Is God unable to create in kind?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---You're saying that God predestined everyone for salvation? What about your Carm friends who claim that the Bible teaches that God CREATED some people to be vessels for destruction? And that David said he was born in iniquity, a sinner right from the womb? Are you saying your Carm friends, and FJD and Libby are wrong? That they believe non-Christian doctrines?


---You are a man, correct? God created you, correct? Are you saying that God created you with a perfect nature?



--What you have said--that we were created with the ability to choose our own destiny, that it wasn't predestinated before the world was created, that we were made with a perfect nature--all that CONTRADICTS TULIP.

Listen it's because we are predestined to salvation not to wrath. This is what I find as I look into predestined:

Rom 8:29-30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestined, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Eph 1:5,11
Having predestined us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will

Not one mention of being predestined to wrath.. That is what I meant not that all were predestined to life.. Just that no one is predestined to wrath. IHS jim

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Listen it's because we are predestined to salvation not to wrath.

----So you believe that God has predestinated all people to be saved? That is an interesting idea, one that I think your Carm friends will have "issues" over. Besides, I thought you said you believe that God gave everyone free will, the freedom to choose. If He predestinated us all to be saved, how can we have any choice in whether we are saved or not?

Not one mention of being predestined to wrath.. That is what I meant not that all were predestined to life.. Just that no one is predestined to wrath.

---But you said "we are predestined to salvation not to wrath." Now you're saying the opposite--that NOT all of us are predestined to "life" which I presume you equate with salvation. As for "no one is predestined to wrath" I guess you haven't paid attention to your Calvinistic Carm friends when they claimed that the CHRISTIAN doctrine is that God, in His sovereignty, MADE some of us to be nothing BUT vessels fated for wrath. They cite the Bible parable about the pot maker (not the marijuana kind) who intended SOME of his pots to be lasting things of treasured beauty, but who intended OTHER pots--even before he MADE them--to be "mistakes" that were destined to be shattered. It's in Father JD's favorite part of the Bible, Romans 9:

20 The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?

21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?

22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,