The theory of evolution is dead.
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The theory of evolution is dead.
i find such posts as this a prime example of why christians do not make an impact for God.Quote:
The theory of evolution is dead
paul went into the temple or meeting place, i forget which, for 3 years to defend christianity and one can, by the examples we have in scriptures, see he did not resort to such ******** and flaming rhetoric
all that does is harden the hearts of those who believe in that alternative theory and does nothing for the kingdom of God, not even plant a seed. christians need to be better informed and able to communicate God's truth in a manner that is conducive to His will and desire.
the above quote doesn't even bring glory to God, but it does bring mockery and other negatives to Him and His followers.
A-bio-genesis is dead. A thesis pertaining to it
(i.e., the generation of Life by means of random, natural processes)
predicts a higher carbon isotope-ratio (i.e., the amount of carbon-13 compared to C-12) than what has been observed *
(-Hugh Ross, whose PhD in Astro-physics was conferred by the Univ. of Toronto, Canada; he conducted 5 years of internship at the Cal. Ins***ute of Tech. -- he'll be on TBN-TV tonight & tomorrow afternoon).
This Reductio Ad Absurdum/ Modus Tollens is polemic, yet it puts a pebble in the shoe, something about which to cogitate, what?
_______________________________
* -- I don't know the quan***y, but the average m*** of a carbon atom is 12.011,15 atomic m*** units (or grams per mole), compared to exactly 12 for C-12
(-the Sargent Welch Scientific Company, Skokie, IL, publisher of the Chart of Elements).
Evolutionsts even admit macro-evolution isn't even a good theory.
I dont defend evolution, rather I defend the idea that evolution is in agreement with the genesis text...
evolution has never existed, it is the true fairy tale
as I said, I do not defend the teachings, I just point out that they walk hand in hand with the bible, and there is no contradiction....
Where does the Bible say that God created an ape that evolved into a man?? Maybe the Book of Hezekiah!
what came before the ape according to evolution?
trace the line of evolution back....back...back....
Trace evolution back to the very beginning...to the very building blocks of all life...
Back to the place where we all started out at.
Where do you end up?.....
the answer is that you end up the very same place you end up at Genesis 3:19 (go look it up!)
So what Im showing you is that according to both Evolution and Genesis we have a common source for all life.
So the teachings of both Evolution and genesis do not contradict each other, rather that walk hand in hand with each other...
Did God create or did chance luck out? What chance creates it instantaneously destroys. It is either God Created all things created or it was randome chance. I will stick with the Scripture.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
First you must agree that the single place where both evolution and genesis trace back all life to, (man and animal) is held in common correct?Quote:
this is found in the verse I listed if you want to checkout all that im saying for yourself...
as for the time needed for evolution...that easy to also see displayed in the genesis text when you consider the "days"
Notice we know for a fact that the first 6 days of the Creation week are ended.
We know this for a fact because the Bible tells us clearly they are ended...
Then noticethe ending to the 7th day?....
Or....notice that at no place in the genesis story does the text list anyplace that the 7th day of the creation week has ended.
Now notice that at no place in the whole Old Testament doesa it teach that the 7th day of Creation has ended.
Now notice that at no point in the whole Bible does it teach that the 7th Day of Creation has ended .
So, being that we have clear endings to the first 6 days of Creation, and that we have no hint even in the whole Bible that the 7th day has ended yet...that only leaves one question..
"How long has the 7th Day lasted so far?"
(Thus the argument that Genesis has not enough time to account for the evolution of life, is in error according to the text)
ah yes, the old "Evolution= chance" argument....(I love it when this one is tossed at me...LOL)Quote:
To see how this argument against evolution does not agree with the Bible, we will consider the story of Jonah and the Whale!
In that story there is a great storm at sea.
The men on the ship decide to draw lots to see who was at fault for the storm.
So the men cast lots, and the lot falls onto Jonah.
Now lets say that we were watching the casting of the lot, and it falling onto Jonah.
