"What is the Euthyphro's Dilemma?" CARM video on YouTube

[Russianwolfe]

Tinkling cymbals and sounding br***.

Marvin

Originally Posted by Russ

And even Bruce R. McConkie was soundly rebuked and edited. Is "Mormon Doctrine" still Mormon doctrine. Nope!

And you are an authority?!

LOL

Just who speaks for Mormonism?

I watched President Monson today. He didn't talk about men becoming Gods over their own planets.

So I decided to ask Loren at Mormon.org.

He hemmed and hawed and otherwise beat around the bush, but finally admitted it. (YouTube coming soon. Stay tuned.)

Have you been soundly denounced in your defense of Mormonism? Have you been sustained as a defender of all things Mormon.

Man, oh man, just who can we turn to to give us the real deal?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

Tinkling cymbals and sounding br***.

Marvin

Translation: Since the Wolfe can't meet the challenge, run away with tail between legs.

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by Russ

Translation: Since the Wolfe can't meet the challenge, run away with tail between legs.

I'm still here.

Marvin

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

I'm still here.

Marvin

But you're silent.

Tail tucked between legs.

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by Russ

But you're silent.

Tail tucked between legs.

Russ has redefined the meaning of the word silent.

Marvin

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

Russ has redefined the meaning of the word silent.

Marvin

You claim that Skousen was rebuked by McConkie, yet McConkie himself was clearly rebuked by the hierarchy.

I want to know who really speaks for Mormonism.

FAIR? FARMS? You?

Where is your certificate allowing you to be the be-all end-all of LDS doctrine?

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Will it always be in your nature to lie, JD?

Nope. Either at death or the Rapture. But why do YOU lie, Fig, in light of your denial of Original Sin?

What is so magical about death or the rapture that will change you from a lying nature to a truthful nature?

I'm responsible for my own sins, JD. Adam isn't responsible for them.

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

What is so magical about death or the rapture that will change you from a lying nature to a truthful nature?

I'm responsible for my own sins, JD. Adam isn't responsible for them.

What you seem to refuse to see is that there would by no sin if Adam hadn't sinned/fallen.

As has been explained over and over, we inherited the "sin nature," from Adam consequently we all sin.

Andy

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

What is so magical about death or the rapture that will change you from a lying nature to a truthful nature?

Duh. That's WHEN the Christian will be PURGED of the sin nature in toto, Fig.

I'm responsible for my own sins, JD. Adam isn't responsible for them.

Then WHY do you lie, Fig? Why haven't you stopped? And we all know that at some point, whether out of desperation, convenience, what have you, we ALL LIE.

So WHY are you still a liar, Fig...seeing you believe in a completely "free" will?

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by akaSeerone

What you seem to refuse to see is that there would by no sin if Adam hadn't sinned/fallen.

As has been explained over and over, we inherited the "sin nature," from Adam consequently we all sin.

Andy

Fig and other Mormons recognize that EVERYONE sins, and yet they somehow can't reconcile this FACT with their "free will" doctrine...that anyone can simply "choose" NOT to sin.

Talk about deceived!

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

Duh. That's WHEN the Christian will be PURGED of the sin nature in toto, Fig.



Then WHY do you lie, Fig? Why haven't you stopped? And we all know that at some point, whether out of desperation, convenience, what have you, we ALL LIE.

So WHY are you still a liar, Fig...seeing you believe in a completely "free" will?

He has to lie to keep supporting mormonism.

He is trapped in the web of deceit.

When people get in that deep, they believe their own lies and can no longer discern truth from lies and .......what a web we weave when we practice to deceive!

As always it will take God's calling to save him.

Andy

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by akaSeerone

What you seem to refuse to see is that there would by no sin if Adam hadn't sinned/fallen.
As has been explained over and over, we inherited the "sin nature," from Adam consequently we all sin.
Andy

---Should ANYONE be punished for hereditary defects, which by definition were not their fault? Sounds kinda unfair.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

Duh. That's WHEN the Christian will be PURGED of the sin nature in toto, Fig.



