Can Someone Help? Spirit Creation

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

Still not able to support your ***ertion, I see. If there is evdience, then show it to me. Provide me with the list of gods, their names and relationships, and their escapades. This is what all other polytheistic religions have, so if you are going to support your ***ertion, you have to show the evidence.

Marvin

Great point, Marvin.

If the LDS are polytheists, where is the list of all these other gods that we supposedly have?

Plain and simply, there is none.

But if the antagonists want to continue to milk a dead cow, they can keep on trying, I suppose.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Great point, Marvin.

If the LDS are polytheists, where is the list of all these other gods that we supposedly have?

Plain and simply, there is none.

But if the antagonists want to continue to milk a dead cow, they can keep on trying, I suppose.

Yes I have a list of the Gods of mormonism.. It was given by the same person that gave the church the BofM, the BofA, the BofMoses, and most of the D&C.. It's Joseph Smith and I know you have seen the address before, especially the part that talks about plural Gods.. These then are the Gods of mormonism:

I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three cons***ute three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural: and who can contradict it! (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473)

It would seem that lately the whole of the LDS chirch would contradict it.. There seems to b a number of them tat deny the divinity of the Holy Spirit, and Jesus and claim that only the Father is the one true God..

According to Smith the Gods of mormonism are the father, the son, and the holy spirit.. Three seperate beings, three seperate gods..

According to Dictionary.com, Cambridge Dictionary:
Polytheism is the doctrine of or belief in more than one god or in many gods. No worship is required. That that definition I can say that, YES, mormonism teaches and hold polytheistic doctrine.. Those of the church tat believe those doctrines are indeed polytheistic.. Merriam-Webster adds this: belief in or worship of more than one god.. Even they add an "or" and not and "and". With all this data it is safe (if using the English language) to say that mere belief in more than one God make a person or the religion that teaches such a doctrine POLYTHEISTIC..

Do you wish to deny any of this and a teaching of Joseph Smith? Do you wish to deny that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are divine? If Smith is teaching truth them by that teahing he is a polythiest, any that trust his doctrine as being ture are as well... IHS jim

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Great point, Marvin.

If the LDS are polytheists, where is the list of all these other gods that we supposedly have?

Plain and simply, there is none.

But if the antagonists want to continue to milk a dead cow, they can keep on trying, I suppose.

Sorry fig....that is a red herring and is also meaningless.

Mormonism teaches that there are an infinite number of Gods, that is all that is relevant here.

And it is meaningless in that it is a false dichotomy.

Andy

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by akaSeerone

Sorry fig....that is a red herring and is also meaningless.

Mormonism teaches that there are an infinite number of Gods, that is all that is relevant here.

And it is meaningless in that it is a false dichotomy.

Andy

And who do LDS say is their God? Who do they worship?

Thanks.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three cons***ute three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural: and who can contradict it! (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473)

And we worship the Father.

Thanks.

[Russianwolfe]

We both worship the same Gods, we just disagree on their true relationship. That is all.

You gotta do better that this pathetic attempt. You would do better to claim that the Catholics are polytheistic since they believe the Mary became the Queen of Heaven and since Christ is the King of Heaven then that makes them married. At least then you would have named another God that you don't believe in.

Still waiting for the real evidence and not just a smoke screen.

Marvin

Originally Posted by James Banta

Yes I have a list of the Gods of mormonism.. It was given by the same person that gave the church the BofM, the BofA, the BofMoses, and most of the D&C.. It's Joseph Smith and I know you have seen the address before, especially the part that talks about plural Gods.. These then are the Gods of mormonism:

I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three cons***ute three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural: and who can contradict it! (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473)

It would seem that lately the whole of the LDS chirch would contradict it.. There seems to b a number of them tat deny the divinity of the Holy Spirit, and Jesus and claim that only the Father is the one true God..

According to Smith the Gods of mormonism are the father, the son, and the holy spirit.. Three seperate beings, three seperate gods..

According to Dictionary.com, Cambridge Dictionary:
Polytheism is the doctrine of or belief in more than one god or in many gods. No worship is required. That that definition I can say that, YES, mormonism teaches and hold polytheistic doctrine.. Those of the church tat believe those doctrines are indeed polytheistic.. Merriam-Webster adds this: belief in or worship of more than one god.. Even they add an "or" and not and "and". With all this data it is safe (if using the English language) to say that mere belief in more than one God make a person or the religion that teaches such a doctrine POLYTHEISTIC..

Do you wish to deny any of this and a teaching of Joseph Smith? Do you wish to deny that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are divine? If Smith is teaching truth them by that teahing he is a polythiest, any that trust his doctrine as being ture are as well... IHS jim

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

And who do LDS say is their God? Who do they worship?

