How can they believe mormonism?

Where did the first man who became a god in mormonism originate? How can the mormon jesus be a spirit-brother to satan, according to their teachings? Where do the other real gods come from in light of the Bible's Isaiah 43:10 since we KNOW that came from God (even joseph smith admitted that much. . .)?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Christian

How can the mormon jesus be a spirit-brother to satan, according to their teachings?

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Because all spirits are the offspring of God the Father:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Christian--if you believe there is another God that Fathers spirits--could you reveal Him to us?

Christ testified that He and mankind also shared the same Father--in the spirit:

John 20:17--King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Hebrews 2:10-11---King James Version (KJV)
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

berrie posted:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Christian [IMG]http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png[/IMG]
How can the mormon jesus be a spirit-brother to satan, according to their teachings?

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Because all spirits are the offspring of God the Father:[/QUOTE]

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Christian--if you believe there is another God that Fathers spirits--could you reveal Him to us?

Sorry berry, but Jesus was God IN THE BEGINNING, and IS GOD. (John 1:1-2, 14)

HE took on flesh and TOOK ON THE FORM OF A man. HIS Spirit did not have to BE 'fathered' at all.

Phil 2:7-8
made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
NKJV

JESUS created everything that was created, INCLUDING THE ANGELS, of which satan is one of the fallen ones.

John 1:3-4
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
NKJV



That is JESUS.

You ought to get to know Him. . .

Christ testified that He and mankind also shared the same Father--in the spirit:


John 20:17--King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Hebrews 2:10-11---King James Version (KJV)
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Not one word about Jesus. . .in the spirit at all. Why do you tell these whoppers?

Of course NOT ONE WORD OF THESE P***AGES HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH JOE SMITH, your 'prophet.' He just made HIS VERSION up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Because all spirits are the offspring of God the Father:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Christian--if you believe there is another God that Fathers spirits--could you reveal Him to us?

Christ testified that He and mankind also shared the same Father--in the spirit:

John 20:17--King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Hebrews 2:10-11---King James Version (KJV)
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Christian

[COLOR=#0000ff]HE took on flesh and TOOK ON THE FORM OF A man. HIS Spirit did not have to BE 'fathered' at all.

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Whether His spirit "had" to be Fathered is a hypothetical question--Christ testified His spirit was Fathered by God the Father:

John 20:17--King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

And that spirits were Fathered by God the Father:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Was that some of man's spirits--or all of them? If not all--please reveal the other God who is responsible for the remainder.

Acts 17:29---King James Version (KJV)
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Christ testified that He and mankind also shared the same Father--in the spirit:

John 20:17--King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Hebrews 2:10-11---King James Version (KJV)
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Christian

[Not one word about Jesus. . .in the spirit at all.

---

Since Jesus did not share the same Father in the flesh, as He was unique in that Jesus was the only one to ever been born to this earth with a heavenly Father and an earthly mother, in the flesh--what else could the references be to, except the spirits?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Since Jesus did not share the same Father in the flesh, as He was unique in that Jesus was the only one to ever been born to this earth with a heavenly Father and an earthly mother, in the flesh--what else could the references be to, except the spirits?

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You FORGET that John 3:16 says Jesus is the ONLY begotten (fathered) SON OF GOD ANYWHERE. There are no 'spirit babies,' or 'mama goddesses' in heaven. Your cultic leader invented all of those things from his own imagination!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Since Jesus did not share the same Father in the flesh, as He was unique in that Jesus was the only one to ever been born to this earth with a heavenly Father and an earthly mother, in the flesh--what else could the references be to, except the spirits?

---

You FORGET that John 3:16 says Jesus is the ONLY begotten (fathered) SON OF GOD ANYWHERE. There are no 'spirit babies,' or 'mama goddesses' in heaven. Your cultic leader invented all of those things from his own imagination!

John 3:16-17
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
NKJV

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post Since Jesus did not share the same Father in the flesh, as He was unique in that Jesus was the only one to ever been born to this earth with a heavenly Father and an earthly mother, in the flesh--what else could the references be to, except the spirits?

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Christian

You FORGET that John 3:16 says Jesus is the ONLY begotten (fathered) SON OF GOD ANYWHERE.

