IT FITS YOUR MOLD, nothing more. An apriori ***UMPTION is a logical and Biblical fallacy.

That is the reason the commandments remained, and Jesus connected them to eternal life--because they were part of the gospel before Moses received of the Law.

IF the TEN commandments (and NOT the 2+ Commands [That is what the NT word MEANS IN THE GREEK] were what Jesus was referring to
Then

WHY

DO

YOU

NOT

KEEP THE SABBATH? SA****AY HAS SINCE RECORDED TIME REMAINED THE SEVENTH DAY of the week, The SABBATH.

WHY DOES YOUR RELIGIOUS CULT NOT KEEP ALL of the 10 commandments IF YOU THINK WE ARE UNDER THEM?

Did joe smith 'just forget' the Sabbath?

GOD didn't forget it.

PAUL tells us:

Gal 2:19-21
19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."
NKJV

IF YOU THINK you are 'righteous' by keeping 'ordinances' (law), you are contradicting what the APOSTLE OF GOD, PAUL, SAID. You may keep all of the 'law' you wish and you will NOT GAIN FAVOR WITH GOD AT ALL. You will still end up in hell; You have NOTHING TO OFFER GOD but FILTHY RAGS. (Isaiah 64:6)

We CHRISTIANS DO OBEY JESUS' COMMANDS. BOTH of them. We love God and we love our neighbors. THAT obedience 'covers' ALL of the 10 commandments EXCEPT KEEPING THE SABBATH.

I worship God on days that end with 'y' like SUNDAy and MONDAy and TUESDAy, etc. In other words, EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Your religion needs to find the 'narrow gate' and start serving the REAL Jesus CHRIST, the REAL GOD, NOT some 'strange' god who has sex with his 'goddesses' who pop out 'spirit babies' like your 'jesus' and your 'satan.'

Sorry for the sarcasm but it sounds pretty ANTIBIBLICAL to me since GOD tells us:

John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
ESV

Sorry but the REAL GOD, (not the mormon, krishna, or islamic gods) fathered ONLY ONE Son, the REAL Jesus Christ. JESUS CREATED the angels INCLUDING SATAN AND THE OTHERS THAT FELL. The REAL satan IS NOT A "spirit-brother" to the REAL JESUS at all.

It looks like your religious cult fed you ANOTHER LINE OF LIES.
05-15-2017, 06:51 AM
dberrie2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christian

He said 'the commandments' and YOU WRONGLY ***UMED He 'musta always ment' THE TEN.

Since Jesus connected the specific commandments which were included in the ten here--then He also included the ten commandments:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The fact is--that defies faith alone theology--end of story.
05-18-2017, 01:45 PM
Phoenix

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christian

Let's see now. . .ETERNAL SALVATION. . .'PROTECTION FROM HARM' (YOUR definition) FOREVER (ETERNALLY). Do YOU STILL think that 'salvation' is resurrection to ****ation? "Protection from harm' (YOUR definition) to ****ation? THAT MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL.

Actually, it makes a lot of sense to those who understand the following from the Bible:

1. Resurrection is a free gift that Christ, who has power over death, gives to all people who are born and who die.

2. Resurrection is one kind of salvation--being saved--from the permanence of physical death. Thanks to Jesus, none of us will have to spend forever as disembodied spirits after we die. Even if a person was wicked, and ends up sentenced to condemnation (called ****ation in the KJV), it is better to have a body than to NOT have one--just ask the demons called "Legion."

Part of Jesus' resurrection and atonement gave all of us the free gift of being resurrected someday. Protestants should understand how generous it was of Jesus to give all of us an UNCONDITIONAL gift.

In Rev. you can read John's vision of the first and second resurrections. By the time Judgment Day arrives, all of us will have been resurrected.

Quote:

It is OBVIOUS that your cult has lied to you.

To people who know the Bible and who see the truth in what I just wrote, it is obvious that you don't have a good understanding of resurrection and/or the Bible. I have no way of knowing whether that is because your cult has lied to you, or whether you just arrived at some incorrect ideas on your own.