If we were a scientist we would say that this was just "chance"
We would not see any giant hand controlling the casting of the lot onto Jonah....
so as far as we would know, this was 100% just dumb luck that it fell onto Jonah.
However......at the same time....
When I read this same story I dont see any "dumb luck" at all!
There was nothing left to "chance" in this story
This was 100% all totally controlled by the hand of God....
Thus the argument against evolution saying that "Evolution = chance" is also a giant FAIL !
Science cant prove God.
Science cant test for God.
So Science can never prove God.
Thus when science looks at life on the earth, all it can see is "dumb luck and chance"
But because we have faith we can see beyond the things that are seen with our eyes, and understand that God is always in full control of "Dumb luck and chance"
God is in full control!! Then it isn't evolution after all. There are three major theories of evolution and they all contradict each other.
God is always God....
Im not saying that god stood back and left something else to do the work of creation.
rather Im saying that evolution is clearly a tool of god's hands.
Evolution needs to be respected by the christian...its like sunshine...its like rain....its like the wind that moves the trees..
Its part of God's creation...its part of the way God made this universe...
and...its in agreement with the Genesis story.
There are no anti-evolution arguments in the genesis stroy.
all the anti-evolution arguments are the result of "men's thinking"......
believe what you want, but evolution is a completely bogus invention of man used to escape the reality of God.
I dont teach evolution
I dont tell people what the genesis story "means"
But I dont run away and hide just because someone tells me we are related to apes.
nor do I need to run away and hide if someone asks me to show them how Genesis and Evolution can walk hand-in-hand...
I just ask questions in an effort to show people that what they thought was a huge difference between evolution and genesis actually turns out to be huge agreements.
take the concept of the "first thing"in both science and in Genesis.
Here isa question:...according to science, what is the first moment of creation?...what is is called...what was the thing that came out of it?
Now lets compare your answers with what the Bible teaches-
Here is a question:...according to the book of Genesis, what is the first thing God created in the beginning?
The answer you come up within both science(evolution) and out of the Text of Genesis match!
The only relationship that man has to an ape is that we were both created by the same creator. God created an ape and God also created a man. The ape did not turn into a man, God created man as a man and nothing more and nothing less.Quote:
I dont teach evolution
I dont tell people what the genesis story "means"
But I dont run away and hide just because someone tells me we are related to apes.
nor do I need to run away and hide if someone asks me to show them how Genesis and Evolution can walk hand-in-hand...
There is no agreement between the creation of man and the evolution of man. Creation exists and evolution is a fairy tale.Quote:
I just ask questions in an effort to show people that what they thought was a huge difference between evolution and genesis actually turns out to be huge agreements.
God created the heaven and the earth, not set evolution in motion. Creation and evolving are two separate things.Quote:
take the concept of the "first thing"in both science and in Genesis.
Here isa question:...according to science, what is the first moment of creation?...what is is called...what was the thing that came out of it?
Now lets compare your answers with what the Bible teaches-
Here is a question:...according to the book of Genesis, what is the first thing God created in the beginning?
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
In your dreams.Quote:
The answer you come up within both science(evolution) and out of the Text of Genesis match!
Point out the agreements that you find.
Don't be silly. The ones that you think are real.
According to science, the start of the universe was the Big Bang.
All that we see around us in our universe had this one single starting point.
Every star , every dead world like our moon, every earth-like planet we might see in the future, is made from stuff that came forth from the Big Bang.
In the Bible this very same moment is talked about at Genesis 1:1 " In the beginning God created the Heavens and the earth."
The word "Heavens" has several meanings in the Bible and in different contexts, but of these many understandings of the word is the idea for the "Full canopy of the night sky" .........in other words all the stars and galaxies of the universe.
So like what we find in science, the Bible also has the creation of the "heavens" as being the very first thing listed that God has made.
But what about life?
Is there agreement about where all life is from in both Science and in Genesis?......yes there is!
Now according to Science all the life we see on the earth is just the natural result of change on the earth.
That life is just the earth itself ....that Life is part of the Earth.
