Some mainstream Christians believe God is a man

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Ah. So...

That person sitting next to you in the pew, could be a tare.

Absolutely. Being born again is a work of God which results in our faith, repentance and good works. There are many people who go through the motions who are not truly born again, but this usually does not last as was the case with your step mother.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Absolutely. Being born again is a work of God which results in our faith, repentance and good works. There are many people who go through the motions who are not truly born again, but this usually does not last as was the case with your step mother.

So in your theology, a person can not really be sure whether or not they are saved?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

So in your theology, a person can not really be sure whether or not they are saved?

No just the opposite, people who ARE born again know that they are born again and this results in a changed heart, desires, beliefs that are in line with Biblical teaching, and their subsequent works.

1 John 5: 13 "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."


Do you KNOW that you will live with God the Father again? If you answered yes, why would God let you into heaven (LDS celestial kingdom)?

[theway]

Originally Posted by Billyray

No just the opposite, people who ARE born again know that they are born again and this results in a changed heart, desires, beliefs that are in line with Biblical teaching, and their subsequent works.

1 John 5: 13 "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."


Do you KNOW that you will live with God the Father again? If you answered yes, why would God let you into heaven (LDS celestial kingdom)?

So again, my wife, as well as his step mother, who were both “Orthodox Christians” before they converted to LDS, must have known in their hearts they were not saved, but continued to go to their Orthodox Christian churches anyway?
Were they both just a couple of liers?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

So again, my wife, as well as his step mother

Is your wife a man?

Originally Posted by theway

who were both “Orthodox Christians” before they converted to LDS, must have known in their hearts they were not saved, but continued to go to their Orthodox Christian churches anyway?
Were they both just a couple of liers?

If they were truly born again believes then why did they leave true Christianity for a false religion?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by theway

So again, my wife, as well as his step mother, who were both “Orthodox Christians” before they converted to LDS, must have known in their hearts they were not saved, but continued to go to their Orthodox Christian churches anyway?
Were they both just a couple of liers?

Your wife and HER mother never knew they had Eternal Life.. They didn't see salvation as a possession that Jesus had already given them (1 John 5:13).. If they had they wouldn't have been looking for another way to get what they already had.. I would say that many Sunday Morning Christians are that say way.. They never open their Bibles and never call on God in prayer unless tragedy comes into their life. They know of God but have never received Him as Lord and savior (John 1:12) given themselves to Him. But a child of God lives for Him in their life.. Allowing Him to use them for His glory. Following His commandment to come into the world with His word, and to reach out in love to those in need (Matthew 28:19-20) IHS jim

[theway]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Is your wife a man?

Sorry was talking about Fig's Step Mother

Originally Posted by Billyray

If they were truly born again believes then why did they leave true Christianity for a false religion?

Because they truly became born again.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

Because they truly became born again.

What does born again mean to you?

Do you think the source of becoming born again is from man or from God?

[theway]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Your wife and HER mother never knew they had Eternal Life.. They didn't see salvation as a possession that Jesus had already given them (1 John 5:13).. If they had they wouldn't have been looking for another way to get what they already had.. I would say that many Sunday Morning Christians are that say way.. They never open their Bibles and never call on God in prayer unless tragedy comes into their life. They know of God but have never received Him as Lord and savior (John 1:12) given themselves to Him. But a child of God lives for Him in their life.. Allowing Him to use them for His glory. Following His commandment to come into the world with His word, and to reach out in love to those in need (Matthew 28:19-20) IHS jim

Once again I meant Fig's step mother,
However, you appear to know absolutely nothing about my wife, I’m alone here with some of the kids on Thanksgiving because she is not one of those Sunday morning Christians, she practices what she preaches, she fasted on Thanksgiving, because she went off to help the homeless. When she left her other Church she did not do what so many here do, and become critics, in fact we usually go to her old “Orthodox Christian Church” about once every other month. The both of us are involved with multiple charities which requires us to get together with other types of churches and religions. She would put us in the poor house helping others if I let her. I’ve seen her put her life in danger many times to save others. Reads the Bible at least 2 hours a day, still speaks in tongues in her closet, prays and plays gospel all day. I only say this to show the type of person she has always been, before she was a member of the LDS church and after.
Needless to say, all those years when she went to the another church she was told she was saved, and she believed it.

Was she lying to herself , did she know in fact she wasn’t saved, but somehow kept it a secret even to herself?

Another true story… my old Bishop when he was young, before he was a member of the LDS church, felt the spirit, made the alter call, called for forgiveness of his sins, and went headlong into an Evangelical Church. At the time the minister told him he was saved, that no matter what he did, murder, rape, etc. he could not lose that salvation. He believed it with every fiber. He took Bible lessons and than became a Bible studies teacher. After that he felt the calling and became a youth minister for many years. He, like my wife was not lax in their helping people in need. One day someone gave him a Book of Mormon, he took it to his old minister and asked him what it was. His old minister told him to throw it away, that if he read it he would lose his salvation. That’s when the house of Evangelical cards came tumbling down. Like any reasonable person, he wondered how he could commit the most heinous crimes and still be saved, but simply reading a book would cause him to lose it all.

