ALL sins are "mortal" unless they're removed by the Blood of Christ. "Venial/Mortal" is nothing more that ANOTHER pagan infusion in to the visible church.
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ALL sins are "mortal" unless they're removed by the Blood of Christ. "Venial/Mortal" is nothing more that ANOTHER pagan infusion in to the visible church.
1 john 5 17,18Quote:
If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray.
17
All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.
This text shows a difference bewteen sin that causes death(mortal) and sin that doesn't(venial)
We sin everyday. So why do christians in general will say somebody who doesn't show the fruits of salvation isn't saved? if you see your brother commiting adultry you will worry about his salvation. Why if a sin as a sin. whats the differnece between having a brief bad thought towards someone and running him over with your car. Lurther believed you could murder many times a day and be saved.
I don't believe that a person has to sin every day. If you sin, John says you're of the devil.Quote:
1 john 5 17,18
If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray.
17
All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.
This text shows a difference bewteen sin that causes death(mortal) and sin that doesn't(venial)
We sin everyday. So why do christians in general will say somebody who doesn't show the fruits of salvation isn't saved? if you see your brother commiting adultry you will worry about his salvation. Why if a sin as a sin. whats the differnece between having a brief bad thought towards someone and running him over with your car. Lurther believed you could murder many times a day and be saved.
That the "Jews" believed in it is one pretty good indication that it's a pagan concept since it's never taught in the Bible, but obviously believed in by 'ol Judas Maccabeus. But HEY - the Catholics rejected that book as being canonical from the get-go. It's a little disingenuous to use it as the basis for a whole doctrine, don'cha think?????
And you make the common Catholic/Mormon/JW/CofC mistake of failing to differentiate between "in order to", and "Because of".
Sure we're to be obedient - no problem there. But our obedience is "BECAUSE" of our faith. Not the "Source" of it.
"All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly."
The Romanist "spin" on the Word is PURE foolishness, of course. You'd have to toss the ENTIRE BALANCE of the Bible away to believe that stupidity.
ALL SIN leads to death - PERIOD What the p***age is REALLY saying is that some sin results in death NOW - and some sins result in death LATER. Ananias and Sapphira were two whose sin was "unto death".
The Catholic Heresy about "venial sin" is based on NOTHING but pagan tradition.
I don't believe the 'once saved' concept. the Bible teaches we are being sanctified daily. We also sin daily. Even when we don't intend to.Quote:
I depend on the Lord's mercy and love. He is my best friend, I know He is with me at all times. the Lord is with you also. Tell Him you love Him. :)
jean, p2
Well, I don't agree that we have to sin EVERY day, because I think part of Sanctification is the strength and ability to resist sin. I don't believe that it means that we no longer are capable of sinning though. I know I fail God and sin, but there are times where I lay down my head at night with a clean spirit and Conscience and just know that all is right. At other times I'm convicted of something and know that I need to repent of whatever it was.Quote:
I don't believe the 'once saved' concept. the Bible teaches we are being sanctified daily. We also sin daily. Even when we don't intend to.
I depend on the Lord's mercy and love. He is my best friend, I know He is with me at all times. the Lord is with you also. Tell Him you love Him. :)
jean, p2
I'm telling ya though, it's the best feeling ever when you know that you don't have to pray for forgiveness at night and you can just concentrate on praising God and worshipping him. Those are the nights that I sleep the best on.
Faith, hope, and love are the building blocks for peace, and serenity. This is the mark God has set for us. It is when we can claim this condition that we are 'truly' saved. It starts in this life, but it does not happen over night. A great deal of change, and growth must first take place within us. We must be willing to allow God to create His vessels. This is true salvation, and something few are ever developed into."Quote:
Saint Paul didn't think so.
1 cor 4:4 I am not conscious of anything against me, but I do not thereby stand acquitted; the one who judges me is the Lord.
5
Therefore, do not make any judgment before the appointed time, until the Lord comes, for he will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will manifest the motives of our hearts, and then everyone will receive praise from God.
