Satanic pentagrams on German church
Here is the accusation made against us by the evangelical fundamentalist minority. Inverted pentagrams on the Salt Lake City Temple appear identical to the ones found on Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible. Mormon Temple symbols therefore are sacred--but only to the horned god of witchcraft and those who follow him!
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A very pleasant young lady greeted my wife and I at the visitors center. She ushered us into a room and showed us photographs of the various "sacred" rooms within the temple. As she answered our questions regarding Mormon doctrine,she was very careful to represent her beliefs in an orthodox Christian fashion.
It was not until I reminded her of the Mormon "plurality-of-gods doctrine" and her eventual status as a goddess that she realized she had been caught in a lie. I could only shudder at the thought of how many uninformed Christians have actually believed her.
I then asked her to explain the symbols that are emblazoned on the exterior granite-like (actually sandstone) walls of the[Salt Lake City] temple. She told us that "earth stones" and "sun stones" are important celestial and sacred symbols. But when I pointed to the inverted pentagrams and asked her to explain why they appear identical to the ones found on Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible,our ability to communicate with each other rapidly deteriorated.
The young lady just turned and walked away,leaving us only with the words,"Now I know where you are coming from!" It was fascinating to see just how swiftly darkness will disappear in the presence of light! The young lady was right about one thing,however. Mormon Temple symbols are sacred--but only to the horned god of witchcraft and those who follow him! [
JOSEPH'S CIRCLE OF DEATH by Larry Hall]
http://www.nauvootemple.com/g/20010630_4s.jpg
http://www.prophezine.com/Portals/0/... pentagram.jpg
However these very same satanic pentagrams are also found on the Evangelische-Lutheran Pfarramt Marktkirch in Hannover,Germany.
http:///psychochemiker.files.wordpre...9/08/star2.jpg
The consummate Satanic symbol
I am so glad you asked Shoedog. According to the Christian watchdog group Sword of the Spirit Apologetics"The inverted pentagram is the consummate symbol of Satan. "
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Originally Posted by
shoedog
Why does the LDS Mormon temple have inverted pentagrams,moonstones,and such? (Masonry?) Do the Germans have similar influences?
Thanks,Shoedog :)
According to these renowned experts it is the official symbol of the Church of Satan that is universally known for its sinister and evil influence.
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The inverted pentagram is the consummate symbol of Satan. It is the official symbol of the Church of Satan.
Universally known for its sinister and evil influence,it is also known as the Goat of Mendez."
In witchcraft the inverted pentacle depicts the Devil's Goat and the Witches Foot. It is ultimately the symbol of the star Sirius (from the Greek word "scorching") or "dog star." It is known by the Egyptians as Set (or Satan). Identified by the Masonic Lodge as the "Blazing Star," it is found at the center of every Masonic Lodge and is the official emblem of the Order of the Eastern Star.
The inverted pentagram is the second most common symbol used in Mormon architecture,being extensively used in exterior keystones. [
THE INVERTED PENTAGRAM,Copyright 2001 by Sword of the Spirit Apologetics.]
As you can clearly see in the this video but less so in the blurred picture what is the shocking truth now revealed for all to see. These very same satanic pentagrams are also found on the Evangelische-Lutheran Pfarramt Marktkirch in Hannover,Germany.
http:///psychochemiker.files.wordpre...9/08/star2.jpg
Why on the German church?
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Originally Posted by
shoedog
So,what are satanic and pagan symbols doing on LDS Mormon temples? What are the age differences of the German church and LDS temple? The temple is relatively young, no? thanks,Shoedog :)
Will you be able to finally admit that this symbol is sacred--but only to the horned god of witchcraft and those who follow him? According to the evangelical cult apologetics experts it is beyond dispute that the upside-down star (pentagram) depicted most prominently on the Salt Lake Temple can only have one meaning attached to it. But this is not all Shoedog as this “pagan” or even “satanic” symbol was mockingly used as a symbol for Christ! An example of this blasphemy is the icon of the Transfiguration by Andrei Rublev (1405),now located in the Moscow Annunciation Cathedral.
maybe to old to be satanic emblems?
