Is God unable to create in kind?

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Libby

How can you create an uncreated being?

You can't conjure up. But you can beget an uncreated being. Humans beget beings in kind all the time. Depending on your definition of "create" we don't create them do we?

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

You can't conjure up. But you can beget an uncreated being. Humans beget beings in kind all the time. Depending on your definition of "create" we don't create them do we?

No. God does that through the biological process He created.

I'm just saying, it's not logical that an "uncreated" being could be created. God has no beginning or end, so He was not created...He has always existed. How could, even HE, "create" something that has always existed?

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Libby

No. God does that through the biological process He created.

I'm just saying, it's not logical that an "uncreated" being could be created. God has no beginning or end, so He was not created...He has always existed. How could, even HE, "create" something that has always existed?

So if God can create a biological process to beget life, why can't he create a spirit process to beget spirit life?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

So if God can create a biological process to beget life, why can't he create a spirit process to beget spirit life?

I am not saying that He didn't create spirit.. The Bible says that He did.. He just did it within us.. (Zech 12:1) Mormonism denys that saying that god created our spirits and place our preexisting spirit in it.. Like most LDS doctrine this one is upside down.. IHS jim

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I am not saying that He didn't create spirit.. The Bible says that He did.. He just did it within us.. (Zech 12:1) Mormonism denys that saying that god created our spirits and place our preexisting spirit in it.. Like most LDS doctrine this one is upside down.. IHS jim

Not quite. You are confused. Care to try again?

Or you could always ask to find out what we really believe.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Not quite. You are confused. Care to try again?

Or you could always ask to find out what we really believe.

Have you read and prayed about the meaning? Doesn't sound. I could get as hateful as you did here and was very tempted to be so.. Maybe you should take some time off so you can treat others with a level a civility..IHS jim

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Have you read and prayed about the meaning? Doesn't sound. I could get as hateful as you did here and was very tempted to be so.. Maybe you should take some time off so you can treat others with a level a civility..IHS jim

I'm just saying that your information wasn't quite right. If you would like to be corrected, all you need do is ask...politely.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

I'm just saying that your information wasn't quite right. If you would like to be corrected, all you need do is ask...politely.

I am saying that being corrected by someone who looks to a man like Joseph Smith as being a prophet of God has nothing to teach anyone.. My doctrine is correct being Biblical. Just by saying that it isn't shows that you are so far from God's truth that you have much more to learn than you have to teach.. IHS jim

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I am saying that being corrected by someone who looks to a man like Joseph Smith as being a prophet of God has nothing to teach anyone.. My doctrine is correct being Biblical. Just by saying that it isn't shows that you are so far from God's truth that you have much more to learn than you have to teach.. IHS jim

So your representation of LDS beliefs was not correct, and you don't want to be corrected? OK, Got it.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

So your representation of LDS beliefs was not correct, and you don't want to be corrected? OK, Got it.

Since there are just about as many views of what mormonism is as there are mormons I an not surprised that you think I am wrong.. I guess when I was among you I had a different view of what the doctrine was.. Now if I have to beg you to share your view I am not interested.. I will just see you as one more mormon that believes they can pick and choose the commandments they want to keep.. As I read the Great Commission I see that I am called to tell the whole world about my faith..

Matthew 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

That is my interpretation of the p***age I don't know or understand how you could get anything else out of it.. IHS jim

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Since there are just about as many views of what mormonism is as there are mormons I an not surprised that you think I am wrong.. I guess when I was among you I had a different view of what the doctrine was.. Now if I have to beg you to share your view I am not interested...

Well, I suppose that sometimes maintaining one's ignorance is the best comfort he can find.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Well, I suppose that sometimes maintaining one's ignorance is the best comfort he can find.

So that's what you are doing... I challenged my belief in mormonism and that challenge lead me to truth.. You have not even looked into the the if the teachings of Joseph Smith were true or where his later teachings came from.. You haven't worked out how God being Spirit can be true when Smith said that God isn't a spirit but a person of flesh and bone (D&C 130:22).. Or why a Book translated by the power of God had to undergo over 3,000 changes to get it right.. Or how David and Solomon could be an abomination in Jacob 2 of the BofM and justified in the 132 section of the D&C.. Why is the Bible so completely adamant that salvation is by God's grace through faith (John 3:15-16, Eph 2:8-9) and yet Joseph Smith have built in works that are the requirements (water baptism, laying on of hands, priesthoods, and temple endowment) for everlasting life?

Yes It looks as though I just gave up real truth and ran into error doesn't? NOT.. I actually look deep into the error and begged Jesus to forgive me and make me His child (John 1:12).. IHS jim

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by James Banta

So that's what you are doing... I challenged my belief in mormonism and that challenge lead me to truth.. You have not even looked into the the if the teachings of Joseph Smith were true or where his later teachings came from.. You haven't worked out how God being Spirit can be true when Smith said that God isn't a spirit but a person of flesh and bone (D&C 130:22).. Or why a Book translated by the power of God had to undergo over 3,000 changes to get it right.. Or how David and Solomon could be an abomination in Jacob 2 of the BofM and justified in the 132 section of the D&C.. Why is the Bible so completely adamant that salvation is by God's grace through faith (John 3:15-16, Eph 2:8-9) and yet Joseph Smith have built in works that are the requirements (water baptism, laying on of hands, priesthoods, and temple endowment) for everlasting life?

