No that isn't the question
You asked the following question:"Are you good enough...NOW?".
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Originally Posted by
Father_JD
The perennial question for Mormons is:Are you good enough...NOW? Can't find the German church with pentagrams...Of course,the Mesenja-dude is trying to equivocate from the pentagrams on the LDS temple. :rolleyes:
Russ asked me the very same question and I will give you the very same answer I gave Russ who is now on my permanent ignore list.
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Originally Posted by Russ:The Book of Mormon informs us that "enduring to the end" means to "deny yourself all ungodliness." What is all ungodliness? Everything that isn't God. Have you endured to the end? Are you good enough? Yet?
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Yea,come unto Christ,and be perfected in him,and deny yourselves of all ungodliness;and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness,and love God with all your might,mind and strength,then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ;and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ,ye can in nowise deny the power of God.
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Originally Posted by
Mesenja
Do you actually think that those who did not endure to the end will be saved?
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Matthew 10:22
22And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
You asked the question:"
Are you good enough? Yet?" And my answer to this question is very simple.
No. I can never do enough works to ever be called a
profitable servant by the Lord. I also can never display a sufficient quality of faith that would be acceptable to God if judged strictly by the standards of divine law. Who can repay God? In this mortal probation all that is asked of me is that I always be a
good and faithful servant who has proven ever faithful with a few things;and will one day be put in charge of many things. He has already shown us the way,provided the means necessary and paid the full price. What little he requires of us is not to make up for what he has not done in regards to our salvation. It is asked of us so that we may learn through our own experience how to act like he acts,love how he loves,think like he thinks,in order to be able to share in the Master's happiness.
No the perennial and penetrating question is the one posed by President Thomas S. Monson.
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"Thousands of honest,searching souls continue to be confronted by that penetrating question which coursed through the mind of Joseph Smith as he surveyed the declarations made by the churches of his community concerning who is right and who is wrong. Joseph said:"'In the midst of this war of words and tumult of opinions,I often said to myself:What is to be done? Who of all these parties are right;or,are they all wrong together? If any one of them be right,which is it,and how shall I know it? . . ." 'At length I came to the conclusion that I must either remain in darkness and confusion,or else I must do as James directs,that is,ask of God' (Joseph Smith—History 1:10,13)." He prayed. The results of that prayer are best described in Joseph's own words. You know them:"'I saw two Personages,whose brightness and glory defy all description,standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me,calling me by name and said,pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!' (Joseph Smith—History 1:17)." Joseph listened;Joseph learned. His question had been answered." [Thomas S. Monson,"Great Expectations" address given at Brigham Young University,Jan. 11,2009]
In your question there is the implication that I do not have any ***urance of my salvation. First let me say that I have salvation.
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Good Christian people sometimes attach different meanings to some key gospel terms like saved or salvation. If we answer according to what our questioner probably means in asking if we have been “saved,” our answer must be “yes.” If we answer according to the various meanings we attach to the terms saved or salvation,our answer will be either “yes” or “yes, but with conditions.” [Dallin H. Oaks,“Have You Been Saved?,” Ensign,May 1998,55]
Before continuing it is necessary that the gospel of Jesus Christ be explained as salvation comes by having obeyed the gospel as "faith cometh by hearing,and hearing by the word of God." (Romans 10:13-17)
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"The gospel of Jesus Christ is the plan of salvation. It embraces all of the laws,principles, doctrines, rites,ordinances, acts,powers,authorities,and keys necessary to save and exalt men in the highest heaven hereafter. It is the covenant of salvation which the Lord makes with men on earth." [Elder Bruce R. McConkie,Mormon Doctrine]
As Latter-day Saints when we use the words saved and salvation,there are at least seven different meanings.
1. For Latter-day Saints we are saved when we are cleansed from sin through Christ’s Atonement.
2. For Latter-day Saints we are saved from being i*g*n*o*r*a*n*t* of the of the saving truths of the gospel.
3. For Latter-day Saints we are saved by being born again when we enter into a covenant relationship with our Savior through baptism and take upon us the name of Jesus Christ. We can renew that rebirth each Sabbath when we partake of the sacrament.
4. For Latter-day Saints we are saved only if we are obedient to the present covenant relationship we have with Jesus Christ.
5. For Latter-day Saints we are saved conditionally according to the individual sinner’s faith,which must be manifested by obedience to the Lord’s command to repent,be baptized,and receive the Holy Ghost.
6. For Latter-day Saints we are saved from death through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
7. For Latter-day Saints we are saved from the second death (meaning the final spiritual death) by ***urance of a kingdom of glory in the world to come. Specifically it means exaltation or eternal life (see Abraham 2:11) which is sometimes referred to as the “fulness of salvation”
The song remains the same
In the mid 19th century when a French magician Eliphas Levi mistakenly claimed that the inverted pentagram was a symbol for the goat god Baphomet. It was only in the late 20th century that the Church of Satan decided to use it for themselves.