What about him, was he saved? He certainly believed so.

Another true tale, A critic of the LDS church far more knowledgeable and a most adamant anti Mormonist than anyone here, Like most critics here he would tell the LDS that they could be ***ured of their salvation as he was. He is now an LDS member.

Did he lose his salvation?

Libby over at CC was LDS, and then became an “Orthodox Christian” everybody hailed the fact that she was now saved and could be ***ured of that fact, and she believed she was. She then came back to the Church, so I posed the question over at CC as to whether she was still saved. The answer was that it was obvious that she must never have been saved to begin with. She is now no longer LDS again. She believes she is saved.

Is she fooling herself again?

I could go on and on, but here are four scenarios, and four questions. Saved or not saved?

[contraeverything]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

My step mother, (who was Baptist for 60-some years, but is now LDS), revealed to me the other day that while she was a Baptist, she always believed in her heart that God was a man, and not a spirit.

I wonder how common this belief is among mainstream Christian persons?

My granddad never believed man walked on the moon.

Your point?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

My step mother, (who was Baptist for 60-some years, but is now LDS), revealed to me the other day that while she was a Baptist, she always believed in her heart that God was a man, and not a spirit.

I wonder how common this belief is among mainstream Christian persons?

Very, because it is correct in that God became flesh, the flesh of a human.

This is also why we teach that Mary was the mother of God.

We can say this knowing that God has no mother, yet for the salvation of men the Lord was born of a woman, and thus has a mother.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Very, because it is correct in that God became flesh, the flesh of a human.

This is also why we teach that Mary was the mother of God.

We can say this knowing that God has no mother, yet for the salvation of men the Lord was born of a woman, and thus has a mother.

So God is not man.
But God wrapped himself in our human flesh so that he could die.
But knowing this we must always understand that God is not able to die, nor is God flesh.

[John T]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Very, because it is correct in that God became flesh, the flesh of a human.

This is also why we teach that Mary was the mother of God.

We can say this knowing that God has no mother, yet for the salvation of men the Lord was born of a woman, and thus has a mother.

That which you made bold is a ROMAN CATHOLIC TEACHING.

Although Nestorius, once an Archbishop of Constantinople was exiled to a monastery due to his christological heresies, it is my opinion that he did get the ***le of Mary correct. He called her "thetokos" meaning "God bearer". That is not 100% theologically correct, but it comes as close as possible to explaining that she was the vessel through which Jesus was born, and through which the curse of Satan in Genesis 3 was accomplished.

[alanmolstad]

Mary gave birth to jesus ...and jesus is both god and man...this is the heart of catholic /christian teaching...

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Mary gave birth to jesus ...and jesus is both god and man...this is the heart of catholic /christian teaching...

What are you trying to say here? If Jesus is 100% God then that is what He has always been forever and ever.. He became man by putting on flesh and dwelling among us.. Then we can say that Jesus is the Eternal God who is the Son only because of the flesh.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by James Banta

What are you trying to say here? ......

That the Christian teaching is that Jesus is the God-Man....one person with two different natures.

Now the original post was dealing with the idea that some Christians were said to have the idea that God is a man...
And the truth is that you have to be careful to define your terms and provide some context, because we do in fact see in the Bible that Jesus is both 100% God and 100% man.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

That the Christian teaching is that Jesus is the God-Man....one person with two different natures.

Now the original post was dealing with the idea that some Christians were said to have the idea that God is a man...
And the truth is that you have to be careful to define your terms and provide some context, because we do in fact see in the Bible that Jesus is both 100% God and 100% man.

There is a huge difference between a religion that teaches that God became a man and one that teaches that a man became a God, had spirit children one of whom became a God then became a man in order to allow other men to become gods.. So why do we even care to tell the LDS the truth about their doctrines, their church? Because Jesus commanded us to love them. Allowing them to go into eternity hoping in a false god and their own good works is not love.. IHS jim

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

My step mother, (who was Baptist for 60-some years, but is now LDS), revealed to me the other day that while she was a Baptist, she always believed in her heart that God was a man, and not a spirit.

I wonder how common this belief is among mainstream Christian persons?

She must never have been a CHRISTIAN either. After all, you don't leave CHRISTIANITY to become a cultist if you were ever a CHRISTIAN.

Paul spoke about it:

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
NKJV

For an unbeliever to have false beliefs is normal.

In Christ Jesus,
fish

[alanmolstad]

I cant judge the lady, all i know is that she was headed in the right direction and must have been mixed up....and I would tend to cut her some slack on this issue.

God was made made man, this is what the bible teaches.

So in Christ we do share in his humanity.
Thus there is room to give her the benefit of the doubt because she is not actually here to tell us for herself what she was talking about.