Then WHY do you lie, Fig? Why haven't you stopped? And we all know that at some point, whether out of desperation, convenience, what have you, we ALL LIE.

So WHY are you still a liar, Fig...seeing you believe in a completely "free" will?

This has been explained to you over and over and over again. This is a world of temptation, and learning, and experience, and falling and redemption. We 'fall' for the same reason Adam fell--succumbing to temptation. You believe Adam and Eve had free will, don't you? So, why not ask them why they fell?

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---Should ANYONE be punished for hereditary defects, which by definition were not their fault? Sounds kinda unfair.

Come on, Jeff. If the Bible says that God is actually a respecter of some persons, and not others, then who are you and I to argue with that?

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

Fig and other Mormons recognize that EVERYONE sins, and yet they somehow can't reconcile this FACT with their "free will" doctrine...that anyone can simply "choose" NOT to sin.

Talk about deceived!

Did Adam and Eve have free will? You don't seem to see how they are a shadow and type for all humanity.

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Come on, Jeff. If the Bible says that God is actually a respecter of some persons, and not others, then who are you and I to argue with that?

---Well, we could not argue with that idea, if the Bible really taught it. Maybe I got a defective Bible, because mine doesn't teach it. Can there be such a thing as a defective Bible, though? Isn't God able to protect all Bibles and keep them from being defective? Because otherwise, they would not be inerrant.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---Well, we could not argue with that idea, if the Bible really taught it. Maybe I got a defective Bible, because mine doesn't teach it. Can there be such a thing as a defective Bible, though? Isn't God able to protect all Bibles and keep them from being defective? Because otherwise, they would not be inerrant.

Wha...?

You mean that the Bible doesn't teach that God is a respecter of persons?

Dang!

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Did Adam and Eve have free will? You don't seem to see how they are a shadow and type for all humanity.

Yes, they sure did, Fig. And they were the LAST ones to have it as well. You keep IGNORING the FALL, dude.

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

This has been explained to you over and over and over again. This is a world of temptation, and learning, and experience, and falling and redemption. We 'fall' for the same reason Adam fell--succumbing to temptation. You believe Adam and Eve had free will, don't you? So, why not ask them why they fell?

And it's beene explained to you over and over and over again the SEVERITY of the Fall, which YOU refuse to take seriously with your Pelagian view-point.

You don't understand that your answer has NO MERIT, Fig. It doesn't address the ISSUE OF SIN, DEATH, etc.

Since YOU believe in a complete FREE will, it's for you to demonstrate the reality of people who have NEVER SINNED, exercising that free will of theirs despite a "world of temptation, and learning, and experience...blah, blah, blah".

The question regarding Adam and Eve is a GREAT one!! Why? Because they truly HAD free will. We do NOT because we're FALLEN.

[nrajeff]

That is strange logic. Why couldn't free will---the freedom to choose either good or evil---be one of the things we INHERITED from Adam and Eve?

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

That is strange logic. Why couldn't free will---the freedom to choose either good or evil---be one of the things we INHERITED from Adam and Eve?

Because they FELL, jeff...became "by nature children of WRATH", jeff. Became spiritally DEAD, jeff as well as physical death later.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

When God teaches us eternal laws (which are gospel laws) he IS the law giver. It does not mean He is the original inventor. There is no original inventor of eternal, natural laws.

Fig here falls into a false teaching just like what the guy in the video warns us about...Fig has laws being something that pre-date his god, and that Fig's god had to at some point learn the law.

[alanmolstad]

In re-reading this whole topic, I was sad to see it slide back into the normal Mormon vs Christian bickering....

The original post at the start of this topic did toss out a few good questions....I wish the boys would have stuck to that and not just turned this into the same old debate.

[alanmolstad]

I like getting in the "Last Word'

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I like getting in the "Last Word'

The LDS believe God will have the last word:

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.