---

That is true, for the simple reason listed above in my post--Jesus Christ was the only One to ever been born to this earth with a Heavenly Father--and an earthly mother--in the flesh:

John 1:14---King James Version (KJV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Not true, as to the spirit--as God the Son claimed the same God and Father as mankind--as to the spirit:

John 20:17--King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

The scriptures testify spirits are the offspring of God the Father:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Was that some of man's spirits--or all of them? If not all--please reveal the other God who is responsible for the remainder.

Acts 17:29---King James Version (KJV)
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

berrie posted:

That is true, for the simple reason listed above in my post--Jesus Christ was the only One to ever been born to this earth with a Heavenly Father--and an earthly mother--in the flesh:

The p***age says no such thing. Joey smith tried to TWIST it to pretend it was so. No 'earthly mother in the flesh' has anything to do with what the p***age SAYS. Your false gods simply don't fit what the BIBLE says.

John 1:14---King James Version (KJV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Not true, as to the spirit--as God the Son claimed the same God and Father as mankind--as to the spirit:

NOT TRUE? OF COURSE IT IS TRUE. He is the ONLY begotten of the Father, the ONLY one FATHERED by the Father. Your 'other gods' are all FALSE gods.

You are still floundering. We CHRISTIANS are sons of God. . .through ADOPTION, not through 'spirit-mommy-baby-spirit-birth.'

Eph 1:3-6
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
NKJV

Children who are FATHERED (BEGOTTEN) by their fathers don't have to be ADOPTED. They ARE BY DEFINITION children of their father.

IF God had to get 'mommy goddesses' pregnant to pop out 'spirit children' by the gazillions, you might be right.

I have 2 sons with children they did not beget themselves. Those sons and daughters still consider my sons to be their 'father' even though they all know my sons are not their 'bio-dads.'

We CHRISTIANS are the offspring of God through ADOPTION as sons, not through any imaginary 'spirit-mommy-baby-spirit-birth' process.

JESUS is the ONLY begotten (fathered) Son of God. Not imaginary 'spirit babies.'

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

That is true, for the simple reason listed above in my post--Jesus Christ was the only One to ever been born to this earth with a Heavenly Father--and an earthly mother--in the flesh:

John 1:14---King James Version (KJV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Not true, as to the spirit--as God the Son claimed the same God and Father as mankind--as to the spirit:

John 20:17--King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

The scriptures testify spirits are the offspring of God the Father:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Was that some of man's spirits--or all of them? If not all--please reveal the other God who is responsible for the remainder.

Acts 17:29---King James Version (KJV)
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Christian

The p***age says no such thing. Joey smith tried to TWIST it to pretend it was so.

---

Sorry, but "joey smith" had nothing to do with what the NT writers bore testimony to:

John 1:14---King James Version (KJV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Quote:

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NOT TRUE? OF COURSE IT IS TRUE. He is the ONLY begotten of the Father, the ONLY one FATHERED by the Father.

---

That's just my point. The Only Begotten--in the flesh. IOW--the Only One to ever have been Fathered here, on Earth--in the Flesh--which had an earthly mother and a Heavenly Father.

Not true, as to spirits:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Sorry, but "joey smith" had nothing to do with what the NT writers bore testimony to:

John 1:14---King James Version (KJV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.



That's just my point. The Only Begotten--in the flesh. IOW--the Only One to ever have been Fathered here, on Earth--in the Flesh--which had an earthly mother and a Heavenly Father.

Not true, as to spirits:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

---

Last I heard, 'begotten' simply means 'fathered,' NOT 'fathered on earth.'

I find it telling that you try to REDEFINE the term to force it into your own mouldy mold. That shows the fallacy and weakness of your religious claim.
The TRUTH IS that JESUS IS THE ONLY CHILD FATHERED BY GOD, not a gaggle of 'spirit babies' as your cult has invented.

There are no exceptions. Your cult is polytheistic. . .CHRISTIANITY is not.

[QUOTE=dberrie2000;170025]Because all spirits are the offspring of God the Father:

IF we were all the offspring of God the Father as your 'spirit babies' popped out of goddesses impregnated by joey smith or others. . WHY WOULD GOD THE FATHER NEED TO ADOPT US? Since WHEN are the natural children of parents THEN ADOPTED BY THEM? Your reasoning skills are lacking. So is your SCRIPTURE.

