Can Someone Help? Spirit Creation

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

It is not that simple. I asked that you provide evidence for your claim in the pattern of polytheistic religions the world over, not just a simple general defintion. If we are polytheistic then show me the evidence that fulfills the request I have made. Else we are not polytheistic as you claim.

Marvin

Marvin, I have already given you this information. You are polytheistic by definition. Why do you feel that you can change the definition a word? The definition of polytheism is "belief in or worship of more than one god". You believe in more than one god, that makes you a polytheist by definition.

Encyclopedia of Mormonism
Godhead
"Latter-day Saints believe in God the Father; his Son, Jesus Christ; and the Holy Ghost (A of F 1). These three Gods form the Godhead, which holds the keys of power over the universe. Each member of the Godhead is an independent personage, separate and distinct from the other two, the three being in perfect unity and harmony with each other (AF, chap. 2)."
http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Godhead


Polytheism
Main Entry: poly·the·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈpä-lē-(ˌ)thē-ˌi-zəm\
Function: noun
Etymology: French polytheisme, from Late Greek polytheos polytheistic, from Greek, of many gods, from poly- + theos god
Date: 1613
Belief in or worship of more than one god
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/polytheism

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

You made the accusation, so now I am asking for you to provide the proof in the pattern that all other polytheistic religions have followed. Your questions don't matter because you have yet to provide any evidence that your accusation is true.

Marvin

"Provide the proof"?????

DO you believe God had a "god"??

YES, this is Mormon BELIEF.

Do you believe the are OTHER TRUE GODS out there somewhere in the universe?

YES, this is Mormon BELIEF.

Do you believe you're gonna become a true "god" and rule over your own little, cheaply-made planet?

YES, this is Mormon BELIEF.

YOU ARE POLYTHEISTIC BY DEFINITION.

Why do you insist on playing your little Mormon reindeer games, Marvin??

[Russianwolfe]

A general definition will not do. Provide the evidence that shows that we are polytheistic in the pattern that all polytheistic religions the world over have followed: Provide the names of the other Gods what we believe in or worship, other than the one we both worship. Provide the evidence of these Gods and their relationships and their escapades. Without this information, your claim that we are polytheistic is nothing more than a bigot's shouting and plugging his ears.

Marvin

Originally Posted by Father_JD

"Provide the proof"?????

DO you believe God had a "god"??

YES, this is Mormon BELIEF.

Do you believe the are OTHER TRUE GODS out there somewhere in the universe?

YES, this is Mormon BELIEF.

Do you believe you're gonna become a true "god" and rule over your own little, cheaply-made planet?

YES, this is Mormon BELIEF.

YOU ARE POLYTHEISTIC BY DEFINITION.

Why do you insist on playing your little Mormon reindeer games, Marvin??

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

A general definition will not do. Provide the evidence that shows that we are polytheistic in the pattern that all polytheistic religions the world over have followed: Provide the names of the other Gods what we believe in or worship, other than the one we both worship. Provide the evidence of these Gods and their relationships and their escapades. Without this information, your claim that we are polytheistic is nothing more than a bigot's shouting and plugging his ears.

Marvin

I don't know what language you are wanting to speak here.. English words have English meanings.. There is a word to describe every possibility. The difination of Polytheism is the belief in or worship of nor than one God.. Worship of the different gods in not necessary just a belief that they exist.. I want to tell you up front.. I deny that any God except the God of the Bible has ever or will ever exist..God and God alone is God.. There is no other. I am a monothiest. Mormnis by nature in polytheistic.. They believe in many Gods though they say they worship one one.. Do you need to see the difination again?

Polytheism:
The worship of or belief in more than one god. (Dictionary.com)

IHS jim

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

A general definition will not do. Provide the evidence that shows that we are polytheistic in the pattern that all polytheistic religions the world over have followed: Provide the names of the other Gods what we believe in or worship, other than the one we both worship. Provide the evidence of these Gods and their relationships and their escapades. Without this information, your claim that we are polytheistic is nothing more than a bigot's shouting and plugging his ears.

Marvin

Who are YOU to declare "a general definition will not do"??

WHY are you playing your little Mormon reindeer game of obfuscation?

Just because you don't have a "name" for God's daddy-god (actually I have named him, Bubba) or one of Roy's (my name for the Mormon deity, short for LeRoy de Kolob) celestial GODDESS WIVES, doesn't alter the FACT that BY DEFINITION YOU ARE POLYTHEISTIC.

Your little games glaringly reveal just how dishonest Mormon apolo-joke-tics are, Marvin, and frankly, you should be ashamed of yourself for this less-than honest response of yours. It's called "lack of intellectual integrity".

[stemelbow]

bump. I'd be interested.

love,
stem

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I don't know what language you are wanting to speak here.. English words have English meanings.. There is a word to describe every possibility. The difination of Polytheism is the belief in or worship of nor than one God.. Worship of the different gods in not necessary just a belief that they exist.. I want to tell you up front.. I deny that any God except the God of the Bible has ever or will ever exist..God and God alone is God.. There is no other. I am a monothiest. Mormnis by nature in polytheistic.. They believe in many Gods though they say they worship one one.. Do you need to see the difination again?