Thanks.

So....I take it you are acknowledging that mormons believe in many gods, but only worship one.

That is not the God Christians worship and it proves that mormons do not worship the God of the Bible.

Andy

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

We both worship the same Gods, we just disagree on their true relationship. That is all.

You gotta do better that this pathetic attempt. You would do better to claim that the Catholics are polytheistic since they believe the Mary became the Queen of Heaven and since Christ is the King of Heaven then that makes them married. At least then you would have named another God that you don't believe in.

Still waiting for the real evidence and not just a smoke screen.

Marvin

The pathetic attempt is in your court....you have to do more than saying nug-huh.

Instead of just crying wolf all the time....Prove Jim wrong.

There are no Gods, as the Bible teaches us, there is only God...not Gods, so you got that wrong and your reply is meaningless.

Andy

[nrajeff]

Uh, Andy, does the Bible teach that sons of the Most High are gods?

a) yes
b) no

[akaSeerone]

Why do you try to equate gods with Gods?

Andy

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by akaSeerone

Why do you try to equate gods with Gods?

Andy

He doesn't know that the rules of the people the judges and the kings were called mighty ones or elohim's.. The idols of the land that the people ended up bowing down to were also call elohim's.. Was David a god? And the Baals were the gods? OR is God the only God that has ever existed.. A lot depends on the context of the p***age not just the word elohim. After all. The Bible say that John baptized and Jesus wept.. Yes it does say that, but the context reveals the real occurrences.. IHS jim

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by akaSeerone

Why do you try to equate gods with Gods?

Andy

---Ancient Hebrew has no upper and lower case letters, Andy. The same word--- "elohim"--is used whether the beings referred to are heavenly deities, or mortals who are being called offspring of those deities.

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by James Banta

He doesn't know that the rules of the people the judges and the kings were called mighty ones or elohim's.. The idols of the land that the people ended up bowing down to were also call elohim's..

--I know.

Was David a god?

--What verse calls David el?

And the Baals were the gods?

---Yes. They were false deities, or unauthorized deities for ancient Israel to worship, or both, but the word is the same. No lower case g to distinguish them in Hebrew.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by akaSeerone

So....I take it you are acknowledging that mormons believe in many gods, but only worship one.

That is not the God Christians worship and it proves that mormons do not worship the God of the Bible.

Andy

If we are believe many gods exist, but only worship One, how is that prove that the One God that we worship is not the God of the Bible?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

--I know.


--What verse calls David el?


---Yes. They were false deities, or unauthorized deities for ancient Israel to worship, or both, but the word is the same. No lower case g to distinguish them in Hebrew.

David was king.. That made him a mighty one, a judge in Israel.. One of those that Psalm 82 was pointed at.. Are you ready to deny that king David was in that position? There were never any authorized deities for Israel. There was only the Lord God. Any other deity was idolatry.. Since I don't read Hebrew we will have to go with the position David held as king..

I use the lower case 'god' for the reason that you understand my contempt for anything or anyone that makes themselves out to be a god.. Hebrew like Greek has no lower or upper case letters it all just Hebrew, or Greek.. The only way to know the difference is in the context of the p***age.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

If we are believe many gods exist, but only worship One, how is that prove that the One God that we worship is not the God of the Bible?

Because the God of the Bible says that He and He alone is God.. That no other being has ever been God and no other being will ever be God. To believe that there are other gods that exist is to call God a liar.. If you do that we know that the idea of many gods existing is the lie of men not a lie of God who say there are none.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

We both worship the same Gods, we just disagree on their true relationship. That is all.

You gotta do better that this pathetic attempt. You would do better to claim that the Catholics are polytheistic since they believe the Mary became the Queen of Heaven and since Christ is the King of Heaven then that makes them married. At least then you would have named another God that you don't believe in.

Still waiting for the real evidence and not just a smoke screen.

Marvin

I am not here to discuss Roman Catholicism. If I were those comments would come up. I am here to reach out to those of the mormon church whose doctrine of God is polytheist inspite of the word God gave us to the contrary.

Is the God of mormonism self existent? Has there ever been a time in the vast eternity of the past when He is not God? Did He create ALL things or just push around what was already there? In these question is your proof that we worship a different God that the god of Joseph Smith.. IHS jim

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---Ancient Hebrew has no upper and lower case letters, Andy. The same word--- "elohim"--is used whether the beings referred to are heavenly deities, or mortals who are being called offspring of those deities.

And that is why context is so important.

The same p***age also says those "gods" are men and will die like men, so how can they possibly be considered deity in the same sense that the Trinity is?

Expanded Biblical context tells us there is one and only one God and there never has been or will be any other Gods, so your point is in error.