Gal 4:3-5
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
NKJV

​I guess you must think Paul was a liar, huh?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post Sorry, but "joey smith" had nothing to do with what the NT writers bore testimony to:

John 1:14---King James Version (KJV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

That's just my point. The Only Begotten--in the flesh. IOW--the Only One to ever have been Fathered here, on Earth--in the Flesh--which had an earthly mother and a Heavenly Father.

Not true, as to spirits:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Christian

[COLOR=#0000cd]Last I heard, 'begotten' simply means 'fathered,' NOT 'fathered on earth.'

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Since Mary was the mother of Jesus--and she resided on planet earth--where do you believe Jesus was Fathered?

Quote:

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The TRUTH IS that JESUS IS THE ONLY CHILD FATHERED BY GOD,

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That is true--as far as the flesh goes. Jesus Christ was the only One to ever been born to this earth, in the flesh--which had an earthly mother--and a Heavenly Father.

Quote:

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not a gaggle of 'spirit babies' as your cult has invented.

---

You might want to relate that to the NT writers, as they testify God the Father is the Father of spirits:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

berry posted:

Since Mary was the mother of Jesus--and she resided on planet earth--where do you believe Jesus was Fathered?

You mean when the HOLY SPIRIT came upon her?
The ONLY BEGOTTEN Son is the ONLY SON THE FATHER FATHERED. . .BY DEFINITION.

Your whine is nothing more than a whiney excuse for your cult's aberrant claim.

That is true--as far as the flesh goes. Jesus Christ was the only One to ever been born to this earth, in the flesh--which had an earthly mother--and a Heavenly Father.

EXACTLY WHERE IN THE BIBLE does it say "fathered by God 'on this earth?'" It doesn't, of course, your theory goes back into the toilet where it belongs.

You might want to relate that to the NT writers, as they testify God the Father is the Father of spirits:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

LETS SEE NOW. . .

John 1:3-5
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
NKJV


Let's see now. . .Jesus MADE satan and Jesus MADE the angels, and Jesus MADE the spirits. . .so that makes JESUS the FATHER OF SPIRITS. You didn't understand that one. . .OBVIOUSLY!

Jesus is God. Jesus is the Father of Spirits. And YOUR cult's theory falls back into the pit
with the rest of the dung, as I pointed out.

berry posted:

Since Mary was the mother of Jesus--and she resided on planet earth--where do you believe Jesus was Fathered?

You mean when the HOLY SPIRIT came upon her?
The ONLY BEGOTTEN Son is the ONLY SON THE FATHER FATHERED. . .BY DEFINITION.

Your whine is nothing more than a whiney excuse for your cult's aberrant claim.

That is true--as far as the flesh goes. Jesus Christ was the only One to ever been born to this earth, in the flesh--which had an earthly mother--and a Heavenly Father.

EXACTLY WHERE IN THE BIBLE does it say "fathered by God 'on this earth?'" It doesn't, of course, your theory goes back into the toilet where it belongs.

You might want to relate that to the NT writers, as they testify God the Father is the Father of spirits:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

LETS SEE NOW. . .

John 1:3-5
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
NKJV


Let's see now. . .Jesus MADE satan and Jesus MADE the angels, and Jesus MADE the spirits. . .so that makes JESUS the FATHER OF SPIRITS. You didn't understand that one. . .OBVIOUSLY!

Jesus is God. Jesus is the Father of Spirits. And YOUR cult's theory falls back into the pit with the rest of the dung, as I pointed out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Christian

[COLOR=#0000ff]You mean when the HOLY SPIRIT came upon her?
The ONLY BEGOTTEN Son is the ONLY SON THE FATHER FATHERED. . .BY DEFINITION.

Your whine is nothing more than a whiney excuse for your cult's aberrant claim.

---

My question is what explanation do you have for your post?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Christian View Post[COLOR=#0000cd]Last I heard, 'begotten' simply means 'fathered,' NOT 'fathered on earth.'

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Again--if you don't believe Jesus was Fathered here on this earth--where do you believe He was Fathered? If Mary was not Jesus' mother--who was?

Quote:

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EXACTLY WHERE IN THE BIBLE does it say "fathered by God 'on this earth?'" It doesn't, of course, your theory goes back into the toilet where it belongs.