Yes It looks as though I just gave up real truth and ran into error doesn't? NOT.. I actually look deep into the error and begged Jesus to forgive me and make me His child (John 1:12).. IHS jim

But it looks like either a) you never understood LDS doctrine when you were IN the Church. or b) you forgot what you believed, and now are bent on misrepresenting yourself by making statements that are not accurate.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

But it looks like either a) you never understood LDS doctrine when you were IN the Church. or b) you forgot what you believed, and now are bent on misrepresenting yourself by making statements that are not accurate.

If and when I misrepresent church doctrine point it out.. I have been in Gospel Doctrine cl***es where members have disagreed on points of doctrine before.. Just because you say what the doctrine of the church is doesn't make it so.. IHS jim

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by James Banta

If and when I misrepresent church doctrine point it out.. I have been in Gospel Doctrine cl***es where members have disagreed on points of doctrine before.. Just because you say what the doctrine of the church is doesn't make it so.. IHS jim

You got that right Jim.

How many times have we seen mormons on these boards claim that even the things that Smith and Young said were not doctrine even though they taught it as doctrine?

Andy

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by James Banta

If and when I misrepresent church doctrine point it out..

OK, when you said this:

Mormonism denys that saying that god created our spirits and place our preexisting spirit in it.. Like most LDS doctrine this one is upside down.. IHS jim

Do you see what is misrepresentative about this?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

OK, when you said this:



Do you see what is misrepresentation about this?

No Mormonism teaches that God created our spirits and placed them into. First the spirit then the physical body later.. The Bible says (Very clearly) that God Created the spirit of man within him (Zech 12:1) By saying that Mormonism is teaching other than that it is NOT a misrepresentation unless you want to tell me that God didn't create the the spirit of man in a pre-existence.. I am willing to talk about this teaching if you an tell me something new that I am not aware of.. But if the mormon god created the spirits of man before there was a body to created it in I am solid in my statements. IHS jim

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

But it looks like either a) you never understood LDS doctrine when you were IN the Church. or b) you forgot what you believed, and now are bent on misrepresenting yourself by making statements that are not accurate.

Why are you so bent on lying?

Do you think that will somehow change the fact that mormonism is a false religion and in no way whatsoever Christian?

Andy

[stemelbow]

Interesting question in light of mainstreamism. How could Jesus' person be uncreated if His person was not around before God created? Did Jesus' person become uncreated the very moment God conjured up the idea that He needed a Jesus (man/God) to save mankind?

love,
stem

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by stemelbow

Interesting question in light of mainstreamism. How could Jesus' person be uncreated if His person was not around before God created? Did Jesus' person become uncreated the very moment God conjured up the idea that He needed a Jesus (man/God) to save mankind?

love,
stem

John 1:1-2
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.

That seems to answer your question.. Jesus was with God and Jesus is God.. There was never a time when the Father "conjured up the idea that He needed a Jesus (man/God) to save mankind". God was always there and always knew what He was doing the whole time.. IHS jim

[stemelbow]

Originally Posted by James Banta

John 1:1-2
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.

That seems to answer your question.. Jesus was with God and Jesus is God.. There was never a time when the Father "conjured up the idea that He needed a Jesus (man/God) to save mankind". God was always there and always knew what He was doing the whole time.. IHS jim

Your ***umptions that you have read into John address my question a little but not wholly. The p***age does not come close to answering my question as it is. So are you saying that there never was a time when Jesus' person was not? Was there a point when God was but one person?

love,
stem

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by stemelbow

Your ***umptions that you have read into John address my question a little but not wholly. The p***age does not come close to answering my question as it is. So are you saying that there never was a time when Jesus' person was not? Was there a point when God was but one person?

love,
stem

God has always been God he changes NOT.. He has always been as He is now.. He said so Himself:

Mal 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not...

Of course there are cultist that deny Him and His word... IHS jim

[stemelbow]

You didn't address my specific questions again, James. Please try again.

love,
stem

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by stemelbow

You didn't address my specific questions again, James. Please try again.

love,
stem

I believe I have, Sorry you can't seem to understand the answer. Go read it again... IHS jim

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Libby

No. God does that through the biological process He created.

I'm just saying, it's not logical that an "uncreated" being could be created. God has no beginning or end, so He was not created...He has always existed. How could, even HE, "create" something that has always existed?

Interesting thought Libby, as I am sure you are aware that LDS believe that our natures (intelligences) are not created, but always were. In this way, our nature to sin was not created by God---but always was.