I believe that if a person is a Christian that this will not protect them from getting mixed up in teachings, and it is very easy to get mixed up with the JWs or Mormons or other cults due to family connections.

And who knows, perhaps in the case we are talking about here, that this lady felt she had to attend a Mormon church out of simple loyalty to her family, but that she also likely considered the Mormon's teachings nuts.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I cant judge the lady, all i know is that she was headed in the right direction and must have been mixed up....and I would tend to cut her some slack on this issue.

God was made made man, this is what the bible teaches.

So in Christ we do share in his humanity.
Thus there is room to give her the benefit of the doubt because she is not actually here to tell us for herself what she was talking about.

I believe that if a person is a Christian that this will not protect them from getting mixed up in teachings, and it is very easy to get mixed up with the JWs or Mormons or other cults due to family connections.

And who knows, perhaps in the case we are talking about here, that this lady felt she had to attend a Mormon church out of simple loyalty to her family, but that she also likely considered the Mormon's teachings nuts.

May I share with you. I was born and raised a Mormon. There were several doctrines as a member that I couldn't except. What I can tell you is this, when I left Mormonism it was devastating to my parents, since I was the youngest and the only daughter but accepting Christ as my Savior was more important then making my parents happy. I was put through hell by my mother who called me everyday to rack me over the coals and would question me as to why I didn't love them and why did I do that to them. For a short time I was feeling guilty but one day as I was reading the scriptures I ran across this verse: Matt. 10:37, "He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.…" This verse helped me so much for I knew without a doubt that my thoughts and living my life was for Christ, not my parents, and not a church.

[alanmolstad]

cool story....

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Christian

She must never have been a CHRISTIAN either. After all, you don't leave CHRISTIANITY to become a cultist if you were ever a CHRISTIAN.

Paul spoke about it:

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
NKJV

For an unbeliever to have false beliefs is normal.

In Christ Jesus,
fish

I totally agree with you on this point. There is a poster here, who was once a Baptist but became a Mormon. Was this person ever saved, ever a Christian? How can a person who has a heart knowledge of our Savior, EVER leave that saving knowledge and join a cult? Guess this person never was listening to what was being taught or at the time it didn't mean anything to them. Very sad. We were told by Christ: James 2:19, "You believe that there is one God; you do well: the demons also believe, and tremble." So, if demons believe, we know they are NOT saved. They have a head knowledge is all and that will get them no where in the end. Unfortunately, the LDS don't even believe what demons do, for they believe in many gods and believe that they too can become a god if they live and obey ALL their churches laws and ordinances and endure to the end. Guess, our Savior's death on the cross means nothing to them

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by neverending

I totally agree with you on this point. There is a poster here, who was once a Baptist but became a Mormon. Was this person ever saved, ever a Christian? How can a person who has a heart knowledge of our Savior, EVER leave that saving knowledge and join a cult? Guess this person never was listening to what was being taught or at the time it didn't mean anything to them. Very sad. We were told by Christ: James 2:19, "You believe that there is one God; you do well: the demons also believe, and tremble." So, if demons believe, we know they are NOT saved. They have a head knowledge is all and that will get them no where in the end. Unfortunately, the LDS don't even believe what demons do, for they believe in many gods and believe that they too can become a god if they live and obey ALL their churches laws and ordinances and endure to the end. Guess, our Savior's death on the cross means nothing to them

Then by the same token could we say that you were never really a Mormon?

[alanmolstad]

what the Bible teaches is that if a person is a true believer, that they will not ever lose this salvation.
However the Christian can fall into all kinds of error and will be disiplined by the Lord for this...but because our salvation is the Lord's word we never lose our salvation.

Yet, people that were once sure "looking" like they were christian do fall into false teachings and end up in Cults like the Mormons, JWs, Moonies, etc,

What the Bible teaches is that such people were never really Christian in the first place.
The might have said the right words, but the seed never took hold in their hearts.

So this is why we might hear that a person who used to go to a Christian church now ended up going to a false religion.

What I try to keep in mind however is that the Bible is also very clear that the calling to come to the Church goes out to all men.
And that you will always find the Lord with open arms should you hear His voice, and repent and believe in the Son of God.

So that is why I always try to offer a wise word for people to reexamine their faith in light of our christian teachings.
To be ready to answer any questions they might have about my own faith.
And to try to go the extra mile for the unbelievers that try to task me.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

what the Bible teaches is that if a person is a true believer, that they will not ever lose this salvation.

How does a person gain the knowledge that he or she is a true believer? In other words, how does a person know that he or she will never fall away at some point in the future? Can we see the future, and thus know that in the future we remain a true believer?

Or is your statement "if a person is a true believer, that they will not ever lose this salvation" meant to be conditional promise, where we can be confident in the promised salvation that will be ours if we do our part and remain faithful--so it's more a case of a covenant, where the person has faith that God will keep His promise as long as we keep our promise to remain true to Him?