In other words....animals and humans are just a part of the earth that has come to life....
Is this all that different than what the Bible teaches in Genesis?.......Nope!
"And God said, Let the earth bring forth gr***"
"And the earth brought forth gr***"
"And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature"
"And God made the beast of the earth"
"And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree"
"And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air"
So what we see in the Genesis story is the clear fact that God made all life out of this very earth itself.
Life, be it the life found in the plant world, or the life found in the animal kingdom, is all from this very same single source....and that source is the very ground of the earth itself!
So there is complete agreement about the source of life in both Evolution and in Genesis!
But what about humans?
Are we also from the same source?
yes we are!!!!!!!!!
Quote:
Hi Alan,
I see the point you are making but I see no agreement between evolution and creation. Evolution employs, death, mutation, chance and discounts irreducible complexity. Complex systems do not evolve bit by bit, for example a baby needs a number of very complex, interdependent systems to live and survive. These systems include the nervous, digestive, excretory, circulatory, skeletal, muscular and an immune system. For the baby to survive and live each system requires all the other systems to be functioning. Therefore all these systems must be in operation at the same time and could not have evolved slowly over millions of years. Think of the amazing intricacy of the male reproductive system coming about by time, chance and random mutation. It would need to be fully functional all along the evolutionary timeline so that reproduction could continue. And remember this highly unlikely progression would be pointless unless the female reproductive system had randomly evolved in perfect sync to compliment the developing male system so they both worked in harmony over the millions of years of evolutionary refinement! Of course, this logic applies to all the other species on earth as well.
There is no evidence anywhere of the evolution of such systems. More than that, not even any hypothetical process can be thought of to explain how something like the brain and the digestive system could have evolved bit by bit over time. Evolution is a theory introduced by man. I don’t think that Gen. 3:19 has anything to do with evolution and if you will look at Gen. 2:18-22 you will see that Eve did not evolve from an ape.
“And the Lord God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him. And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.”
Quote:
Hi Alan,
I see the point you are making but I see no agreement between evolution and creation. Evolution employs, death, mutation, chance and discounts irreducible complexity. Complex systems do not evolve bit by bit, for example a baby needs a number of very complex, interdependent systems to live and survive. These systems include the nervous, digestive, excretory, circulatory, skeletal, muscular and an immune system. For the baby to survive and live each system requires all the other systems to be functioning. Therefore all these systems must be in operation at the same time and could not have evolved slowly over millions of years. Think of the amazing intricacy of the male reproductive system coming about by time, chance and random mutation. It would need to be fully functional all along the evolutionary timeline so that reproduction could continue. And remember this highly unlikely progression would be pointless unless the female reproductive system had randomly evolved in perfect sync to compliment the developing male system so they both worked in harmony over the millions of years of evolutionary refinement! Of course, this logic applies to all the other species on earth as well.
There is no evidence anywhere of the evolution of such systems. More than that, not even any hypothetical process can be thought of to explain how something like the brain and the digestive system could have evolved bit by bit over time. Evolution is a theory introduced by man. I don’t think that Gen. 3:19 has anything to do with evolution and if you will look at Gen. 2:18-22 you will see that Eve did not evolve from an ape.
“And the Lord God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him. And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.”
I dont teach evolution...I dont have any teachings on if the concept of evolution is true as now taught or if it needs to be changed in the future.
However what I am is a bible believer that has noticed that according to the current teachings of evolution we dont find any disagreements with it in the Genesis text!
So telling me how the odds are against evolution is a bit silly from my point of view...LOL
I believe that evolution is a tool of the "Maker's hand"
Thus evolution reflects the the workmanship of the "Maker"
Telling me the odds are against evolution only shows me why I believe evolution is a tool of the "Maker"
For the Maker is that good.....He is not stumped by your "odds"..... :)
but what I try to point out to people is that the Bible tells us that life on the earth is from the earth itself...that all life, both animal and human, is from this earth.
We are a part of the earth that has come to life....