Sorry to burst your anti-Christian lds mormon bubble, but you nor any mormon will ever achieve Godhood and if you could get but a glimpse into the nature of God you would understand why there can be only the one God.

Andy

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Because the God of the Bible says that He and He alone is God...

And that is true. Our only God is Him.

Originally Posted by James Banta

That no other being has ever been God and no other being will ever be God. To believe that there are other gods that exist is to call God a liar.. If you do that we know that the idea of many gods existing is the lie of men not a lie of God who say there are none.. IHS jim

You have to stretch the Bible like a rubber band to get that out of it, but be my guest if it makes you feel good about yourself.

Thanks.

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

And that is true. Our only God is Him.



You have to stretch the Bible like a rubber band to get that out of it, but be my guest if it makes you feel good about yourself.

Thanks.

Just how phony can you be fig....you are truly living up to your name.

You are twisting what Jim said and it is not Jim stretching anything.

The Bible is very plain on it....there is only God....Never has been any other and never will be any other.

Bottom line....you working your way to godhood is a waste of time....it has never happened to anyone else and never will happen to anyone else.

Andy

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by James Banta

David was king.. That made him a mighty one, a judge in Israel.

--You still have not provided any verses that refer to David using the word el. If you want to try to show that all kings, regardless where they ruled, were referred to as gods, go for it.

And what was your answer to this question?
Andy, does the Bible teach that sons of the Most High are gods?

a) yes
b) no

There were never any authorized deities for Israel.

--That news will come as a shock to Yahweh.

I use the lower case 'god' for the reason that you understand my contempt for anything or anyone that makes themselves out to be a god..

--Well, of course you are free to have contempt for anyone who tries to make HIMSELF out to be a deity, Andy. What do you think of CS Lewis thoughts about God being willing and able to make a god out of YOU if you will let Him? Got contempt for that idea, too?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

And that is true. Our only God is Him.



You have to stretch the Bible like a rubber band to get that out of it, but be my guest if it makes you feel good about yourself.

Thanks.

If you say that only the Father is God, you deny the teaching od Joseph Smith, You deny the words of the Bible that says the Word is God. You deny the teachings of the Apostle Peter when He taught that the Holy Spirit is God.. If you wish to deny the deity of Jesus and the Holy Spirit do so just come out and say that Jesus Is not God, and that that Holy Spirit (Ghost) is not God.. I see you slitting God into units that you like instead of just accepting what the Bible Says He is.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

--You still have not provided any verses that refer to David using the word el. If you want to try to show that all kings, regardless where they ruled, were referred to as gods, go for it.

And what was your answer to this question?
Andy, does the Bible teach that sons of the Most High are gods?

a) yes
b) no


--That news will come as a shock to Yahweh.


--Well, of course you are free to have contempt for anyone who tries to make HIMSELF out to be a deity, Andy. What do you think of CS Lewis thoughts about God being willing and able to make a god out of YOU if you will let Him? Got contempt for that idea, too?

I thought I explained that.. I haven't a verse that says David was a god.. I have verses that say he was a mighty man.. A man of valor.. There are many verses that call such as that gods among the people.. I thought that was clear and agreed?

I know of verses that call the rulers of the people gods. It could be said that Psalm 82:1 calls the angelic host gods. It could be seen that way.. Then again it could be said that David being a ruler is the kind of person that is pointed to in this verse as one of the gods. Jesus used this p***age to put down the Pharisees I have seen mormons use it to show that men are called gods. I guess I can use it to show that angels or the kings are the mighty ones in verse one.. I hurt for those that misuse the scripture to try to turn God into a mere idol.. That is what mormonism does.. And all on the say so of one man. A man who couldn't decide what he saw one morning in a grove of trees.. Was it just Jesus as the version Smith recorded in his own handwriting, or was it two separate Gods as the official version recorded? You do understand that both were written many years after the event, but who could forget an event like that right? Then why are there so many different versions? IHS jim

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---Really? You need to provide official doctrine that supports that one, Padre.

Yeah, really, jeff. That's what I was taught ("official" or not) at the Mounument Park 8th Ward, SLC in the 60's, jeff.

You guys usually go apoplectic and mock the Heavenly MOTHER--SINGULAR--doctrine, not mothers. So give us some evidence to support your wives teaching.

Uh, jeff...don't spout off at me! It was your Bro. Brig who went on and on about "celestial wives".

Oh...guess what? There is NO "heavenly mother".

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

Provide scriptures to support your ***ertion. All you are doing is bloviating.

Marvin

PS. The scriptures need to name the Gods that you claim we believe in beyond the ones that we both believe in.

Arbitrary standard here, Marvin. You don't need specific scripture to "prove" Mormon POLYTHEISM.

It's right there in the FABRIC of your religion.