This just in...

[Saxon]

According to science, the start of the universe was the Big Bang.
All that we see around us in our universe had this one single starting point.
Every star , every dead world like our moon, every earth-like planet we might see in the future, is made from stuff that came forth from the Big Bang.

In the Bible this very same moment is talked about at Genesis 1:1 " In the beginning God created the Heavens and the earth."
The word "Heavens" has several meanings in the Bible and in different contexts, but of these many understandings of the word is the idea for the "Full canopy of the night sky" .........in other words all the stars and galaxies of the universe.

So like what we find in science, the Bible also has the creation of the "heavens" as being the very first thing listed that God has made.



But what about life?
Is there agreement about where all life is from in both Science and in Genesis?......yes there is!


Now according to Science all the life we see on the earth is just the natural result of change on the earth.
That life is just the earth itself ....that Life is part of the Earth.
In other words....animals and humans are just a part of the earth that has come to life....

Is this all that different than what the Bible teaches in Genesis?.......Nope!

"And God said, Let the earth bring forth gr***"
"And the earth brought forth gr***"
"And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature"
"And God made the beast of the earth"

"And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree"
"And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air"

So what we see in the Genesis story is the clear fact that God made all life out of this very earth itself.
Life, be it the life found in the plant world, or the life found in the animal kingdom, is all from this very same single source....and that source is the very ground of the earth itself!


So there is complete agreement about the source of life in both Evolution and in Genesis!

The text does not indicate the “Big Bang Theory”. It is just a theory. The text does say that God is the creator of all things. There is nothing that indicates how he did it other than he spoke it into existence. (Hebrews 11:3) This also can mean that Jesus, the word of God, made the worlds out of nothing. There is no room for the big Bang Theory

When you read the Bible, don’t read into it what is clearly not there. God made each item and living thing. There is no agreement between creation and evolution.

Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

But what about humans?
Are we also from the same source?


yes we are!!!!!!!!!

Genesis 2:7 states that the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. That sounds more like the direct creation of man by the very act of God creating man out of the dust of the Earth than a long process of evolution. Evolution is just a bogus idea to relieve man of the responsibility of answering to a Holy God.

Genesis 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Saxon

Genesis 2:7 states that the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground,

I believe the point I was making is that in the Bible we see that humans share a common source....a starting point with the animals, (like the great apes)

That source is the very ground of the earth itself.

According to the Text we are part of the Earth that has come to life.
(as all all the other animals that we share this with)

[Saxon]

You are missing the whole point of the Bible. God created. creation and evolution are diametrically opposed. All lies have a bit of truth.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Saxon

You are missing the whole point of the Bible. God created. creation and evolution are diametrically opposed. All lies have a bit of truth.

You are welcome to quote a verse that I might have missed?

[Saxon]

Do you even know what evolutionists believe? It isn't the Bible.

[alanmolstad]

When we die do we return to the ground that Evolution claims we came forth from?.

[alanmolstad]

Yes or no?........

[Saxon]

Where does evolution state that man comes from the ground, the Bible says that, not evolution.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Saxon

Where does evolution state that man comes from the ground, the Bible says that, not evolution.

So.....if I can show you that evolution does trace back all life to the very building blocks of the first life that are actually part of the earth itself, then you will agree with me that Evolution and Genesis agree?

if that is so then we should be able to wrap this up soon I would guess

[alanmolstad]

See what happens is that when a YEC teacher starts to read the text without the mental "filter" of the many YEC books and websites blinding him to what the Text actually says, they soon discover that what the text says is not all that different that what they used to think Evolution was wrong to say.

The YEC has for years believed that the first thing the Bible teaches that God created "light" before he created a "source" for that light.
The YEC is therefore a bit shocked at first to see that the Text actually has God creating the source for light first!

This has got to be a bit upsetting for the former YEC believer because they have for years critized science for teaching that you need a 'source" for light.
Now the former YEC believer sees that God created the source for all the light talked about in Genesis, and that this works well with what science teaches about the evolution of the universe..

Without the need to invent a "sourceless light" the former YEC believer now does not need to be constantly afraid that science is out to prove "There is no God'

Suddenly the former YEC believer can just allow "science to be free to be science!"
There is no more need to attack people that teach evolution!
There is no need to try to ban books of school children.
There is no need to turn the TV off when NASA is reporting some new type of discovery about the age of our universe....