During the lifetime of Joseph Smith the inverted five-pointed star had absolutely no ***ociation with the occult or with Satan. Along with the other symbols on the Salt Lake City Temple it was not an occultic or even a satanic symbol.
You need to stay after cl*** with Shoe_dog and write out on the blackboard a 100 times the sentence "The meaning of symbols can only be defined by the person or group using it."
__________________
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Originally Posted by
Father_JD
Again the question remains:WHY is the pentegram added to by OTHER OCCULTIC SYMBOLS.
Just answer that one, 'k?
No explain it to me again
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Originally Posted by
Father_JD
Sounds both "Biblical and Christian",Mesenja_dude. However it's mere lip-service and I'll show you WHY:
It sounds like you are espousing the Antinomian heresy that Christians are freed from the moral law by virtue of grace as set forth in the gospel. I've also read your post and you have not shown me why my answer to your question has only been giving "mere lip-service".
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Originally Posted by
Mesenja
In this mortal probation all that is asked of me is that I always be a good and faithful servant who has proven ever faithful with a few things;and will one day be put in charge of many things. He has already shown us the way,provided the means necessary and paid the full price. What little he requires of us is not to make up for what he has not done in regards to our salvation. It is asked of us so that we may learn through our own experience how to act like he acts,love how he loves,think like he thinks,in order to be able to share in the Master's happiness.
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Originally Posted by
Father_JD
And where I've emboldened the text is WHERE you show your true colors,Mesenja. Have you ALWAYS been a "good and faithful servant"? In other words,ARE YOU GOOD ENOUGH...NOW ? And then also,"what he REQUIRES OF US" . Have you done EVERYTHING he "requires" of you ? In other words,ARE YOU GOOD ENOUGH...NOW ?
My answer to this question is very simple. No. God does not require of me faultless obedience for salvation. Zachariah and Elizabeth "were righteous in the sight of God,observing all the Lord's commandments and regulations blamelessly." (Luke 1:6) They obeyed God suffiently to be found blameless and considered righteous.
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Originally Posted by
Father_JD
I'm always amazed how LDS can affirm one thing, and literally contradict themselves once they begin to EXPLAIN their position. Sorry,Mesenja, but Russ is right:Are you good enough? :rolleyes:
I have along with everyone else "sinned,and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23) All those as Paul said all those who "have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law." (Romans 2:12) However I am "not under the law,but under grace" (Romans 6:14) If I am judged according to that "grace in the eyes of the Lord" (Genesis 6:8) by which the patriarch Noah was judged then my efforts while not measuring up to His divine standards will none the less be acceptable.
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Originally Posted by
Mesenja
No the perennial and penetrating question is the one posed by President Thomas S. Monson.
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"Thousands of honest,searching souls continue to be confronted by that penetrating question which coursed through the mind of Joseph Smith as he surveyed the declarations made by the churches of his community concerning who is right and who is wrong. Joseph said:"'In the midst of this war of words and tumult of opinions,I often said to myself:What is to be done? Who of all these parties are right;or,are they all wrong together? If any one of them be right,which is it,and how shall I know it? . . ." 'At length I came to the conclusion that I must either remain in darkness and confusion,or else I must do as James directs,that is,ask of God' (Joseph Smith—History 1:10,13)." He prayed.
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Originally Posted by
Father_JD
Just so you know, Joseph Smith AND Thomas Monson have MISAPPLIED and MISUSED the verse from James. NO WHERE in scripture is one commended to PRAY to know the validity of TRUTH PROPOSITIONS. Hence,any "result" can NOT be trusted via this very fractured epistome. Got it?? :rolleyes:
Jesus taught something completely different from what you are proposing.
John 16:3 Howbeit when he,the Spirit of truth, is come,he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself;but whatsoever he shall hear that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Luke 11:9 And I say unto you,Ask, and it shall be given you;seek, and ye shall find;knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
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...The results of that prayer are best described in Joseph's own words. You know them:"'I saw two Personages,whose brightness and glory defy all description,standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me,calling me by name and said,pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!' (Joseph Smith—History 1:17)." Joseph listened;Joseph learned. His question had been answered." [Thomas S. Monson,"Great Expectations" address given at Brigham Young University,Jan. 11,2009]
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Originally Posted by
Father_JD
Yadda. The last of 9 VERSIONS. Yawn.
Joseph Smith gave several accounts of the First Vision. If this is supposed to prove that he had no such vision you are mistaken.
The fact that he gave different accounts of the First Vision is no more probematic then there are four different writers of the gospels in the New Testament,each giving varying accounts of the life and mission of Jesus.
