Quote Originally Posted by RGS View Post
If I were interested in doing more study of Ignatius, I would need the Greek texts that had not been handled or interpreted by RCC employees.
Uh, RGS, those same letters were translated by a Protestant. They read the same, for instance, in Cyril Richardson's translation.

CR trans:

"They hold aloof from the Eucharist and from services of prayer, because they refuse to admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins and which, in his goodness, the Father raised [from the dead]. "

What I posted:

" They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again."

It's almost EXACTLY the same.

How about the next quote? Well, let's see shall we?

CR's trans:

"You should regard that Eucharist as valid which is celebrated either by the bishop or by someone he authorizes.  2Where the bishop is present, there let the congregation gather, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

What I posted:

"Let that Eucharist be held valid which is offered by the bishop or by the one to whom the bishop has committed this charge. Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

It's almost EXACTLY the same.

Next one.

CR's trans.:

"Be careful, then, to observe a single Eucharist. For there is one flesh of our Lord, Jesus Christ, and one cup of his blood that makes us one, and one altar, just as there is one bishop along with the presbytery and the deacons, my fellow slaves. In that way whatever you do is in line with God's will."

What I posted:

"Be ye careful therefore to observe one eucharist (for there is one flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ and one cup unto union in His blood; there is one altar, as there is one bishop, together with the presbytery and the deacons my fellow-servants), that whatsoever ye do, ye may do it after God."

Almost exactly the same. Imagine that. So, a real Protestant scholar, who knew more than you ever will, effectively translated just as I posted it.


Quote Originally Posted by RGS View Post
The word Eucharist, as used by the RCC, has nothing to do with the Greek word eucharisteo/ia/os that is translated into gladness/thankfulness/thankful in the New Testament. The use of the word "Eucharist" by the RCC has taken on a new meaning from its original meaning in the Greek.
Protestants - who aren't sciolists about Christianity as you are - recognize "Eucharist" in its literal Greek meaning and in it's relation to THE Eucharist.

Quote Originally Posted by RGS View Post
If an RCC employee has made a corrupt translation of Ignatius' writings, that would be in line with their other deceptions. So, I can't take your word for what Ignatius said as your translation relates.
RGS, you are making the saddest excuses I have seen on the part of an anti-Catholic in quite some time. Congratulations. You have entered the realm of anti-Catholic irrelevancy. Protestants translate the relevant quotes the same way as Catholics and Eastern Orthodox do.


Quote Originally Posted by RGS View Post
Because in 110 AD, the RCC definition of "Eucharist" did not exist in the Greek language of that era. So, if Ignatius only had the word eucharisteo (which means gladness) available to him in the Greek language of the Roman and Byzantine periods, how could he use it to describe the current day RCC "Eucharist"? Simple answer, he could not.
Uh, RGS, as CR makes clear, the work Eucharist already meant THE EUCHARIST when St. Ignatius was writing. You lose. How embarr***ing.


St. Justin Martyr wrote:


"This food we call the Eucharist, of which no one is allowed to partake except one who believes that the things we teach are true, and has received the washing for forgiveness of sins and for rebirth, and who lives as Christ handed down to us. For we do not receive these things as common bread or common drink; but as Jesus Christ our Savior being incarnate by God's Word took flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food consecrated by the Word of prayer which comes from him, from which our flesh and blood are nourished by transformation, is the flesh and blood of that incarnate Jesus." "First Apology", Ch. 66, inter A.D. 148-155

St. Irenaeus wrote:

"[Christ] has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be his own Blood, from which he causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, he has established as his own Body, from which he gives increase to our bodies."
St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Against Heresies, 180 A.D.:

"So then, if the mixed cup and the manufactured bread receive the Word of God and become the Eucharist, that is to say, the Blood and Body of Christ, which fortify and build up the substance of our flesh, how can these people claim that the flesh is incapable of receiving God's gift of eternal life, when it is nourished by Christ's Blood and Body and is His member? As the blessed apostle says in his letter to the Ephesians, 'For we are members of His Body, of His flesh and of His bones' (Eph. 5:30). He is not talking about some kind of 'spiritual' and 'invisible' man, 'for a spirit does not have flesh an bones' (Lk. 24:39). No, he is talking of the organism possessed by a real human being, composed of flesh and nerves and bones. It is this which is nourished by the cup which is His Blood, and is fortified by the bread which is His Body. The stem of the vine takes root in the earth and eventually bears fruit, and 'the grain of wheat falls into the earth' (Jn. 12:24), dissolves, rises again, multiplied by the all-containing Spirit of God, and finally after skilled processing, is put to human use. These two then receive the Word of God and become the Eucharist, which is the Body and Blood of Christ." -"Five Books on the Unmasking and Refutation of the Falsely Named Gnosis". Book 5:2, 2-3, circa 180 A.D.

"For just as the bread which comes from the earth, having received the invocation of God, is no longer ordinary bread, but the Eucharist, consisting of two realities, earthly and heavenly, so our bodies, having received the Eucharist, are no longer corruptible, because they have the hope of the resurrection." -"Five Books on the Unmasking and Refutation of the Falsely named Gnosis". Book 4:18 4-5, circa 180 A.D.