"Made in" the image of God to be sure, but still always "made from" this very earth itself.....
as for the "Eve issue"?........there is no difference!
The Bible tells us that Eve came forth from Adam, and so where did Adam come from?......the GROUND of the earth!!!!!!!
So both Adam and Eve come from the same single source!.........the ground.
This is why when we die we are said to "RETURN" to the ground....return to the dust of the EARTH!!!!!!!
Therefore no difference!!!!!!
Do you have any other questions or things I have said that you wish me to address in a more complete form?
I would be very happy to do so, as it's so nice to be able to have a conversation that is NOT ABOUT THE MORMONS!.... :)
Do you have any Bible verses that you would like me to take a look at?
Im not a Bible expert by any means, but I have read a verse or two in my life and so I can give any Bible verses you have in mind a little look-see..
Is there a Genesis verse that you want to see how it could be able to be in agreement with science and evolution?
I know that lots of Christians are students of the bible, and so I really would like to hear whats on your mind as it concerns this topic and what it means if what Im saying is starting to ring true to you...
Hello again Alan,Quote:
Do you have any other questions or things I have said that you wish me to address in a more complete form?
I would be very happy to do so, as it's so nice to be able to have a conversation that is NOT ABOUT THE MORMONS!.... :)
Do you have any Bible verses that you would like me to take a look at?
Im not a Bible expert by any means, but I have read a verse or two in my life and so I can give any Bible verses you have in mind a little look-see..
Is there a Genesis verse that you want to see how it could be able to be in agreement with science and evolution?
I know that lots of Christians are students of the bible, and so I really would like to hear whats on your mind as it concerns this topic and what it means if what Im saying is starting to ring true to you...
So what you are saying is God created all the elements and then created everything else from those elements. That's not evolution.
Im saying that in GENESIS you find a story that works well with Evolution.Quote:
Im saying that the Bible tells us that we humans share a common point of origin with the animals (such as the great apes).
Im saying that we are make "in" the image of God.
yet at the same time we are made "from" the same stuff as all the animals .
Im saying that according to the Genesis text, we share a place of origin with all the animals.
Im saying that you can be both a very strong Bible believer, and a Scientist who believes evolution is true.
Im saying that you can hold to a Genesis story that teaches us about the creation week of 7 days, and a scientist that understands that the universe is Billions and Billions of years old.
Im also saying something else....
Im saying that Young Earth Creationism (YEC) is a lie.
Im saying that YEC is the result of "men's thinking" and stands against the written Word of God.
Im saying that evolution is a tool of God's hands...and as such should be just as respected as sunshine, as the wind that ****s the tree, and as rain that falls to the earth.
They all reflect the "Maker's hand"
Once again, if the person reading my comments has a verse that they think stands against what I'm saying?...then lets have a look at it!
List it!
Show me where the Bible in Genesis is teaching something that is an argument against evolution.
so....got a verse?
Quote:
Hello Alan,
Here is the definition of human evolution,
"Human evolution is the lengthy process of change by which people originated from apelike ancestors. Scientific evidence shows that the physical and behavioral traits shared by all people originated from apelike ancestors and evolved over a period of approximately six million years."
Again the bible tells us there was no death before sin entered the world, how many apes, half apes, quarter apes etc. would have died in 6 million years before man became man and sinned?
Quote:
Hello Alan,
Here is the definition of human evolution,
"Human evolution is the lengthy process of change by which people originated from apelike ancestors. Scientific evidence shows that the physical and behavioral traits shared by all people originated from apelike ancestors and evolved over a period of approximately six million years."
Again the bible tells us there was no death before sin entered the world, how many apes, half apes, quarter apes etc. would have died in 6 million years before man became man and sinned?
Again , I dont teach evolution....
But I just point out that at no place in the whole Bible does it blame the death of animals onto the sins of men....(except for when we are talking about the sheep killed on the alter)
So there is not a single verse in the Bible that teaches that animals could not have lived and died for billions and billions of years before the rise of man on the earth....