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Originally Posted by
MacG
Would the thief have done those things without faith?
Exactly my point Mag---faith without works is dead--even for the thief.
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It was grace that saved through his faith.
But the infant who dies is saved without faith or works. So, truly is always grace that saves us alone and not what WE do (whether it be faith our grace). But, what is faith really? Isn't is just a belief in Christ and what He says. Doesn't faith just mean that we follow Christ and do what He asks?
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Of genuine faith, righteous works of obedience out of gra***ude follow.
Yes, because we believe Christ and as such, follow Him out of gra***ude. I agree.
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It is faith that grants us the key to the door of heaven after the separation of the sheep and goats,
Yes, but if faith opens the door to grace, then isn't works an integral part of faith as faith without works is dead?
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If it was works that saved in the name of serving God, keeping the statutes to a tee the Saducees and Pharisees would still have the keys to the Kingdom, as it turned out the keys were given to Peter.
Yes, if is neither faith nor works (as they are intertwined) that saves us, but merely grace. Therefore, it is not our works that save us---nor our faith (both being imperfect together), but grace alone. Wouldn't you agree? (This is why Christ states that they, those who don't have faith, do the WORKS of iniquity---seeing as they did not have faith.)
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By now you have read: it is by grace through faith (and that not of yourselves) that you have been saved and not of works otherwise we could boast. Clearly this was written to living people who have not yet reached the Bema seat. They have been saved with no waiting around to see if they did all they could do. For if they had sinned once after faith, they did not do all they could have done.
What do you think Christ means when He tells us the great commandment is to love God with ALL of our heart, ALL of our mind and ALL of our strength? Wouldn't those who love God do ALL they can do as He asks? Christ understands that even the faithful have imperfect faith---which is why when Peter walked on water and then fell, he said "ye of little faith"---our works match our faith. Our works are imperfect precisely because our faith is imperfect. Therefore, it is ALWAYS grace that saves. That said--as we strive to follow God with all of our heart, mind, and strength--HE perfects us. This is called santification.
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you can never do enough, be good enough to approach the throne, it is by grace we have been restored,
agree!
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I suppose the evaluative question is are the works borne of faith (thief on the cross, whom I am sure was grateful) or of guilt (fig leaves, works to cover self, CYA, in Adam's case, literally). In either case Paul tells us works do not save.
Yes, Paul makes it clear we are saved by grace.
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For the unsaved they help to cover the sense of shame but do nothing to save. James is telling us that they are an evaluative tool which points to someone may be of faith (Judas had works) versus one who says they have faith but out of whom works of righteousness do not proceed. There is no gra***ude, no works, no faith, still dead in their sins. Sometimes it is difficult to tell our motives. The heart is decitfully wicked above all things.
Isn't that what God's grace gives--a change of heart?