Gay Marriage

[IncitingRiots]

Thanks for the dictionary definition of indulgence, it was not needed but thanks anyway.

No, that statement doesn't say anything about the qualifications, but if one were to read more than just the first page they would learn. None of that changes the fact that you so arrogantly tried to liken pedophiles to Satanists because of what you consider to be indulgence.

To answer your last question; who is forcing them? The answer is quite simple. They are forcing themselves. For some sick and twisted reason I will never understand they feel the need to do these sorts of things. They know it is illegal and immoral yet they do it anyways. They are weak-willed scum of the earth and I wouldn't mind personally executing every last one of them.
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Concerning MacG:

"I bet that among these people they see the gentle love and affection for these kids that you fail to see because of your p***ionate baseless bias. Who are you to say they don't real love just because you find it repulsing? So what if people consider it a disease, who are "they" to make judgements and demonize a segmment of our society?"

I am disgusted that you would actually try to defend these people! Are you a Catholic Priest? That would make sense if you were. We have laws for a reason. Children are easily taken advantage of and are very naive. What these people do is wrong regardless of the legality. Even if for some horrid reason it were legalized; it would still be wrong. If these people truly loved anybody they would be able to respect the laws and wait until the person comes of legal age. I can't believe I have to argue this. And no, apparently we don;t share a common ground. You are a pedophile apologist, and I think you should executed with the people you are defending!

[MacG]

Originally Posted by IncitingRiots

Concerning MacG:

"I bet that among these people they see the gentle love and affection for these kids that you fail to see because of your p***ionate baseless bias. Who are you to say they don't real love just because you find it repulsing? So what if people consider it a disease, who are "they" to make judgements and demonize a segmment of our society?"

I am disgusted that you would actually try to defend these people! Are you a Catholic Priest? That would make sense if you were. We have laws for a reason. Children are easily taken advantage of and are very naive. What these people do is wrong regardless of the legality. Even if for some horrid reason it were legalized; it would still be wrong. If these people truly loved anybody they would be able to respect the laws and wait until the person comes of legal age. I can't believe I have to argue this. And no, apparently we don;t share a common ground. You are a pedophile apologist, and I think you should executed with the people you are defending!

IR,

I thought that you wanted intelligent debate, I was palying the Devils' Advocate (no pun intended). Which is why we do have something in common afterall for I was not really defending them. My point was who are you to ***ert your moral values on society? Or judge other's values to be wrong?

The FEW Catholic Priests out of the many thousands that have lived out their evil on those abused are the plane crashes of the Catholic Faith. It is still considered safe to fly but maybe not however for those who survived one of the crashes.

Regarding the term evil. I meant no offense to you by its use, what term do you use to describe such acts? Is it evil? Or what defines evil to you? Ah, perhaps that should be answered in another thread.

I do find it interesting that there are rules respecting anything other than yourself and the santanic principles. This exposes my bias and I am a bit more informed.

Perhaps I mistook you for a relativist whose feet are planted frimly in mid-air, as you do actually have a standard to measure other things by. My ignorant understanding of satanism was pretty much, all for me, too bad for you and whatever the Bible says make it opposite. My apologies.

Blessings,

MacG

[IncitingRiots]

"My point was who are you to ***ert your moral values on society? Or judge other's values to be wrong?"

Point well taken, but I could ask you the same question. I don't feel like I am ***erting my values on society at all. There are universal morals and then there are individual morals. It seems to me that pedophilia should fall under the category of being universally wrong. Then again, I am sure you make the same argument about ****sexuality. I can sense a circular argument taking shape.

"Regarding the term evil. I meant no offense to you by its use, what term do you use to describe such acts? Is it evil? Or what defines evil to you?"

I didn't even notice you use the term evil so I took no offence to it. To me evil and good are really subjective. What one person deems to be evil another person might consider it to be good. For the sake of argument let's use Hitler as an example. What he did is seen by people the world over as being evil. To him he thought what he was doing was good. I am not condoning genocide, just using an example. The person who gives half their paycheck to charity every month and is seen as a good person is just as capable of going on a killing spree, as the serial killer; who is seen as evil, is capable of loving a puppy. To me there really is no such thing as evil, there is only good and bad. Even then nothing is really good or bad, it just is. Notions of good, evil, right and wrong ultimately depend, I think, on moral subjectivity.

[oatmeal]

Since God ins***uted marriage and authored it's definition, I believe the state should hold to His ruling......
****sexuals are free to breathe, eat, provide their shelter, defend their lives,
and pursue happiness.
But it is interminably clear that God has witheld from them not only holy matrimony, but indeed, the very act that defines them.


You can change and redefine state laws; but God's holy word does not change.
As far as why we are seeing this thing blossom and grow out of all proportion
to it's real size, I believe you will find the answer to that in JohnD's post.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by oatmeal

But it is interminably clear that God has witheld from them not only holy matrimony,

Matrimony can only be regarded as "holy" if it is consecrated by a given religious body. I support the rights of religious bodies to determine who they will and will not marry.

