Does 2 Samuel 12 approve of Polygamy?

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09-14-2014, 04:58 PM
alanmolstad

Does 2 Samuel 12 approve of Polygamy?

http://www.equip.org/hank_speaks_out...e-of-polygamy/
09-14-2014, 06:12 PM
RealFakeHair

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

http://www.equip.org/hank_speaks_out...e-of-polygamy/

The question is, Did God ever bless a polygamist union?
09-14-2014, 11:58 PM
tdidymas

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

The question is, Did God ever bless a polygamist union?

No, this is not the OP question. God blesses many people though they live in sin. Just because polygamist unions were blessed in the OT, doesn't mean they were approved by God. Jesus says that sexual union with more than one spouse is adultery (Mat. 5:31-32 et al). Paul concurs in his criteria for elders.
:)TD
09-15-2014, 12:10 AM
tdidymas

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

http://www.equip.org/hank_speaks_out...e-of-polygamy/

No, I agree with Hank that the p***age is "descriptive as opposed to prescriptive." God never approved polygamy, since Jesus spoke of a marriage covenant being one man/one woman in Mat. 5 and Mat. 19. And Paul concurs in his standards for elders.
:)TD
10-05-2014, 04:41 PM
dberrie2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdidymas

No, this is not the OP question. God blesses many people though they live in sin. Just because polygamist unions were blessed in the OT, doesn't mean they were approved by God. Jesus says that sexual union with more than one spouse is adultery (Mat. 5:31-32 et al).

Then was Abraham an adulterer?

Quote:

Paul concurs in his criteria for elders.

He sure did:

Galatians 5:19-21King James Version (KJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

So--do you conclude that Abraham did not enter into heaven?
10-05-2014, 07:07 PM
alanmolstad

Quote:

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Then was Abraham an adulterer?

He may have been.
We know he had sex with a woman that he was not married to.

But I guess we shall have to just leave that one up to God to decide...
10-05-2014, 07:13 PM
alanmolstad

Quote:

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Then was Abraham an adulterer?

He sure did:

Galatians 5:19-21King James Version (KJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

So--do you conclude that Abraham did not enter into heaven?

The point of the list is to make it wide enough that it is talking about all of us....

Jesus points this out when he kicks open the door and shows us that not only is sex with another women you are not married to adultry, but also even just looking at a girl with lust makes you just as guilty.

Jesus goes on and says that even being angry with someone makes you guilty of murder...

So this means that we cant try to get out of blame for a sin on a technicality.
We look on the outside, we dont see a person actually having sex with another and so we can only say, "They were not committing adultery"

But God sees the heart, and God knows the sin found in the secret places inside the heart, and kicks open that door and exposes the sin.

So....this is why works cant save us...
Alone we are without hope.
But with God all things are possible.
10-06-2014, 03:53 AM
dberrie2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post Then was Abraham an adulterer?

He sure did:

Galatians 5:19-21King James Version (KJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

So--do you conclude that Abraham did not enter into heaven?

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

He may have been. We know he had sex with a woman that he was not married to.

But I guess we shall have to just leave that one up to God to decide...

A couple of points here, Alan.

One--Abraham died having concubines--multiple wives. There is no record of Him ever repenting of it.

Secondly--God has already spoken:

Galatians 5:19-21King James Version (KJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

So--do you conclude that Abraham did not enter into heaven, according to what we find in the NT?
10-06-2014, 04:34 AM
alanmolstad

Quote:

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

So--do you conclude that Abraham did not enter into heaven, according to what we find in the NT?

As far as I remember, Abraham was only married 2 times.

Abraham also told lies...and the act of taking another woman into his bed was also in itself not only fornication, it was a clear example of Abraham not trusting god....and he also was guilty of listening to the bad advice of his wife...like adam in that respect.

So on his own Abraham was doomed.
But God was still able to use the man for His own reasons.

The relationship Abraham must have had with the Lord, although it suffered clear stumbling at times, must also have been very close.
We learn later in the bible that it was by FAITH that Abraham was blessed.

So this ties in with the New testament, where also it is by FAITH that we come to know the Lord and are forgiven.
10-06-2014, 05:18 AM
dberrie2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

As far as I remember, Abraham was only married 2 times.

Abraham also told lies...and the act of taking another woman into his bed was also in itself not only fornication, it was a clear example of Abraham not trusting god....and he also was guilty of listening to the bad advice of his wife...like adam in that respect.

So on his own Abraham was doomed.
But God was still able to use the man for His own reasons.

The relationship Abraham must have had with the Lord, although it suffered clear stumbling at times, must also have been very close.
We learn later in the bible that it was by FAITH that Abraham was blessed.

So this ties in with the New testament, where also it is by FAITH that we come to know the Lord and are forgiven.

The Biblical scriptures state nothing about being forgiven unless one repents. Abraham never repented of his concubines and wives.

If that was not approved by God--then did Abraham fall into this condemnation?

Galatians 5:19-21King James Version (KJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
10-06-2014, 10:28 AM
alanmolstad

As far as I remember Abraham had only 2 wife.
The 1st wife died and so he married again
10-06-2014, 10:56 AM
dberrie2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

As far as I remember Abraham had only 2 wife.
The 1st wife died and so he married again

Allow me to refresh your memory:

Genesis 16:1-4----King James Version (KJV)

1 Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar.

2 And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the Lord hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.

3 And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

4 And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes.

Genesis 25:5-8King James Version (KJV)

1Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah.

5 And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.

6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

7 And these are the days of the years of Abraham's life which he lived, an hundred threescore and fifteen years.

8 Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people.