Do you see "Salvation" as a "means" or an "end"

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

Would it really be a good idea for the college to give you the degree first, and then tell you to start taking some cl***es after?

But Jeff that is just what God tell us though the Apostle John. He told us that we can KNOW we have Eternal Life now..

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

It's your choice you can believe the scripture or turn away from it.. You seem to have deiced that it is wrong, you appear to have turned away from it.. IHS jim

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by James Banta

But Jeff that is just what God tell us though the Apostle John. He told us that we can KNOW we have Eternal Life now..

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

It's your choice you can believe the scripture or turn away from it.. You seem to have deiced that it is wrong, you appear to have turned away from it.. IHS jim

Does that mean that you can "KNOW NOW", or that you "GET IT NOW"? (It being Eternal Life).

If you have eternal life now, I would suggest that you get read for a long long life, and marry many wives. Cause you are already immortal, apparently.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

You missed my point completely. Reread for comprehension this time.

Marvin

I am sorry you either don't understand my response or you just want to nicely insult me but I see my post as following the conversation completely.. Maybe you have me confused with Bert... IHS jim

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

OK, then, FJD, I want you to repay me, now, the $1000 that I am going to lend you in 10 years. 'Cause that's really the way it works, right?

No, that's NOT how election or soteriology works, jeff. You know better by now...or should.

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

FJD admits that is IS God's way to give the diploma before any studying is done.

God elects, NOT according to works. Why didn't you engage Paul's words, fig?

Is it because you can't gainsay him?

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by James Banta
But Jeff that is just what God tell us though the Apostle John. He told us that we can KNOW we have Eternal Life now..

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.


It's your choice you can believe the scripture or turn away from it.. You seem to have deiced that it is wrong, you appear to have turned away from it.. IHS jim

Does that mean that you can "KNOW NOW", or that you "GET IT NOW"? (It being Eternal Life).

Why such difficulty in understanding plain Englsh, Fig?? Is it because you don't want to understand it? It's all written in the PRESENT TENSE, that one can know NOW THAT ONE HAS ETERNAL LIFE IN CHRIST...John is NOT referring to physical life. Why so obdurate, Fig?

If you have eternal life now, I would suggest that you get read for a long long life, and marry many wives. Cause you are already immortal, apparently.

See above. It's truly amazing that you just can't understand the above scripture because your indoctrination prevents you from understanding the bible within it's own CONTEXT.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

Originally Posted by James Banta
But Jeff that is just what God tell us though the Apostle John. He told us that we can KNOW we have Eternal Life now..

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.


It's your choice you can believe the scripture or turn away from it.. You seem to have deiced that it is wrong, you appear to have turned away from it.. IHS jim



Why such difficulty in understanding plain Englsh, Fig?? Is it because you don't want to understand it? It's all written in the PRESENT TENSE, that one can know NOW THAT ONE HAS ETERNAL LIFE IN CHRIST...John is NOT referring to physical life. Why so obdurate, Fig?



See above. It's truly amazing that you just can't understand the above scripture because your indoctrination prevents you from understanding the bible within it's own CONTEXT.

Yes JD his comments about being immortal were very sad.. We quote direct from the Scripture and it is rejected as foolishness. Know what I am going to agree with them. They see the things we hold as sacred and it is foolishness. The Bibles says so at least for then it is..

1 Cor 1:8
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

It is hard for me to understand his contempt for scripture.. I can only think that these are p***ages that have no authority to him because I have either taken them out of context or they were mistranslated.. Remember to pray for them that the Holy Spirit can open his eyes to the Jesus I have had your help in lifting up.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Does that mean that you can "KNOW NOW", or that you "GET IT NOW"? (It being Eternal Life).

If you have eternal life now, I would suggest that you get read for a long long life, and marry many wives. Cause you are already immortal, apparently.