The Catholic church will not bless the union of divorcees. There is neither reason nor basis to enshrine such restriction in civil law - if only for the quite obvious reason that not everyone is Catholic!

Likewise, whether you or your religious body believes that "God has withheld" marriage from same-sex couples, that does not stand as a reasonable basis for restricting them under civil law.

but indeed, the very act that defines them.

That you regard the sex act as the defining characteristic of gay and lesbian people is most telling.

[oatmeal]

[QUOTE=asdf;28160]Matrimony can only be regarded as "holy" if it is consecrated by a given religious body. I support the rights of religious bodies to determine who they will and will not marry.

The Catholic church will not bless the union of divorcees. There is neither reason nor basis to enshrine such restriction in civil law - if only for the quite obvious reason that not everyone is Catholic!


Whatsoever God has joined(man and woman)let no man put asunder.
If two be joined in matrimony it is deemed holy by God, save for the cause of divorce.


Likewise, whether you or your religious body believes that "God has withheld" marriage from same-sex couples, that does not stand as a reasonable basis for restricting them under civil law.

God created man and woman, not civil law.....The ins***ute of marriage belongs to God for his purpose, not civil law.



That you regard the sex act as the defining characteristic of gay and lesbian people is most telling.[/QUOTE]




Words have a meaning: actions speak more clearly than words; We have come to a point
in America where we are redefining words and there meanings.
God will not be mocked: He changes not.

[sunofmysoul]

Originally Posted by oatmeal

Since God ins***uted marriage and authored it's definition, I believe the state should hold to His ruling......
****sexuals are free to breathe, eat, provide their shelter, defend their lives,
and pursue happiness.
But it is interminably clear that God has witheld from them not only holy matrimony, but indeed, the very act that defines them.


You can change and redefine state laws; but God's holy word does not change.
As far as why we are seeing this thing blossom and grow out of all proportion
to it's real size, I believe you will find the answer to that in JohnD's post.

a question.

God commanded in the beginning for us to multiply and fill the earth...
procreation was a large part of the initial beginning of marriage.

Do we now believe that all marriage is for this purpose?
Or is one of the primary purposes, changing? Now that we have filled the earth, can marriage have room for those who do not meet the ability to fulfill this command? (we now use birth control which is food for thought...)

A second question, would be what of those who do not fit into the "foreordained ins***ute" definition of male or female? what of the intergender?



thanks,
soms

[sayso]

Originally Posted by IncitingRiots

Thanks for the dictionary definition of indulgence, it was not needed but thanks anyway.

No, that statement doesn't say anything about the qualifications, but if one were to read more than just the first page they would learn. None of that changes the fact that you so arrogantly tried to liken pedophiles to Satanists because of what you consider to be indulgence.

To answer your last question; who is forcing them? The answer is quite simple. They are forcing themselves. For some sick and twisted reason I will never understand they feel the need to do these sorts of things. They know it is illegal and immoral yet they do it anyways. They are weak-willed scum of the earth and I wouldn't mind personally executing every last one of them.

Aren't you applying a double standard to say that as a satanist you may indulge in whatever you like but another may not if what they desire is different then what you desire?

I am sorry if I misunderstood but I thought that when you listed "The nine statements of the satanic bible" you said that they (the statements) say it best. I took that to mean that your entire belief could be summed up in these statements.

Here's another statement you listed:

VIII Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!


So does this mean that satan represents pedophilia since it qualifies as a "so-called sin"? This either means what it says or it doesn't, right?

The way I see it, you personally may not completely understand or believe in all the tenants of your own religion.

Originally Posted by IncitingRiots

As a Satanist I see myself as my own god, the master of my life and my universe. I do not believe in any anthoprmorphic deity of ultimate good or ultimate evil.

For some sick and twisted reason I will never understand they feel the need to do these sorts of things. They know it is illegal and immoral yet they do it anyways. They are weak-willed scum of the earth and I wouldn't mind personally executing every last one of them.

Double standard again. You as a satanist can be your own god, unaccountable to anyone or anything; master of your own universe. However, if someone else lives by this same self-centered standard indulging in their own whims without restraint then because you see it as immoral they should be executed.

[IncitingRiots]

"Aren't you applying a double standard to say that as a satanist you may indulge in whatever you like but another may not if what they desire is different then what you desire?"

I never said people couldn't do what ever desire; they can. However, one must be aware of the consequences of their actions. That is what "responsibility to the responsible" means.

"I thought that when you listed "The nine statements of the satanic bible" you said that they (the statements) say it best. I took that to mean that your entire belief could be summed up in these statements."

