I have already explained it has nothing to do with his will, as you keep trying to force upon this discussion. I never brought His will into the discussion...you did.Well here we have a perfect illustration of your problem. You think you can blame God for things that are not in his will. That is the fundamental problem here, and you have not explained (much less "re-explained") how you can even pretend to blame God for evil just becuase he knew it would happen.
Again I didn't bring anything about what are truths and how we can define them here. This is your obfuscation. I get your desperate attempt...no need to repeat it. Perhaps in your mind other readers don't get it."Obfuscation"?? What's the matter Stem, could you not understand the big words. This is simple. There are what we recognize as "necessary truths" and "contingent truths". They are not the same thing. Your hand-waving dismissal does not sustain your accusation here.
There is absolutely no connection here. God conceived of every evil rape, how it would happen and under what circumstances it would come about, for instance. This long before he created any vehicle, out of nothing mind you, to do the evil deed. I have absolutely no idea what my offspring are going to do...I can't even confirm that any are going to sin in any way. I only ***ume they will. And I did not create something that otherwise would not exist. There is such a huge difference here its adorable your desperately trying to cling to this.If that is the best you can do, then you have nothing. The fact is, in the context of knowing our children will do evil things, my ****ogy is sufficient. God knew that we would sin, just like you know that your children will sin. Your children did not exist before you procreated them. Whether they were created out of the myth of "eternal matter" or not is irrelevant to the ****ogy.
You misunderstand my explanation plain and simple. Its obvious. And its obvious you have never really thought very hard about your beliefs. Its not a matter of God knowing sin would occur. You keep hammering that in some desperate attempt to avoid the actual points I've raised. Its not just that He knew sins would occur, but its that he actually conceived of every evil deed before he created anything. The actual deed of rape wasn't thought of in the mind of the first man to rape...it began in the conception of God before that man was. I know you don't get it. I know you will avoid the issue in hopes you won't have to deal with it. But that's how it is. That's what your beliefs suggest, if followed to their logical conclusions.Once again, having no actual argument to refute my position, all you can do is demonstrate your difficulty understanding my rather simple and obvious point by calling it an obfuscation. Furthermore, your rhetoric is getting increasingly desperate (as usual). Knowing people would commit evil acts in advance has EVERYTHING to do with knowing that people would commit evil acts. Yes, God went ahead and created - but he did not commit the evil acts. YOU actually commit your own sins, Stem. Just because God knew you would sin does not mean that he created the sin you comm***ed.
My beliefs are much different than yours on this, BH. My offspring already exist, according to my beliefs, before I procreated them. And still beside the point, an obfuscation. I'm sure its just that you don't understand. You can't understand, or you are not wanting to see. Even if a mortal person knows his/her offspring will sin, that hardly means that mortal person, created out of nothing, or that that person was the original one who conceived of all the particular evil deeds we, as the human family, do. Thus, this point, untouched by you due to your inability to understand, is true according to the logical conclusions of mainstream Christianity.While your opinion is predictable, you have failed to substantiate it with a valid argument. Whether you created them out of existing matter or not is IRRELEVANT; the FACT is they did not exist such that they COULD sin and then, AFTER you procreated them, they did exist and DID sin, just as you knew they would. Using your mistaken logic in pretending that God must be held accountable for all evil (on the Christian view), YOU are equally responsible for the sins of your children.
I just keep addressing this failed logic you continue to rehe**** as if you are told to just keep repeating this red herring time and time again in hopes it will go away. Sorry, read above. let it sink in, perhaps you will get it.I understood since before you even asked the question, Stem. And YOU are the one who has just demonstrated that YOU do not even understand what you just read: I never said that YOU suggested you are responsible. Learn to read. I am the one telling YOU that according to your damaged logic, if God is responsible for sin because he created the people who commit it knowing in advance that they will sin, then YOU are equally responsible for the sins of your children because you procreated them, knowing in advance that they would sin. You are not above the judgment that you place on God as you misrepresent the Christian view.
I never said God committed the sins He originally conceived of. His sin, if you remained consistent with your beliefs, is that He conceived of the grotesque and evil deeds long before they ever were committed. Or are you trying to suggest that lusting after a woman is not a sin?Meanwhile, that God created ex-nihlo is irrelevant to the issue here. The God of the Bible is transcendent over creation and thus not subject to its confines and limitations. Just because God fore-knew that evil would exist, that does not mean that he performed the evil that has occurred. Your attempt to misrepresent the Christian view and then make me account for your misrepresentation has failed. The Christian view is that YOU were created in the image of God with free will and YOU chose to sin; God did not cause you to sin.
love,
stem