Understand Fig, I DIDN'T WRITE THAT TEXT.. It was given to the Apostle John by God.. It isn't so hard that an intelligent man like you can't understand it.. John wrote what He wrote so that those that believe in Jesus can Know that they HAVE Eternal Life... They can know, and those that believe can have it NOW.. That is what it said.. A doctrine that mormonism completely rejects.. IHS jim

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

No, that's NOT how election or soteriology works, jeff. You know better by now...or should.

---Hey, there is a lot that I SHOULD know that I don't. Anyway, if the formula goes "Saved first, meeting the conditions for it later," then why not repay that 1000 now, which will "cause" me to lend it to you 10 years from now? I mean, if "cart before horse" is the REAL way things work....

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---Hey, there is a lot that I SHOULD know that I don't. Anyway, if the formula goes "Saved first, meeting the conditions for it later," then why not repay that 1000 now, which will "cause" me to lend it to you 10 years from now? I mean, if "cart before horse" is the REAL way things work....

As long as you think or believe there cons***utes "meeting the conditions for it later", you will never understand Biblical soteriology, jeff.

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Yes JD his comments about being immortal were very sad.. We quote direct from the Scripture and it is rejected as foolishness. Know what I am going to agree with them. They see the things we hold as sacred and it is foolishness. The Bibles says so at least for then it is..

1 Cor 1:8
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

It is hard for me to understand his contempt for scripture.. I can only think that these are p***ages that have no authority to him because I have either taken them out of context or they were mistranslated.. Remember to pray for them that the Holy Spirit can open his eyes to the Jesus I have had your help in lifting up.. IHS jim

That's the language barrier in a nutshell...Mormon redefinition of words such as making "eternal life" merely mean physical continuity, and not understanding the term is a synonym for SALVATION!!

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

.Mormon redefinition of words such as making "eternal life" merely mean physical continuity, and not understanding the term is a synonym for SALVATION!!

--Huh? LDS believe that eternal life means merely physical continuity? Since when?

http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Eternal_Life

"To Latter-day Saints the phrase "eternal life" refers not only to everlasting life but also and more particularly to the quality of life God lives. Eternal life is available to all people who have lived on earth who accept this gift by their obedience to God's laws and ordinances.

God's work, and the source of his glory, is bringing to p*** "the immortality and eternal life" of his children (Moses 1:39). In other words, God works to enable his children's return to his presence so that they may both live with him and live as he lives."

[Father_JD]

jeff..."Eternal Life" isn't a "quality of life God lives". IT'S SALVATION as defined from the Bible.

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

jeff..."Eternal Life" isn't a "quality of life God lives". IT'S SALVATION as defined from the Bible.

---Not necessarily so. The requirements for eternal life are higher than the ones for just getting saved. Do a search for the verses that mention requirements for each.

And you didn't answer my questions:

LDS believe that eternal life means merely physical continuity? Since when?

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---Not necessarily so. The requirements for eternal life are higher than the ones for just getting saved. Do a search for the verses that mention requirements for each.

And you didn't answer my questions:

LDS believe that eternal life means merely physical continuity? Since when?

I repeat, "Eternal Life" is a synonym for SALVATION, jeff. What are the "requirements", jeff??

BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be SAVED.

According to the Figmeister, "Eternal Life" means physical continuity, so take it up with him.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

God elects, NOT according to works. Why didn't you engage Paul's words, fig?

Is it because you can't gainsay him?

Paul's words, as you interpret them, make a mockery of God.

Use the gl***es of common sense to read Paul, and then you will see that God is not the tyrant you paint Him to be.

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Paul's words, as you interpret them, make a mockery of God. Use the gl***es of common sense to read Paul, and then you will see that God is not the tyrant you paint Him to be.

----If only people would read ALL scriptures using common sense--especially Genesis, Exodus, the gospels, and what is attributed to Paul. People's idea about who and what God is, and about His personality and sense of fairness, would change, I think.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

----If only people would read ALL scriptures using common sense--especially Genesis, Exodus, the gospels, and what is attributed to Paul. People's idea about who and what God is, and about His personality and sense of fairness, would change, I think.