[disciple]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

See what happens is that when a YEC teacher starts to read the text without the mental "filter" of the many YEC books and websites blinding him to what the Text actually says, they soon discover that what the text says is not all that different that what they used to think Evolution was wrong to say.

The YEC has for years believed that the first thing the Bible teaches that God created "light" before he created a "source" for that light.
The YEC is therefore a bit shocked at first to see that the Text actually has God creating the source for light first!

This has got to be a bit upsetting for the former YEC believer because they have for years critized science for teaching that you need a 'source" for light.
Now the former YEC believer sees that God created the source for all the light talked about in Genesis, and that this works well with what science teaches about the evolution of the universe..

Without the need to invent a "sourceless light" the former YEC believer now does not need to be constantly afraid that science is out to prove "There is no God'

Suddenly the former YEC believer can just allow "science to be free to be science!"
There is no more need to attack people that teach evolution!
There is no need to try to ban books of school children.
There is no need to turn the TV off when NASA is reporting some new type of discovery about the age of our universe....

I think what you are overlooking Alan, is the fact that the most zealous proponents of the theory of evolution are the most zealous deniers of God, sin, judgment and the need for a Savior. Most believers don't have a problem with science or when scientists present theories but evolution has not and cannot be proven and yet it has replaced God in our schools and in the very government that was founded on the Word of God. How can the deniers of God, though "scientists", be considered credible enough to walk hand in hand with the accounts of scripture when scripture itself says they are the enemies of God? God is not mocked Alan, should those who deny His creative power be given authority equal to the account in the Bible? Jesus said if you are not with me you are against me, evolutionists are not with Him and it is not something to be taken lightly.

[Saxon]

Your "mental" filter is what has you confused. God is the source for any light and Jesus is the first light in Genesis.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Saxon

Your "mental" filter is what has you confused. God is the source for any light and Jesus is the first light in Genesis.

Saxon, if at any time you read something I have posted that you think the bible does not support?...just ask me to 'Back that up!"...."Show me a verse!" and I will be happy to drop back and supply a verse that supports anything I have said.


But as I dont see any requests yet to back up what i have posted so far...Im going to keep going and build on the post I just wrote above that shows a normal conversation I have had on this topic over the years...

[Saxon]

Anything that you say about evolution is not supported by the Bible. if you can't support your comments when you make them I am sure that you won't after the fact. Evolution says we came from lower creatures and the Bible says that God created us from the dust of the earth and breathed the breath of life into us. We did not evolve. Your ancestors may have been apes, mine were men that God created as men.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Saxon

Anything that you say about evolution is not supported by the Bible. if you can't support your comments when you make them I am sure that you won't after the fact. Evolution says we came from lower creatures and the Bible says that God created us from the dust of the earth and breathed the breath of life into us. We did not evolve. Your ancestors may have been apes, mine were men that God created as men.

If you have a question or want me to look at a verse or two?...

But if not?
well, then you don't have much to add to our conversation and I will return to just encouraging Disciple to toss a few ideas my way...

[Saxon]

Your explanation of the light in Genesis 1:3 is not comparable with scripture. The light in Genesis 1:3 was NOT a creation but a revealing of THE light. Jesus is the light of the world.

Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Saxon

Your explanation of the light in Genesis 1:3 is not comparable with scripture. The light in Genesis 1:3 was NOT a creation but a revealing of THE light......
.

I think you are confused as to who is saying what...


I have talked about that while I was in the cl*** room learning the YEC teachings from Mr Ham, that he taught that the first thing the Bible tells us god made was "the light".....



that is NOT what i believe!



but to make sure I am telling you clearly what I see the text talking abut, I will say one more time what Im reading in the Text.


here we go-

The first thing the Bible tells us God "created" was the heavens.
I believe this is simply the correct word to describe .....EVERYTHING!
Every sun...all the different worlds..all the moons, and the gas, all the galaxies...all that "stuff" out there in space and even the space itself.

All that I believe is correctly called in the Bible by the single term, "heavens"

So I have therefore a source for all the light talked about later, both the light of the 1st day, as well as the lights for the 4th day.
All the light has its source listed for us in the very first verse of the Bible.


So in a very real way I agree with you about the unveiling of the light with the words, "Let there be light".

I just try to show people that the bible talks about the source for that light even before it talks about the light itself!







So there is no need to find something else for the word "light" to mean.
No need to run around and turn the word "light" into something meaning other things....

No need to make it spiritual.

No need to make it symbolic

No need to make it magic light.