---

Again--if you don't believe God the Father was the Father of Jesus Christ--and Mary was His mother--then who? If not this earth--then where?

1 Peter 1:3---King James Version (KJV)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

John 20:17---King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Quote:

---

Let's see now. . .Jesus MADE satan and Jesus MADE the angels, and Jesus MADE the spirits. . .so that makes JESUS the FATHER OF SPIRITS. You didn't understand that one. . .OBVIOUSLY!

Jesus is God. Jesus is the Father of Spirits. And YOUR cult's theory falls back into the pit with the rest of the dung, as I pointed out.

---

Again--the Bible does not attribute the Fathering of spirits to Jesus--as He and the scriptures testified to:

John 20:17---King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Ephesians 4:4-6---King James Version (KJV)
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

dberry posted:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Christian [IMG]http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png[/IMG]
[COLOR=#333333]You mean when the HOLY SPIRIT came upon her?
The ONLY BEGOTTEN Son is the ONLY SON THE FATHER FATHERED. . .BY DEFINITION.

Your whine is nothing more than a whiney excuse for your cult's aberrant claim.

---

My question is what explanation do you have for your post?

You haven't answered MY question regarding John 3:16. . .it doesn't MATTER WHERE Jesus was fathered, the p***age says HE IS THE ONLY ONLY ONE EVER FATHERED ANYWHERE, not just here on earth as you pretend. . .thus eliminating your cult's imaginary 'spirit babies' etc. You are STILL RUNNING AWAY from the REAL Question.

WHY SHOULD WE BELIEVE YOUR CULT'S FALSE TEACHING?

You are still RUNNING AWAY FROM THE PERTINENT QUESTION by trying to change subjects. . .a cowardly way out imho.

The word "begotten" has NOTHING TO DO WITH "WHERE." Your ignorance is showing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Christian

[COLOR=#0000cd]You haven't answered MY question regarding John 3:16. . .it doesn't MATTER WHERE Jesus was fathered, the p***age says HE IS THE ONLY ONLY ONE EVER FATHERED ANYWHERE,

---

I don't see any such doctrine taught in the scriptures.

Jesus Christ was the Only Begotten in the flesh, yes.

That principle is not true, as to the spirit:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

So--is that some spirits--or all spirits? If just some--then could you reveal to us what God is the Father of the remainder?

Ephesians 4:4-6---King James Version (KJV)
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

I don't see any such doctrine taught in the scriptures.

Jesus Christ was the Only Begotten in the flesh, yes.

That principle is not true, as to the spirit:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

So--is that some spirits--or all spirits? If just some--then could you reveal to us what God is the Father of the remainder?

Ephesians 4:4-6---King James Version (KJV)
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

---

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten (fathered) Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
NKJV


Jesus is the ONLY FATHERED SON ANYWHERE, not just in the flesh, not just on earth (He is in HEAVEN at the right hand of the Father now. . .)

That means that all of your false god's imaginary 'spirit babies' MUST BE FEMALE.

Of course joe smith never thought about THAT when he invented his theory.

And since Jesus IS GOD, WHO do you think the father of that 'all' is? WHO CREATED ALL? (See John 1:3 for the answer to that one. . .)

Of course. . .JESUS DID!

Your cult has lied to you . . .AGAIN!!!!

And YOU drank the kool-aid!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post I don't see any such doctrine taught in the scriptures.

Jesus Christ was the Only Begotten in the flesh, yes.

That principle is not true, as to the spirit:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

So--is that some spirits--or all spirits? If just some--then could you reveal to us what God is the Father of the remainder?

Ephesians 4:4-6---King James Version (KJV)
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Christian

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten (fathered) Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
NKJV
[COLOR=#0000CD]Jesus is the ONLY FATHERED SON ANYWHERE, not just in the flesh, not just on earth (He is in HEAVEN at the right hand of the Father now. . .)

---

That Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten in the flesh--I don't believe anyone has argued.

That God the Father is the Father of all spirits--is a truth testified to by the Biblical scriptures:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

What is there about that testimony you don't believe?

As the scriptures confirm:

6 One God and Father of all,

Not just some--all. IOW--all spirits share the same Father. Only Christ, in the flesh, had a heavenly Father. All the rest of mankind after the Fall--in the flesh--had two earthly parents.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

That Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten in the flesh--I don't believe anyone has argued.

