Originally Posted by
Walrus
My point is not to avail you evidence to prove that the BoM is true...no such evidence COULD exist other a personal eyewitness account of the entire process...by your standards. It is by the Spirit of God that you may know ALL things, yet if your brow is br*** and your neck stiff, so it cannot look to the rght or to the left...then your understanding will be lacking.
The point was to show that the 'jump to conclusions' method behind BoM critics have been systematically deminished.
Convenient that one can stand on one point of fact, (Central america can't sustain large populations as stated in the Book of Mormon) until evidence comes out to cut it short. Then the 'ultimate lack of evidence' switches to some other aspect while the point that the populations noted ARE valid, are snuffed off as an unimportant topic of discussion. OOOhhhh, well of course, it was a big deal before the Tierra Preta discovery, but it isn't anymore because mentioning it only VALIDATES the BoM.
Think. The Sword of Laban was finely crafted sword crafted in Jeruselem by a master craftsman (by the description of it). That sword becomes a hierloom to the king. It's steel is strong, unmatched in battle. Awesome to have a 1000 of those! You have novice metalsmiths beating metals into the same shape. It would be ludicrous to ***ume that they were able to replicate the process. One would ***ume that time and resources would have been invested in that which they could produce with the resources and knowledge available. Why didn't God help them? He did. Read the Book of Mormon. He inspired leaders and stregthened the minds and hearts of the people. You need not rely on steel to win a battle.
Battle tactics..another GREAT point. Very specific type of warfare, completely different from 1800 century combat with which Joseph Smith was familiar. Guerilla type stuff. Digging of ditches, building of ramparts, walls, and towers...all very specific and not common to EVERY part of the world and in every country. Such tactics and evidences are found in the time line, and area of central America. Not proof noooo...not proof. I reallly reaalllly interesting correlation of events, time and place, though.
Nor was my point to say there is evidence of steel swords, but that, unknowingly 0to Joseph Smith, 'stained swords' has applicable context.
You act as though all cultures and all cities and all there is to be known is known. They havnt lookied at half the ruins in Central America and nor do they have a clear picture of what they HAVE looked at.
I don't think the "Nephites" were THE Mayan. It's pretty clear when Laman and Nephite split up...and the Nephits are super industrious and prosperous and expanding and growing...while the Lamanites are lazy and primitive and unindustrious and yet are able to come in with 4x the man power, that the lamanites and nephites were not alone. If you had a 'fairer race' of people that kept their commandments, intermarried amonst themselves, keep their faith, didn't mix with others of other faiths, versus a brother race that didn't care, and just mated and mixed and adopted whatever practice or custom they enjoyed, and that other culture was of darker skin...then it would be easy to see how one group would eventually turn darker and the one would remain lighter skinned.
If the nephites were always outnumbered by lamanites (and lamanites are simply combined with all those who are not followers of God, or as enemies to the nephites) then by doing some basic algebra we come to the conclusion that there was a large population of non-nephi/laman descent. You introduce a race unto a contenent where they are the minority, wait a 1000 years, and wish yourself luck finding them. It's not scientifically plausable that you would find them.
Did the 'church' as described in the BoM always have full control over the population? No..almost never...at best a government was established that insured religious freedom and/or the leader happened to be a righteous one. So what are we looking for? At best, remnants of the religion as described in the Book of Mormon. If all the believers in Christ were hunted down and killed, I doubt anything left in plain sight would be preserved. Again, with the account given, what can we erally expect to find? A temple with the 10 commandments? Again..the anti-culture would have dismantled or destroyed any traces of it...the only thing that would remain are allusions to doctrines..not whole and tarnished by man's wisdom.