1 cor 9:27 No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified
Not only did paul not think he was ***ured of salvation but he also thought that he could lose it.
Rom 11:22 See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.
Paul also warn us of us too being cut off
Heb 10:26 If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins
27
but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.
Again we are warned that deliberate sin results in us being cut off.
He who endure till the end will be saved Matt 24
I know there is alot of scripture that says no one will take us out of Gods hands. I would say to that aslong as we remain in the eternal sonship of christ thats true but not if we turn away in sin.
As for eternal life, I believe what Christ accomplished extends beyond our religious ideologies, and our personal beliefs (He is our salvation - None come to the father but through Him). I don't think it necessary to believe in the man Jesus however, but rather to have an indwelling of the Spirit/light/Word that He manifest....
We can attain the kingdom right here on earth [At least in part]. After death, I think we are granted access to the fullness of the kingdom, which [is] the unknown. It starts here with us, and within us. I was just thinking last night as I was drifting off to sleep - that the more each individual attains degree's of the "Kingdom condition" a little better does the world get.
It starts with us, right here on earth - Like a snowball, as each individual attains a Kingdom mindest, (Seek ye first the Kingdom of God) God's kingdom on earth increases. One day, I believe that the earth will be filled with God's children - Those who live and die for His purpose. I always want to go back to the Lords prayer - It is a beautiful prayer and it is quite telling of what is to come to p*** [imo]
"Our Father which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, they will be done on earth as it is is heaven"
GK
John 17Quote:
As for eternal life, I believe what Christ accomplished extends beyond our religious ideologies, and our personal beliefs (He is our salvation - None come to the father but through Him). I don't think it necessary to believe in the man Jesus however, but rather to have an indwelling of the Spirit/light/Word that He manifest....
1 WHEN JESUS had spoken these things, He lifted up His eyes to heaven and said, Father, the hour has come. Glorify and exalt and honor and magnify Your Son, so that Your Son may glorify and extol and honor and magnify You.
2 [Just as] You have granted Him power and authority over all flesh (all humankind), [now glorify Him] so that He may give eternal life to all whom You have given Him.
3 And this is eternal life: [it means] to know (to perceive, recognize, become acquainted with, and understand) You, the only true and real God, and [likewise] to know Him, Jesus [as the] Christ (the Anointed One, the Messiah), Whom You have sent.
It isn't anyone's ideology. It is what Jesus taught. We can no more accept Jesus as our teacher while denying His message than our president could deny the message of Rev. Jeremiah Wright while still accepting him as his teacher. That is why he denounced the Rev. Wright. So that he could gain people's favor and thus win the election.
Quote:
We can attain the kingdom right here on earth [At least in part]. After death, I think we are granted access to the fullness of the kingdom, which [is] the unknown. It starts here with us, and within us. I was just thinking last night as I was drifting off to sleep - that the more each individual attains degree's of the "Kingdom condition" a little better does the world get.
It starts with us, right here on earth - Like a snowball, as each individual attains a Kingdom mindest, (Seek ye first the Kingdom of God) God's kingdom on earth increases. One day, I believe that the earth will be filled with God's children - Those who live and die for His purpose. I always want to go back to the Lords prayer - It is a beautiful prayer and it is quite telling of what is to come to p*** [imo]
"Our Father which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, they will be done on earth as it is is heaven"
GK
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will p*** away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.- Revelation 21:1
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth p***ed away, and there is no longer any sea.
Seems to me that it would be a waste of time trying to regenerate this world and remake it into God's Kingdom since God/Jesus said it is p***ing away and that it and it's works will be burned up. Then there will be a "new" earth. :eek:
Our purpose is not to build His Kingdom right here on earth.
Our purpose is to know God and the One He sent.
This is the second part of our purpose.
Matthew 28
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Am I ***ured of my salvation?
Romans 8
10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
You betcha!