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Originally Posted by
Mesenja
Will you be able to finally admit that this symbol is sacred--but only to the horned god of witchcraft and those who follow him? According to the evangelical cult apologetics experts it is beyond dispute that the upside-down star (pentagram) depicted most prominently on the Salt Lake Temple can only have one meaning attached to it. But this is not all Shoedog as this “pagan” or even “satanic” symbol was mockingly used as a symbol for Christ! An example of this blasphemy is the icon of the Transfiguration by Andrei Rublev (1405),now located in the Moscow Annunciation Cathedral.
Oh, I don't know. It's at least 450 years older than LDS Momron temples. My guess satan saw a good thing and as usual perverted it and LDS Mormons saw the value of it on their temples? Heck, I don't know. shoe :)
It's called special pleading
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Originally Posted by
Father_JD
Sorry,Mesenja-dude. The link doesn't work. What the REAL question is:
1. What were the MOTIVES as to WHY it's on Mormon temples,and the clear Mormon connection to FREEMASONRY?
2. What were the MOTIVES as to WHY it should be on a Lutheran Church?
It's EQUIVOCATION regardless which you're about. :rolleyes:
However I am not the one that is guilty of this fallacy. I would think that by now you would see this double standard at work. By the way the link works just fine for me. Here is the URL. There should be no excuses now as to why you can't watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIimYfclxl0
Maybe it's special pleading
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shoedog
Oh,I don't know. It's at least 450 years older than LDS Momron temples. My guess [is that]Satan saw a good thing and as usual perverted it and LDS Mormons saw the value of it on their temples? Heck,I don't know. Shoedog :)
Definition:The informal fallacy of special pleading is committed whenever an argument includes some double standard.
I'm willing to say your right
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Originally Posted by
MacG
I am willing to say that the inverted pentagram is not satanic given the historic use in Christianity and it's recent use in paganism etc.
If one were to take away the pentagram off of both that church and a Mormon temple (a "common" denominator as it were),how would symbologists cl***ify each structure based on the remaining symbols?
From a layman's point of view take away the pentagram from the church and it would be clear to me that Christian people worship there based on the remaining symbols. Take away the pentagram from the Mormon Temple and what remaining symbols would tell me that Christian people worship there?
Blessings,MacG
The meaning of symbols can only be defined by the person or group using it. This entire accusation that the inverted five-pointed stars or pentagrams that decorate some LDS temples are occultic or even Satanic in nature is nonsense. It is a Christian symbol. The Savior called Himself “the bright…morning star” (Revelation 22:16) which is the planet Venus.
If you plot the exact position of Venus where it first appears shortly before sunrise after a period of invisibility and repeat this process until we have five positions then draw a line from the first point marked to the second point marked,then to the third,and so on the pentagram within a circle will be the design-iconic symbol.
The five-pointed star would appear either upright or inverted depending on when a person began to observe and plot the positions of Venus. Only the planet Venus can recreate this five-pointed star sign.
Your using a double standard
Its called the fallacy of special pleading. The informal fallacy of special pleading is committed whenever an argument includes some double standard.
Here you are correctly arguing that a symbol can only be defined by the person or group using it but only when it supports your argument.
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Originally Posted by
James Banta
That isn't what I said.. I said that the meaning of those symbols was twisted by evil to be their symbols.. And as I said to be clear I will use the Cross!.. IHS Jim
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Originally Posted by
James Banta
I told you how the Hexagram came into use by Israel. I also explained how the 5 pointed star was a symbol of the wounds of Jesus. How others used it before that to me is not an issue.. IHS Jim
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Originally Posted by
James Banta
Yes they didn't want to use it as a symbol of faith so they twist it to their own purposes. IHS Jim
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Here is what you said to Russ. You made the claim that the symbol of the five pointed star does not become satanic unless used in the inverted position. You are guilty of the fallacy of special pleading as your argument includes a double standard.
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Originally Posted by
James Banta
Look at it close Russ.. It doesn't become satanic unless used in the inverted position.. Sort of like an upside down cross. This is NOT true on the Salt Lake Temple.. Their satanic symbols are chiseled in stone. IHS Jim
eloquent, seriously, but times change
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Originally Posted by
Mesenja
Definition:The informal fallacy of special pleading is committed whenever an argument includes some double standard.
