What evidence 'backs up' ANYTHING in the book of mormon?
mormons have ONLY THE WORD OF JOE SMITH that EVEN ONE EVENT, PERSON, or PLACE in the book of mormon ever existed.
Do they think that GOD expects them to have 'blind' faith in joe smith?
Jesus and the apostles always gave REASONS to believe. . .stuff from the OT that the Jews ALREADY KNEW TO BE FROM GOD
NOTHING in the bom is 'supported' by ANY PHYSICAL EVIDENCE ANYWHERE
There are
No plates
No witnesses to the text
No way to 'check smith's 'translation''
No artifacts
No 'reformed Egyptian anything'
NOTHING TO SUBSTANTIATE any REALITY to smith' fairytales. . .
WHY do you suppose that is?
It was all joey smith's IMAGINATION, nothing more.
What joey had was NOT the Biblical urim OR thumin. What joe had was a peepstone and a hat. NEITHER was used to 'translate' anything at all in the BIBLE.
More 'trashing' of Biblical stuff that joey smith PRETENDED TO DO/HAVE.
The TRUTH is STILL NONEof the book of mormon events, peoples, or places seems to have existed outside of joe smith's IMAGINATION.
And that must have gone 'poof' and disappeared too!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dberrie2000
How does the presence of a seer stone somehow cover up or cancel out the fact Joseph Smith also was in possession of the Urim and Thummim?
As Joseph Smith testified to--he started out using the Urim and Thummim--but it was very cumbersome to bear--and the translation could only be conducted in a short spurts at a time, as he tired of the weight quickly.
As Joseph Smith's skills increased, he found he could use other objects, such as a seer stone--to receive revelation in the translation process, which accelerated the translation process. He later found he could use his own mind as a means to receive revelation.
SUCH NONSENSE! HOW STUPID do you have to be to believe such SUPERS***IOUS JUNK RELIGION? Doesn't the mere fact that your religion has to stoop to such low levels of SUPERS***ION tell you something about joey and his trash? :rolleyes:
And I suppose his 'urim and thummin' went 'poof' and disappeared too, so nobody could check its authenticity as an ancient artifact?
It figures. Typical smith trash religious behavior. Invent something to talk about, then 'poof.'
The conman 'lost' it all. The plates, the urim & thummim, AND 'reformed Egyptian.'
berry posted:
What do you consider as "nonsense", "stupid", supers***ious", or "trash" about the reality of the Urim and Thummim?
About the REAL urim and thummim? NOTHING. About your claim and joey smith's claim? ALL OF YOUR BASELESS JUNK RELIGIOUS CLAIMS.
Have you had any proof offered you of the Urim and Thummim--which was present in the OT? How about the Ark of the Covenant?
I have had point after point after point of the BIBLE confirmed to be TRUE by God's Holy Spirit, BY THE WORD OF GOD(THE BIBLE), and by a MOUNTAIN of evidence ranging from mathematical probabilites to evidence that the people, places, and events of the Bible EXISTED IN THE REAL WORLD.
NONE OF WHICH JOEY SMITH'S BOM HAS. ALL IT HAS IS THE IMAGINATION OF JOEY SMITH and 'vanished plates, vanished urim and thummim, FALSE CLAIMS about professor Anthon, and CONTRADICTIONS between smithy's doctrines and GOD (inspired in THE BIBLE, GOD'S WORD)
Sorry berry, but your conman's 'convenient disappearing act' with all of his 'stuff' shows that smith was a fraud. And as P.T. Barnum once said of people like you. . ."there's a sucker born every minute!"
All of joey's stuff. . .'poof!' disappears!
Berry posted:
I believe it--and the Biblical text testifies to the reality of the Urim and Thummim:
[COLOR=#0000cd]
YES THE BIBLE DOES testify to the reality of the Urim and Thummim; JUST NOT THAT THE ROCK IN JOEY SMITH'S HAT BEING the urim and thummim. ALL joey had in his hat was a rock. No urim or thummim anywhere in joey's possession.
Joey was 'talking through his hat' (telling fairytales) when he was gazing at his peepstone.
SUPERS***IOUS NONSENSE, NOT BIBLICAL IN ANY WAY.
joey was a fraud, a shyster, a known peepstone gazer, a common criminal and a heretic.
Nothing more.
NOBODY ANYWHERE EVER 'translated' text by peeping at a rock in his hat.
Joey smith's dishonest word is all you have regarding ANY of your 'mormon-specific' junk.
And anything resembling 'evidence' of it outside of his head. . .'poof!' disappears.
You have no plates to check the translation of
You have no 'reformed Egyptian' to check it with
You have no 'urim & thummim' to show us
You have NOT ONE SINGLE WORD translated by anyone else to vouch for joey's translation.
NOTHING.
ALL you have is the conman joey smith's word that it ever REALLY existed!.
Joey's junk always goes 'poof' and disappears.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dberrie2000
Please allow me to refresh your memory of what your post focused on:
Again--the authenticity and reality of the Urim and Thummim can be verified through the Biblical witness--and it is not supers***ion:
Exodus 28:30---King James Version (KJV)
30 And thou shalt put in the breastplate of judgment the Urim and the Thummim; and they shall be upon Aaron's heart, when he goeth in before the Lord: and Aaron shall bear the judgment of the children of Israel upon his heart before the Lord continually.
Leviticus 8:8---King James Version (KJV)
8 And he put the breastplate upon him: also he put in the breastplate the Urim and the Thummim.
Numbers 27:21---King James Version (KJV)
21 And he shall stand before Eleazar the priest, who shall ask counsel for him after the judgment of Urim before the Lord: at his word shall they go out, and at his word they shall come in, both he, and all the children of Israel with him, even all the congregation.
Deuteronomy 33:8---King James Version (KJV)
8 And of Levi he said, Let thy Thummim and thy Urim be with thy holy one, whom thou didst prove at M***ah, and with whom thou didst strive at the waters of Meribah;
1 Samuel 28:6--King James Version (KJV)
6 And when Saul enquired of the Lord, the Lord answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.
Ezra 2:63---King James Version (KJV)
63 And the Tirshatha said unto them, that they should not eat of the most holy things, till there stood up a priest with Urim and with Thummim.
ALL of the junk joey smith supposedly 'found' has gone 'poof' and disappeared, so nobody could check its authenticity.
Joey's junk (which he PRETENDS are real) goes 'poof' and disappears. AFTER ALL, he wouldn't want you to find out the TRUTH, that it never existed, now would he?
joey never HAD any urim or thummim. ALL he had was rocks in his head and one in his hat!
Joey's fake junk still goes 'poof' and vanishes!
[QUOTE=dberrie2000;172386]As the Biblical record testifies to--the Urim and Thummim are verifed as authentic within the Biblical record:
BUT NEVER as having been in the hands of your perverted and dirty criminal joey smith. All HE HAD was rocks in his head, and a rock in his hat. No urim or thummim THERE.
Rolls-Royce Automobiles exist too, but YOU likely don't have one! Urim and Thummim exist, but NOT IN JOEY'S HAT! Joey was a fraud and a heretic. . .why would a fraud and heretic have them anyway?
Do you think he picked them up at the local five-and-dime store?
And what do you think happened to them? Did he simply 'lose' them? Drop them in the horse-trough?