I'm quite confident that what Jesus accomplished on the cross extends beyond our mental concepts of Him. He resides in the heart of man. We know him the very same way we know G-d. Christ's words were not His own, but the fathers who dwelt in Him. G-d is Love (1 John 4) We know G-d, and His son by knowing Him as such, and loving as we have been commanded Christ was/is G-ds love personifiedQuote:
John 17
1 WHEN JESUS had spoken these things, He lifted up His eyes to heaven and said, Father, the hour has come. Glorify and exalt and honor and magnify Your Son, so that Your Son may glorify and extol and honor and magnify You.
2 [Just as] You have granted Him power and authority over all flesh (all humankind), [now glorify Him] so that He may give eternal life to all whom You have given Him.
3 And this is eternal life: [it means] to know (to perceive, recognize, become acquainted with, and understand) You, the only true and real God, and [likewise] to know Him, Jesus [as the] Christ (the Anointed One, the Messiah), Whom You have sent.
It isn't anyone's ideology. It is what Jesus taught. We can no more accept Jesus as our teacher while denying His message than our president could deny the message of Rev. Jeremiah Wright while still accepting him as his teacher. That is why he denounced the Rev. Wright. So that he could gain people's favor and thus win the election.
Seems to me that heaven will p*** away also. The new heaven and new earth describes a restored Eden/paradise/earth. Why would you feel it a waste of time to help others realize the 'kingdom within themselves when this is what we are called to do?Quote:
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will p*** away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.- Revelation 21:1
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth p***ed away, and there is no longer any sea.
Seems to me that it would be a waste of time trying to regenerate this world and remake it into God's Kingdom since God/Jesus said it is p***ing away and that it and it's works will be burned up. Then there will be a "new" earth. :eek:
Quote:
Our purpose is not to build His Kingdom right here on earth.
Our purpose is to know God and the One He sent.
This is the second part of our purpose.
Seek ye first the kingdom of G-d.
Quote:
Matthew 28
What is a disciple? What is the good news/gospel. My belief is that a disciple is one who has been disciplined to live according to G-ds will. I also believe that we are to teach and help others realize the kingdom of G-d within themselves, which is the good news of the Gospel. (True Salvation)Quote:
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
I would hope for no less for any whom live to serve our Lord....Quote:
Am I ***ured of my salvation?
Romans 8
10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
You betcha!
GK
Hi Gatekeeper,Quote:
I'm quite confident that what Jesus accomplished on the cross extends beyond our mental concepts of Him. He resides in the heart of man. We know him the very same way we know G-d. Christ's words were not His own, but the fathers who dwelt in Him. G-d is Love (1 John 4) We know G-d, and His son by knowing Him as such, and loving as we have been commanded Christ was/is G-ds love personified
I don't believe that knowing God and the One He sent is a mental concept but an intimate(close) relationship. A mental concept to me would be knowing about either or both. I know about President Obama but I do not know him. I know my friends and family as well as knowing about them. I am close to them and converse with them on a daily basis.
True, that's what the scriptures that I posted said, the heavens and the earth. Nobody said anything about the kingdom within (spiritual kingdom) but as for this world it is a physical place which it isn't our *** to make into a paradise. By the way nobody except those who have been born again have the kingdom within. So I would rather help others get the "kingdom of God" within them.Quote:
Originally Posted by GateKeeper
Seems to me that heaven will p*** away also. The new heaven and new earth describes a restored Eden/paradise/earth. Why would you feel it a waste of time to help others realize the 'kingdom within themselves when this is what we are called to do?
No argument here except that you won't find the kingdom of God in or through anyone or anything but Jesus.
Here's the rest of the story. :)
Matthew 6
31 Therefore do not worry and be anxious, saying, What are we going to have to eat? or, What are we going to have to drink? or, What are we going to have to wear?
32 For the Gentiles (heathen) wish for and crave and diligently seek all these things, and your heavenly Father knows well that you need them all.
33 But seek (aim at and strive after) first of all His kingdom and His righteousness (His way of doing and being right), and then all these things taken together will be given you besides.
34 So do not worry or be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will have worries and anxieties of its own. Sufficient for each day is its own trouble.