Your logicasal fallacy isn't applied correctly. It would be a double standard if in the same context of time, for example.
Below is an example how times and meanings change. Same verse:
Song 5:4 "My beloved extended his hand through the opening,
And my feelings were aroused for him. NAS (recent)
Song 5:4 My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him. KJV ((not so recent)
My point is what meanings were fine and acceptable 400 years ago may mean something different now. What what no special meaning 500 years ago in a German church, upside down pentagram, or even 1500 years ago in the ancient Christian community... may have been become an emblem for satanism and later used by churches honoring him. Why use anything if something with a better meaning is available?
Look at the history of LDSism. It includes masonic rituals which continue today, moonstones and other occult symvolism such as the upside down pentagram, an idol - different god on top of temples instead of a cross which certainly is a known CHristian symbology, etc.
Given the heresies and unscriptural teaching one may conclude the upside down pentagram simply acknowledges the spirit behind LDS Mormon teaching.
Thanks, shoe :)
Symbolism of the SLC Temple
Temple East Side:Melchizedek Priesthood
Temple West Side : Aaronic Priesthood.
Three Towers East:First Presidency
Three Towers West:Presiding Bishopric
Twelve Pinnacles East:Quorum of Twelve
Twelve Pinnacles West:High Council
Buds and Leaves:Rebirth and Resurrection
Gold Moroni Statue:Moroni faces East denoting the place of residence for the true and living God of Israel (Hebrew- קדים qadiym east,east wind,east of direction,forward) Moroni returned on September 23,the day of the Jewish Feast known as “the Day of Trumpets” (Leviticus 23:24),with the keys of the Book of Mormon and the everlasting gospel to preach to all that dwell upon the earth (Joel 2:1).
Alpha and Omega Scrolls East and West Windows & Pillars:They declare the names of God. The Alpha sign is found in the inlaid brick of the pillars of the temple and the Omega sign is found over every window. The scroll is a symbol of the word of God (Ezekiel 3:1-4),declaring that he is the “I Am” (Exodus 3 12-14) and the “Alpha” and “Omega”.
The Big Dipper (Ursa Major):The seven (perfect) six-sided (fixed position) stars literally (from the alignment on the temple) point to the North Star (Stella Maris),a polar star for determining location. One can gain their bearings through the priesthood and can gain perfection as they observe the constant or polar star who is Jesus Christ.
Stars:One hundred and eleven stars found on the Temple. Stars have always been a symbol for men. (Revelation 14:4;Isaiah 14:12-14;Genesis 22:17;1 Nephi 1:10-11,etc.)
Five-pointed Upward Stars:Directly below the east center tower is a row of four upright stars,as well as three stars on each of the other two towers. These stars are not found on the west towers because the Aaronic Priesthood receives its light from the Melchizedek Priesthood. Represents men and women set upright before the Lord from their ‘natural’ state to pursue a righteous path into eternity in the house of the Lord (i.e. Temple).
Inverted Stars:Represent the planet Venus or the ‘bright and morning star’ (Revelation 22:16). They are made to symbolize God,his relationship to man and his eternal nature.
Cloud Stones:The cloud is a symbol of ‘the glory of the God’. (D&C 84:5) Israel saw the cloud as both dark and bright (Exodus 40:34-38). They are found atop of the East center tower. The North side cloud represents ‘billowy clouds’ or white and the South side cloud represents ‘storm clouds or black.
Earth Stones:They are found on all four corners of the Temple and signify mankind and is declared to be ‘the footstool of God’ (D&C 38:17).
Moon Stones: Israel was governed by the moon (Leviticus 23) with its first month being Abib or April (Exodus 12:2). There are fifty moon stones encomp***ing the Temple. They signify that God is one eternal round (D&C 3:2) and vertically in the sun-moon-earth signs are symbolic of Celestial-Terrestial-Telestial Kingdoms.