No, Satanism can not entirely be summed up by those nine statements, or even the entire Satanic Bible. There is alot to learn about TLHP and you certainly can not get it all from one book. Satanism is a journey, not a destination. The reason I listed those nine statements is because you asked how I can be a Satanist without worshipping Satan. I cordially obliged you in answering your question by informing you that the "Satan" in Satanism is a metaphor and entirely different than the Christian concept of Satan.

"So does this mean that satan represents pedophilia since it qualifies as a "so-called sin"? This either means what it says or it doesn't, right?"

The "sins" that statement refers to the "Seven Deadly Sins". One could argue that pedophilia falls under lust, which, I suppose it could. However, committing an act of pedophilia breaks two of the 11 Satanic Rules of the Earth: "Do not harm little children" and "Do not make sexual advances unless given the mating signal". These "rules" are really more indicative of things the Satanist would avoid doing anyway by their own nature. It really seems now that this discussion has turned from the issue of gay marriage towards you trying to link Satanism with pedophilia. You are doing a horrible ***, if I do say myself.

"The way I see it, you personally may not completely understand or believe in all the tenants of your own religion."

If that is the way you see it; you are blind my friend.

"Double standard again. You as a satanist can be your own god, unaccountable to anyone or anything; master of your own universe. However, if someone else lives by this same self-centered standard indulging in their own whims without restraint then because you see it as immoral they should be executed."

You are putting words in my mouth once again and it is becoming quite annoying. I never said I am unaccountable to anyone or anything. Everyone is is accountable. As I said people must be aware of the consequences of their actions. Sure people can do what ever they want, but, if some sick freak were to molest any of my friends' kid or my nephews; I would see to it they got was coming to them. Then I too, would have to deal with the consequences of my actions. I would be accountable to the State, but when I die; I will not be accountable to anything.

[sayso]

It really seems now that this discussion has turned from the issue of gay marriage towards you trying to link Satanism with pedophilia.

No that isn't really what I'm trying to do. I am aware that in all religions it is wrong to generalize. Simply because someone claims to be of a certain religion that does not mean that they will hold strictly to that religion's belief and statements of doctrine.

Just as there are some who claim to be Christian, who do compromise and do despicable things, there are those in all religions including satanism who do despicable things, because in each case it is the individual who decides whether or not they will follow the "rules" of their own religion.

The only thing that is different about your religion is that you are your own god so that means you make the rules right? Or is your statement about being your own god wrong when it involves satanism? Who is the god who made up the satanic bible?

You are putting words in my mouth once again and it is becoming quite annoying.

Sorry, I didn't mean to annoy you. I'm just trying to understand exactly what restrictions satanism puts on it's followers and if they have no leader who made the rules.

So I guess you are saying that satanists believe in obeying man made laws, huh?

[IncitingRiots]

"Just as there are some who claim to be Christian, who do compromise and do despicable things, there are those in all religions including satanism who do despicable things, because in each case it is the individual who decides whether or not they will follow the "rules" of their own religion."

This is true, but I think someone who claims to follow a religion, system of belief etc. but thinks they can pick and choose what to obey and what not to obey isn't actually a member of that religion. If you have to pick and choose then you are probably subscribing to the wrong set of beliefs.

"The only thing that is different about your religion is that you are your own god so that means you make the rules right?"

Well yes I make my own rules, so does everyone in one way or another. However, we live in a society based on laws and rules that we have to follow in order to function in said society. Yes one can choose to ignore these rules and laws, but they do so at their own peril.

"Who is the god who made up the satanic bible?"

No "god" made up The Satanic Bible. It was written by Anton Lavey and much of it is influenced by the writings of people like Ragnar Redbeard, Ayn Rand, H L Mencken, Jack London and Frederich Neitzche.

"I'm just trying to understand exactly what restrictions satanism puts on it's followers and if they have no leader who made the rules."

They aren't really really restrictions. As I stated these "rules" are nothing more than examples of types of behavior a true Satanist would naturally avoid. They aren't listed to tell you how to "be" a Satanist, they are listed to tell you if you "are" a Satanist. The same goes for The Nine Satanic Sins. They aren't really "sins" just things a Satanist would naturally avoid out of their own volition.

"So I guess you are saying that satanists believe in obeying man made laws, huh? "

Well many do. As do most people out there regardless of their religious affiliation or lack thereof. Not breaking the law is just plain common sense. There are those who feel that, as their own gods, the laws of man don't apply to them. They are en***led to that opinion but have only themselves to blame if they decide to break these laws and get caught.

Personally I am an Anarchist. I feel I don't need a cop to tell me the right thing to do, nor do I need some government trying to dictate what I can and can't do. Unfortunately we do have a government and I don't think that is going to change in my life time so I am bound by these rules simply because I enjoy my own freedom. That is not to say that I would just go around murdering innocent people for no reason, because I wouldn't and if I really wanted to I would do it regardless of the consequences, but I sure wouldn't mind the freedom to grow a giant field of marijuana in my back yard.