You see when you read the rest of the verses you see here that Jesus was speaking of seeking His Kingdom and His righteousness before you seek material things and food and clothing. It certainly doesn't imply that one should seek His kingdom before seeking Him.
What is His Kingdom? Knowing Jesus the King and being His loyal servant?
Disciple = mathētēs in greek.Quote:
What is a disciple? What is the good news/gospel. My belief is that a disciple is one who has been disciplined to live according to G-ds will. I also believe that we are to teach and help others realize the kingdom of G-d within themselves, which is the good news of the Gospel. (True Salvation)
It means 1) a learner, pupil, disciple.
My belief from this definition is that being a disciple has more to do with learning from God and being a student/pupil of God/Jesus than it has to do with someone who disciplines himself. Although I agree that a person who listens and learns from God will live according to God's will.
Again, I don't believe the kingdom is within unless you've been born again so it's not so much teaching others that they already have God inside them but that they must be born again to see the kingdom of God.
John 3
1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews;
2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him."
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
Now I am aware that Jesus did say "the kingdom of God, is in your midst".
Luke 17
20 Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; 21 nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."
But again we need to look at the context in which it is written. Jesus was being questioned by the Pharisees as always. They wanted to know when the Kingdom of God was coming. They were looking for a literal kingdom in which they would have a man to rule over them. What they got when Jesus showed up was the spiritual kingdom which is within the souls of those who received Him and are born of the Spirit.
I don't believe it's an indication that the Kingdom of God is in every person and they just needed to discover it. I believe that Jesus was simply telling them that it(the kingdom of God) wouldn't be something you could see or touch (tangible) but something that will be within you.
AMEN! No need to hope for it. It is a fact for those who love and serve God and have been called according to His purpose. :)
YES!....Im ***ured of my salvation!
one of the marks that you are in a CULT is that they got to keep you guessing if you are saved or not?
Thats the hook the CULTs put into you and keeps you close and only looking to the CULT for your salvation....even if you dont think you are at the time.
Lets take a look at how this is true for members of the JW cult.
The average JW at your door has no lasting feeling that they are eternally saved.
What they feel is that if they work hard for the Watchtower that this will count toward their salvation.
But this also means that if they don't work then they have lost their one chance for salvation.
This is the hook the Watchtower Org has over it's members.
First it teaches that you cant ever be 100% sure you are always saved.
Then next they tell you that you can only learn the truth from the Watchtower org.
Thus the JW at your door is there because they simply have no real ***urance of their own salvation and so they are attempting to earn salvation "points" as it were, by doing door-to-door witnessing to spread the hold of the Watchtower to more people.
This same way of getting hooks into people under their control is common to all the CULTS....
But its not the way we are to believe, nor act...
I am a Christian.
Im saved by Grace though faith.
Im not kept saved by works.
Christians do not earn their salvation via works, nor do we maintain our salvation via works.
If it was all up to me to keep myself saved I might as well give up right now....
I say again...
one of the marks that you are in a CULT is that they got to keep you guessing if you are saved or not?
Thats the hook the CULTs put into you and keeps you close and only looking to the CULT for your salvation....even if you dont think you are at the time.
Lets take a look at how this is true for members of the JW cult.
The average JW at your door has no lasting feeling that they are eternally saved.
What they feel is that if they work hard for the Watchtower that this will count toward their salvation.
But this also means that if they don't work then they have lost their one chance for salvation.
This is the hook the Watchtower Org has over it's members.
First it teaches that you cant ever be 100% sure you are always saved.
Then next they tell you that you can only learn the truth from the Watchtower org.
Thus the JW at your door is there because they simply have no real ***urance of their own salvation and so they are attempting to earn salvation "points" as it were, by doing door-to-door witnessing to spread the hold of the Watchtower to more people.
This same way of getting hooks into people under their control is common to all the CULTS....
But its not the way we are to believe, nor act...
I am a Christian.
Im saved by Grace though faith.
Im not kept saved by works.
Many CULTS use Hebrews 6 to teach that a person can lose their salvation...
Here is what Walter martin says about this topic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YZ5b6UJ1NQ