Guardians of the Temple:Beside each East side door are the two niches bearing the bronze statues of Joseph and Hyrum Smith signifying that for this dispensation its two original presidents who were martyred for the cause (D&C 135) stand guard over the city of God like the priests did anciently over earthly cities. (2 Chronicles 8:14;Revelation 21:12) It is also symbolic of the guardian angels (1 Kings 6:32, 35) who watch over the Temple and the need for those who wish to enter the presence of the Lord to p*** by the sentinels (D&C 132:18-19).
Honey Bee or Deseret [Egyptian dsrt ] (Ether 2:3):There are twenty-four bee hives on the Temple. Orson Pratt stated that the honey bee is a type for the eternal nature of God and his plan;swarming out [hive] to fill eternities and procreate in greater number (Journal of Discourses,1:294).
Golden Flowering Vines:The golden hinges of the temple doors are shaped like flowering vines signifying that Christ is ‘the True Vine’ (John 15:1-8),‘the Tree of Life’(1 Nephi 11:4-8),‘the Keeper of the Gate’(2 Nephi 9:41). The entire door has depictions of vines,branches,leaves, fruits,and beehives,which represents the garden of Eden. It is to signify that just as Adam and Eve exited Eden Garden and the Presence of the Lord so one must enter the same way.
All-Seeing Eyes:They are found on the East and West sides of the Temple or the Front and the Back. The all-seeing eye is an ancient emblem and represents the omniscience of God (Proverbs 15:3) and His ability to discern the good and evil deeds of man. All worthy individuals who worship at the temple are ushered in into the presence of the Lord to be granted greater light and knowledge. The eye is always the right eye being symbol of covenants. What appears at first to be and eyelid is in reality the veil of the temple.
Capstone:The capstone is the ball on which Moroni stands and is a symbol of completion or perfection.
Handclasp:The clasping of right hands represent the ‘right hand of fellowship’ (Galatians 2:9),but that within the Temple it is symbolic of receiving a handclasp from the Lord and ‘take hold’ of the Him in His holy house (Isaiah 56:4-7).
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Originally Posted by
MacG
I agree. Since above you indicated that you are not taking this very seriously and given that you chose to not to actually address the bulk of my question,I would not want to waste your time asking you for the definitions of the remaining symbols (are they not important to you?)
Could you do me a favor and point me to where it is the TCJCLDS defines these symbols? Otherwise I only have the "a*t*-Mormon" sites to glean from and without your help I will continue to be misinformed about the TCJCLDS all the while ***umng that they are right about the remaining symbols.
Blessings,
MacG
An example of special pleading
You argue that when used by Christians the pentagram symbolised the five wounds of Jesus. When it is utilized by us on some of our temples it is satanic. You are using a double standard.
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Originally Posted by
James Banta
The pentagram was first used in the Church to bring to mind the five wounds of Jesus. Twisting the meaning of these symbols they have been made to equal evil. IHS Jim
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Originally Posted by
James Banta
If you can show me that this was installed in the building upside down we can discuss their intentions. But the pictures given here doesn't show that just the window in display.. IHS Jim
Yes it's special pleading
Come back with a better counter argument Shoe_dog. You can start by trying to understand what the logical fallacy of special pleading is.
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Definition:Special Pleading is a fallacy in which a person applies standards,principles,rules,etc. to others while taking themself (or those they have a special interest in) to be exempt,without providing adequate justification for the exemption.
You have applied a different standard to the Evangelische-Lutheran Pfarramt Marktkirch and early Christianity then you did to us.
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"What [had] no special meaning 500 years ago in a German church,upside down pentagram,or even 1500 years ago in the ancient Christian community may have been become an emblem for satanism and later used by churches honoring him.
Here is an example of special pleading as committed by James Banta. First he argues that when used by Christians the pentagram symbolised the five wounds of Jesus. Then he employs the double standard of saying that when it is utilized by us on some of our temples it is satanic.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
James Banta
The pentagram was first used in the Church to bring to mind the five wounds of Jesus. Twisting the meaning of these symbols they have been made to equal evil. IHS Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by
James Banta
If you can show me that this was installed in the building upside down we can discuss their intentions. But the pictures given here doesn't show that just the window in display.. IHS Jim