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Originally Posted by
Father_JD
And now we'll witness just HOW you EQUIVOCATE the BIBLICAL MEANING OF THE TERM TO MAKE IT MEAN SOMETHING "ELSE":
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Originally Posted by
Mesenja
In your question there is the implication that I do not have any ***urance of my salvation. First let me say that I have salvation.
The scriptures teach something completely different from what you have proposed.
Matthew !9:16 ¶ And,behold,one came and said unto him,Good Master, what good thing shall I do,that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him,Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one,that is,God: but if thou wilt enter into life,keep the commandments.
John 14:15 ¶ If ye love me,keep my commandments.
1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy,and understand all mysteries,and all knowledge;and though I have all faith,so that I could remove mountains,and have not charity,I am nothing.
Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing,nor uncircumcision;but faith which worketh by love.
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified,and not by faith only.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also
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Originally Posted by
Mesenja
Before continuing it is necessary that the gospel of Jesus Christ be explained as
salvation comes by having obeyed the gospel as "
faith cometh by hearing,and hearing by the word of God. " (
Romans 10:13-17)"
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The gospel of Jesus Christ is the plan of salvation. It embraces all of the laws,principles, doctrines, rites,ordinances, acts,powers,authorities,and keys necessary to save and exalt men in the highest heaven hereafter. It is the covenant of salvation which the Lord makes with men on earth." [Elder Bruce R. McConkie,Mormon Doctrine]
Quote:
Good Christian people sometimes attach different meanings to some key gospel terms like saved or salvation. If we answer according to what our questioner probably means in asking if we have been “saved,” our answer must be “yes.” If we answer according to the various meanings we attach to the terms saved or salvation,our answer will be either “yes” or “yes,but with conditions.” [Dallin H. Oaks,“Have You Been Saved?,”Ensign,May 1998,55]
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Originally Posted by
Father_JD
And since there are "conditions",ultimately the Mormon can NOT know he possesses salvation in the BIBLICAL sense.
There is no such thing as having an absolute ***urance of salvation. One can only be confident of one’s present salvation.
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: 7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all,because I have you in my heart;inasmuch as both in my bonds,and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel,ye all are partakers of my grace.
2 Corinthians 4:4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
1 Corinthians 9:27 But I keep under my body,and bring it into subjection:lest that by any means,when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
2 Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness,which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
We also must abide by the condition of enduring to the end if we are to receive salvation.
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end,the same shall be saved.
2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Come on, Brother Bales, teach us
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Originally Posted by
Mesenja
1. The symbol of the Trinity Triangle: is it Voodoo?
2. The symbol of Hand Grips in Christ’s resurrection: is it Masonic?
3.The Medical Symbol of the snake coiled around a winged staff: is it Skull & Bones?
4. The symbol of the Horn Hand: is Christ a heavy metal rocker?
5. The symbol of the Eye in Triangle: are Christians Illuminati?
6. The symbol of the Jesus Fish: is it pagan?
7. The symbol of the Inverted Cross: is the apostle Peter a satanist?
8.The symbol of the Pentagram: are Boy Scouts satanists?
----Shoe Dog said the answer to number 8 is "yes," but I haven't seen Teacher Russ give any answers. Is it possible that he doesn't know much about historical Christianity, even though he claims to be part of it? Maybe ATTENDING some cl***es, to learn about his own religion, should be a higher priority than TEACHING cl***es attacking other people's beliefs. After all, eternal life is knowing God and the Son whom He sent---not knowing how to type talking points that ridicule other people's beliefs.
Scene on Judgment Day
God: Russ, it's time to decide whether I should give you eternal life. What did you do during your time on Planet Earth?
Russ: Well, I mocked lots of LDS people and their leaders and beliefs. Is that worth a lot of points?
God: Not so much, Russ. A better use of your time would have been learning about Me and My Son, and using what you learned to become like Us.
Russ: Oh. Are re-dos allowed? Judgment Day is not too late, right? Is there some makeup work I could do for extra credit? I could go mock some OTHER groups, if you want.
God: It seems you just don't get what was important in life. Do you like warm weather--extremely warm, to be exact?
Devil's Horn Sign in Baseball
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ser_2_crop.jpg
Minnesota Twins pitcher Boof Bonser using the devil horn sign to show his allegiance to Satan.
Is Jesus a heavy metal rocker?
Actual video of Satan discovered
Stop the presses, it appears that one of your intrepid members of the Ministry of Extremist Whistle****ers- or MEOW for short--has uncovered an actual video of Satan, and apparently he is LDS! Who knew? (Somehow Methodist Hillary Clinton is involved as well, for reasons that are unclear, but hey, it slanders the LDS so it must all be true, right?)
Impeccable sources and top-notch scholarship! ENJOY!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG0c5...1&feature=fvwp