No need to search all other the whole rest of the bible for ways to understand the word "light" aside from the normal meaning of the word...


To me, the "light" of Genesis is just simply that....simply normal light that we still see today!






It dont have to be anything more than what it says it is...

[Saxon]

I think you are confused as to who is saying what...

There is no confusion on my part as to who said what, God said. (See Genesis 1:3)

Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

I have talked about that while I was in the cl*** room learning the YEC teachings from Mr Ham, that he taught that the first thing the Bible tells us god made was "the light".....

that is NOT what i believe!

Mr. Ham is a man and may not get it to perfection in one point. You don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

but to make sure I am telling you clearly what I see the text talking abut, I will say one more time what Im reading in the Text.


here we go-

The first thing the Bible tells us God "created" was the heavens.
I believe this is simply the correct word to describe .....EVERYTHING!
Every sun...all the different worlds..all the moons, and the gas, all the galaxies...all that "stuff" out there in space and even the space itself.

All that I believe is correctly called in the Bible by the single term, "heavens"

Yes, that is the overall view of what was done. The next is a more detailed description of when it was done. Read the text!!

So I have therefore a source for all the light talked about later, both the light of the 1st day, as well as the lights for the 4th day.
All the light has its source listed for us in the very first verse of the Bible.

Yes, that is the overall view of what was done. The next is a more detailed description of when it was done. Read the text!!

So in a very real way I agree with you about the unveiling of the light with the words, "Let there be light".

I just try to show people that the bible talks about the source for that light even before it talks about the light itself!

You need to get it in the right prospective and see that the Bible is all you need to no the truth of creation.

How do you come to terms with the idea that man came about through millions of years of evolving from a one celled creature to a fully functioning human and the Bible stating that God created man out of the dust of the earth and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life? God breathed into his nostrils, not into an amoeba. (See Genesis 2:7)

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

So there is no need to find something else for the word "light" to mean.
No need to run around and turn the word "light" into something meaning other things....

No need to make it spiritual.

No need to make it symbolic

No need to make it magic light.

No need to search all other the whole rest of the bible for ways to understand the word "light" aside from the normal meaning of the word...


To me, the "light" of Genesis is just simply that....simply normal light that we still see today!

How can you be agreeing with me if you go right back to your original position that the light that was brought forth is the same light that you see today when the sun and the moon were created on the 4th day? The light that is seen today is the light given off from the sun. It was not there when God said let there be light. You can’t have it both ways.

It dont have to be anything more than what it says it is...

You still need to figure out what it says.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Saxon

How can you be agreeing with me if you go right back to your original position that the light that was brought forth is the same light that you see today when the sun and the moon were created on the 4th day? The light that is seen today is the light given off from the sun. It was not there when God said let there be light. You can’t have it both ways.





.

What I teach my students is this...


The "light"talked about with the verse that says "Let there be light", that light is just the normal light of the sun we still see today.
This is not written to be tricky...
the light is just that.,,"Normal light:...

normal light from the normal sun...

Nothing changed...

the light Moses talked about came from the same sun that gives us our light today...the light has not changed at all over the years...its the same light!

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

normal light from the normal sun...

!

This is the core difference I have with my ideas and the ideas of the YEC teachers.

They teach that the light was something else.

I teach that the light was just what it says it was...."light"










They actually will have all their ideas fall like a house of cards if one thing is true, and that one thing is that if the "light" is actually just normal light.
Thinkwhat a worry that must be for the YEc teachers!
Think how they must struggle all the time to make what the Bible says into something that is not written there???





Its so much more easy to just read, "Let there be light" and believe it as written.
I dont have any need at all to try to convince people that "Oh the light must be talking about something else!....It cant just be simply light!"







When Im teaching this part of Genesis to students of the bible, and we come to this verse where it says, "Let there be light" and the student asks me, "Whatis that?"
Its so much more easy to say, "Thats talking about light" rather than needing to find a tricky way to replace the word found there in the Bible with some other idea.

And its so much more easy to be able to point right out the window at something real when a student asks, "Where did this light come from?"

[Saxon]

Try to address my comments on the light. I am getting tired of your mantra that you keep repeating.

[Saxon]

There was no sun until the fourth day, therefore no normal light as we see it today. God said "let there be light" on the first day. You are seriously deluded about the light. you need to read the text!!

[Saxon]

Evolution and Genesis DO NOT agree. That is all there is to it.

[Saxon]

Show the changes brought about by evolution.

[Saxon]

Natural growth is NOT evolution.