Image if God actually instilled in each of us a conscience that innately tells us what is fair and just and good and right, and this conscience turns out to be lying to us.

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Image if God actually instilled in each of us a conscience that innately tells us what is fair and just and good and right, and this conscience turns out to be lying to us.

In the case of the Mormon "conscience", it IS lying to you, fig.

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Paul's words, as you interpret them, make a mockery of God.

Use the gl***es of common sense to read Paul, and then you will see that God is not the tyrant you paint Him to be.

Well, by golly, Fig...WHY don't you do a line by line exegesis and show me just how my "interpretation" is incorrect instead of doing the Mormon "thing" and replying, "Nuh-uh"??

And NOW you're relying on the "arm of flesh", i.e. "common sense"?

Since when?

Duh. Try CONTEXTUAL READING...something you Mos absolutely LOATHE, but you just might learn that YOU were in error.

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

----If only people would read ALL scriptures using common sense--especially Genesis, Exodus, the gospels, and what is attributed to Paul. People's idea about who and what God is, and about His personality and sense of fairness, would change, I think.

Jeff...please take your own advice and read ALL Biblical scripture. Not once has any Mormon here EVER come up with some kind of legitimate "interpretation" of Romans 9.

Wanna know why?















YOU CAN NOT.

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

Jeff...please take your own advice and read ALL Biblical scripture.

--Oh, I have read the entire Bible, cover to cover, at least once. My advice (wish) was that people would read it using common sense, so they wouldn't jump to unwarranted conclusions in their exegesis.

Not once has any Mormon here EVER come up with some kind of legitimate "interpretation" of Romans 9.

---_At least not in your unbiased opinion, right?

Wanna know why?

---I already KNOW why YOU "feeel" that none has. So save yer breath.

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Father_JD View Post
Jeff...please take your own advice and read ALL Biblical scripture.

--Oh, I have read the entire Bible, cover to cover, at least once. My advice (wish) was that people would read it using common sense, so they wouldn't jump to unwarranted conclusions in their exegesis.

Wow, jeff. Sorry, but I'm quite underwhelmed. You've read the entire Bible, "at least once". What do you think you gained by just one reading?
I just wish you wouldn't jump to unwarranted conclusions in your EISEGESIS of the Biblical text...unconsciously superimposing Mormon meaning onto it ALL the time.

Quote:
Not once has any Mormon here EVER come up with some kind of legitimate "interpretation" of Romans 9.

---_At least not in your unbiased opinion, right?

NO interpretation, jeff. PERIOD! Still waiting...


Quote:
Wanna know why?

---I already KNOW why YOU "feeel" that none has. So save yer breath.

Still waiting for you to belly up to the bar, jeff.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

Well, by golly, Fig...WHY don't you do a line by line exegesis and show me just how my "interpretation" is incorrect instead of doing the Mormon "thing" and replying, "Nuh-uh"??

And NOW you're relying on the "arm of flesh", i.e. "common sense"?

Since when?

Duh. Try CONTEXTUAL READING...something you Mos absolutely LOATHE, but you just might learn that YOU were in error.

You call your own conscience, that God placed in you, the "arm of flesh"?

Rather, I think God place our consciences in us for a reason, and they are to guide us to the truth. They aren't the arm of flesh, unless you think God DOES have a body of flesh after all.

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

You call your own conscience, that God placed in you, the "arm of flesh"?

Rather, I think God place our consciences in us for a reason, and they are to guide us to the truth. They aren't the arm of flesh, unless you think God DOES have a body of flesh after all.

No, I was referring to "common sense"...and just because we are created "Imago Dei" (whereas Mormonism is "imago ****") and do possess "consciences" doesn't mean they're trustworthy because of the FALL, Fig.

"The heart is desperately WICKED, who can know it?"

You'll never understand the depth of human depravity until you understand, as King David did, that we're "born into sin" and by nature are spirtually DEAD...not just inconvenienced or a little incompacitated, but DEAD.