That God the Father is the Father of all spirits--is a truth testified to by the Biblical scriptures:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

What is there about that testimony you don't believe?

As the scriptures confirm:

6 One God and Father of all,

Not just some--all. IOW--all spirits share the same Father. Only Christ, in the flesh, had a heavenly Father. All the rest of mankind after the Fall--in the flesh--had two earthly parents.

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According to John 3:16, Jesus is the ONLY FATHERED SON OF GOD ANYWHERE. Not just limited with YOUR ARTIFICIAL LIMITATION of 'in the flesh' garbage. Since Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are all three PERSONS OF ONE GOD,
your p***age agrees with what I have said.

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Because all spirits are the offspring of God the Father:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Christian--if you believe there is another God that Fathers spirits--could you reveal Him to us?

Christ testified that He and mankind also shared the same Father--in the spirit:

John 20:17--King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Hebrews 2:10-11---King James Version (KJV)
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

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Nonsense

Can you explain to us why then, Mosiah chapter 5 verse 7 insists that we are "spiritually" begotten and "become" sons and daughters of Christ by having faith in "HIS NAME?"

Mosiah 5:

7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.

Could the most correct book on earth (according to Joseph Smith) be wrong? Or is it that you just don't believe it?

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Originally Posted by Berean

Nonsense

Can you explain to us why then, Mosiah chapter 5 verse 7 insists that we are "spiritually" begotten and "become" sons and daughters of Christ by having faith in "HIS NAME?"

Mosiah 5:

7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.

Could the most correct book on earth (according to Joseph Smith) be wrong? Or is it that you just don't believe it?

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That is a reference to the adoption--years after the spirit has been in the body--and the physical body also having a previous father.

The adoption does not account for the origins of the spirit, nor the physical body--or the fact both the spirit and the body having a previous Father (father)--prior to the adoption.

Berean--an adoption cannot occur unless there is a previous Father(father).

IOW--we have a physical father to account for our physical body--and a previous Father to account for our spirits--years PRIOR TO the adoption.

The adoption does not account for the origins of the physical body--nor the origins of our spirit--as they were present years prior to the adoption.

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dberrie2000

That is a reference to the adoption--years after the spirit has been in the body--and the physical body also having a previous father.

The adoption does not account for the origins of the spirit, nor the physical body--or the fact both the spirit and the body having a previous Father (father)--prior to the adoption.

Berean--an adoption cannot occur unless there is a previous Father(father).

IOW--we have a physical father to account for our physical body--and a previous Father to account for our spirits--years PRIOR TO the adoption.

The adoption does not account for the origins of the physical body--nor the origins of our spirit--as they were present years prior to the adoption.

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

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Let's see now. . .you want your 'god' to RE-adopt the so-called 'spirit children' that he himself supposedly FATHERED HIMSELF?

Did YOUR natural daddy have to 'adopt' you to make you a member of HIS family?

PURE NONSENSICAL HERESY. That is all you have.

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Originally Posted by Christian

[COLOR=#0000cd]Let's see now. . .you want your 'god' to RE-adopt the so-called 'spirit children' that he himself supposedly FATHERED HIMSELF?

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A couple of points here:

1) There is no such things as a "re-adoption"

2) The adoption is not to God the Father--but to Jesus Christ:

Galatians 3:27-29---King James Version (KJV)
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The adoption is to Jesus Christ--as we are adopted into the seed of Abraham--and made partakers of the promise, through that lineage--as Christ came through the lineage of Abraham:

Hebrews 2:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

There is no reason to be adopted to God the Father--He is already our Father.

An adoption can only occur if there is a previous Father--and God the Father is already the Father.

The reason there has to be an adoption to Jesus Christ is because He is neither the father of our flesh--nor the Father of our spirit.

Jesus Christ shares the same God and Father as we do, and all spirits share:

John 20:17---King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


IOW--Jesus Christ is not the Father of spirits--nor is He the father of our flesh:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Since there is already a previous father of our flesh--and a previous Father of our spirit--then there can be an adoption--and that adoption is to Jesus Christ--who then becomes the everlasting Father:

Isaiah 9:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.