Polytheism:
The worship of or belief in more than one god. (Dictionary.com)

IHS jim

Like I said, a general definition will not do. Whether you call them Gods or persons really doesn't matter.

What is your problem that you cannot provide the evidence that is required to support your claim? I am not asking for too much am I? We both believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and the Holy Ghost is a God and the Father is a God. Or are you saying the Jesus is a person in God(?) and the Father is another person in God(?)? How is that any different? All it is is definitions. You call them persons but that doesn't change anything. Their relationship and their ontology we might disagree on.

So unless you want to paint yourself with that same brush, you might want to provide the evidence that shows what we believe that in Gods other than the ones that we both believe in. That would definitely make us polytheistic.

Whether you claim to worship only one God, if I asked a Jewish Rabbi what he thought, he would say that you are definitely polytheistic. That is why I am asking for the evidence that we believe in Gods other than the ones that we both believe in. So, why not provide the evidence?

Marvin

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

Who are YOU to declare "a general definition will not do"??

WHY are you playing your little Mormon reindeer game of obfuscation?

Just because you don't have a "name" for God's daddy-god (actually I have named him, Bubba) or one of Roy's (my name for the Mormon deity, short for LeRoy de Kolob) celestial GODDESS WIVES, doesn't alter the FACT that BY DEFINITION YOU ARE POLYTHEISTIC.

Your little games glaringly reveal just how dishonest Mormon apolo-joke-tics are, Marvin, and frankly, you should be ashamed of yourself for this less-than honest response of yours. It's called "lack of intellectual integrity".

Why do you think mocking and name calling are valid debating techniques?

I am trying to find out what you believe makes us that different from you that you can call us polytheistic. If you have nothing other than the same Gods that we believe in, then you have nothing. Other religions outside of Christianity consider you polytheistic. So your claims about us mean very little.

Marvin

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

Why do you think mocking and name calling are valid debating techniques?

I am trying to find out what you believe makes us that different from you that you can call us polytheistic. If you have nothing other than the same Gods that we believe in, then you have nothing. Other religions outside of Christianity consider you polytheistic. So your claims about us mean very little.

Marvin

Wrong answer.....

You have nothing Marvin because you are leaning on sources outside the Bible. The Bible tells us there is only God....not Gods.

We Christians do not have Gods....we have only God....to even consider anything else is just plain foolish!

Andy

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

I am trying to find out what you believe makes us that different from you that you can call us polytheistic.
Marvin

Marvin, I have gone over this with you on multiple occasions. LDS believe in many gods. That is the definition of polytheism. Can you explain to me why you do not seem to understand? I ***ume you are not mentally challenged.

Here is the information that has already been provided on multiple occasion.

Encyclopedia of Mormonism
Godhead
"Latter-day Saints believe in God the Father; his Son, Jesus Christ; and the Holy Ghost (A of F 1). These three Gods form the Godhead, which holds the keys of power over the universe. Each member of the Godhead is an independent personage, separate and distinct from the other two, the three being in perfect unity and harmony with each other (AF, chap. 2)."
http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Godhead


Polytheism
Main Entry: poly·the·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈpä-lē-(ˌ)thē-ˌi-zəm\
Function: noun
Etymology: French polytheisme, from Late Greek polytheos polytheistic, from Greek, of many gods, from poly- + theos god
Date: 1613
Belief in or worship of more than one god
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/polytheism[/QUOTE]

[nrajeff]

I am not ashamed to state that I am a monolatrist just like Jesus and His apostolic-era disciples (such as Paul) were. If anyone has a problem with that, it's their problem, IMO and they can take it up with Jesus and His apostolic-era disciples.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

I am not ashamed to state that I am a monolatrist

Monolatrism or monolatry (Greek: μόνος (monos) = single, and λατρεία (latreia) = worship) is the recognition of the existence of many gods, but with the consistent worship of only one deity.

So you only worship the Father and never the son?


Are we Christians? Of course we are Christians. We believe in Christ. We worship Christ.
Gordon B. Hinckley, “What Are People Asking about Us?,” Ensign, Nov 1998, 70

I worship Him (Christ) as I worship His Father, in spirit and in truth.
Gordon B. Hinckley, “In These Three I Believe,” Liahona, Jul 2006, 2–8

"The Saints also worship Christ the Son as they acknowledge him as the source of truth and redemption, as the light and life of the world, as the way to the Father. . ."
http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Jesus_Christ

2 Nephi 25:29 "And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out."

3 Nephi 11:17 "Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him."

Matthew 2:11 "11And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him. . ."

Matthew 14:33 "Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God."

Matthew 28:9 "And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him."

Matthew 28:17 "17And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted."

Luke 24:52 "52And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:"

John 9:38 "And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him."

John 20:28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Originally Posted by Bat-Man

We (LDS) do worship Jesus Christ as God. Don't you ?

[alanmolstad]

what makes you "you".....is from conception.

yes, God knew you before you were born, actually He also knew the trees in my yard too, and the ants on that tree....and the spots on the ants on the tree in my yard....all just as much as he knew of me before i was born.

My spirit, my soul, the "thing" that makes me the person I am, was created at my conception.

[alanmolstad]

you see....the basic way a lot of people understood how babies were born was in error in history.

They really believed that the father planted a "seed" inside the garden of the women....this is why the men would also call some women 'fertile' and others as being "barren".....as if the women was nothing more than earth.

This also shows us why men believe that they really did come from their father Abraham, as they did not understand that half of who you are is from your mother.
they ***umed they really were inside Abraham and have just been "p***ed along" via all their other grand fathers until they were born.

be that as it may....we now know a lot more about how humans are born and what we see is that at the moment of conception you become who you are.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

you see....the basic way a lot of people understood how babies were born was in error in history.

They really believed that the father planted a "seed" inside the garden of the women....this is why the men would also call some women 'fertile' and others as being "barren".....as if the women was nothing more than earth.

This also shows us why men believe that they really did come from their father Abraham, as they did not understand that half of who you are is from your mother.
they ***umed they really were inside Abraham and have just been "p***ed along" via all their other grand fathers until they were born.

be that as it may....we now know a lot more about how humans are born and what we see is that at the moment of conception you become who you are.

The Bible teaches the equality of the man and the woman.. While the Bible is not a book of biology it never refutes that a child is of the mother as much as it is of the father.. Children are said to be the woman's many times.. Such p***ages are represented in Proverbs 6:20. Both the father and the mother raise the children.. IHS jim

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

you see....the basic way a lot of people understood how babies were born was in error in history.

They really believed that the father planted a "seed" inside the garden of the women....this is why the men would also call some women 'fertile' and others as being "barren".....as if the women was nothing more than earth.

This also shows us why men believe that they really did come from their father Abraham, as they did not understand that half of who you are is from your mother.
they ***umed they really were inside Abraham and have just been "p***ed along" via all their other grand fathers until they were born.

be that as it may....we now know a lot more about how humans are born and what we see is that at the moment of conception you become who you are.

I can tell a birds and bee's story better than that!

[alanmolstad]

1) Do you believe our spirits were created at the time of Adam?...I know of no Bible verse that teaches this...

2) If so, where were they while waiting for our physical bodies?....There is no such teaching in the Bible to support the idea that we had a spirit before we had a body.

3) If not, when were our spirits created?....I have no knowledge of a Bible verse that address this question.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Vlad III

1) Do you believe our spirits were created at the time of Adam?

2) If so, where were they while waiting for our physical bodies?

3) If not, when were our spirits created?

1) Do you believe our spirits were created at the time of Adam?........ANSWER: I cant find that in the Bible.


2) If so, where were they while waiting for our physical bodies?......ANSWER: once again I cant find that teaching in the bible at all....


3) If not, when were our spirits created?........ANSWER...I do not find any teaching in the Bible that our "spirit" was any older than our flesh.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

1) Do you believe our spirits were created at the time of Adam?........ANSWER: I cant find that in the Bible.


2) If so, where were they while waiting for our physical bodies?......ANSWER: once again I cant find that teaching in the bible at all....


3) If not, when were our spirits created?........ANSWER...I do not find any teaching in the Bible that our "spirit" was any older than our flesh.

Then the question begs to be asked--do you find anything in the Bible which states our spirits did not exist prior to our mortal bodies?

There certainly is spirits separate from physical bodies in the Bible. That would indicate spirits can, and could-- exist prior to the body.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Vlad III

1) Do you believe our spirits were created at the time of Adam?

2) If so, where were they while waiting for our physical bodies?

3) If not, when were our spirits created?

The answer to all the 3 questions is..."There is nothing in the Bible to suggest our soul, or our spirit are in any way older that our flesh."

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

The answer to all the 3 questions is..."There is nothing in the Bible to suggest our soul, or our spirit are in any way older that our flesh."

Jesus Christ was a spirit before He became flesh.

What is your evidence all spirits didn't exist before they became flesh?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Jesus Christ was a spirit before He became flesh.

What is your evidence all spirits didn't exist before they became flesh?

The answer is found in my words you quoted...

"There is nothing in the Bible to suggest our soul, or our spirit are in any way older that our flesh"



While there are many ideas taught in the world of the non-Christian CULTS that can and do teach all manner of the invented ideas people have come up with on their own to sell books and fool people, the basic fact is as I have stated to you in the quote....

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

The answer is found in my words you quoted...

"There is nothing in the Bible to suggest our soul, or our spirit are in any way older that our flesh"

You did not engage my point: Jesus Christ was a spirit before He was incarnated--what is your evidence all spirits did not exist prior to their mortal, physical incarnation?

The absence of information does not make your point.

[alanmolstad]

"There is nothing in the Bible to suggest our soul, or our spirit are in any way older that our flesh"

[alanmolstad]

some people understand the story of the creation of Adam to be a hint as to all of us are created.
In the story Adam's body of dust is created, and God breathed into this body and Adam became a living soul.

If this is correct way to understand the concept, it means that a man's body is created before his spirit...