This just in...

[disciple]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Are you familiar with what it means when words appear in brackets then in your bible?





My Point?

My point is that you made the suggestion that because you found a Bible translation that was older than the King James I quoted and with your older version of bible you tried to put forward the idea that the words "he made" were in the text, and not just something added by men later as I claimed..

Now it is true that the version you relied on had simply had the words "he made" appearing without the brackets found in the better King James, and I can understand that this might get a bible student a bit mixed up.

at first glance a person might get the idea that the lack of brackets in your older translation might well prove that the words were not added as I claim...


However....I believe I have debunked that idea...



Thats the best way to get you to finally see that- "Alan always knows what he is talking about, and everything he says he can point to a verse to support."

Hi Alan,
No, my intention was to point out that words added for clarity are not a conspiracy by Ken Ham and his followers.
Anyone who has ever translated from one language to another knows that words must be added to the finished work to complete the sentence structure of the new language. All translators do this when translating the Bible. The King James translators were men of integrity so they put the added words in italics.
Psalm 23:1 reads "The LORD is my shepherd" in the King James Bible. The word "is" was added by the translators to complete the sense of the sentence.
The meaning isn't changed just as the meaning in Gen. 1:16 isn't changed.

[disciple]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Thats the best way to get you to finally see that- "Alan always knows what he is talking about, and everything he says he can point to a verse to support."

Please point to a verse that supports the theory that men evolved from apes.

[alanmolstad]

The text of the Bible works within the teachings of science.
The two different works look at history from different points of view but also work with each other to help understand early earth history

[alanmolstad]

Science and Genesis trace life back to the same source...just like when we die we "return" to the place we came from.

[alanmolstad]

I have already listed the verse that shows both humans and animal life come from the same place....

[alanmolstad]

When I get on my computer tonight I will list for you the post where I show you all this stuff

I believe I also answer this same question when I posted a conversation I have with people

[disciple]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I have already listed the verse that shows both humans and animal life come from the same place....

Yes, but that's not evolution. Just because God made humans and animals from the same elements or dust of the earth, it doesn't mean one evolved from the other.

[alanmolstad]

Have I ever said that Genesis taught evolution? ....

No...so.what have I said over and over?

[alanmolstad]

The source is the same. ...trace back life to the source in both and you end up at the same place




In other words I'm right again

[disciple]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

The source is the same. ...trace back life to the source in both and you end up at the same place




In other words I'm right again

Ok Alan, so how about a straight answer. Do you believe humans evolved from apes or not?

[alanmolstad]

Dust....the ground of this earth.
That is the source for both animal and human life...in both Evolution as well as the Genesis story..

That is what I can prove. ..so that is what I believe. ..that is what I teach..

Everything I say is always backed up with the holy scriptures.
When I tell you that the first thing the bible listed as created by God as the heavens and so this tells us the source for all the "lights" talked about in Genesis. ..You can trust I can point to a verse that teaches this..


Alan does not make this stuff up.

When I say that the bible does not say the sun was made on the 4th day ...I can back that up with the Text!

WHEN....wwhen I say that genesis teaches animal and human life came from the same source. ..I can back that up with a verse of the bible!

[alanmolstad]

see guys, when I post stuff like that above , stuff that is clearly and totally in full disagreement with the teachings of Young Earth Creationism, you should demand I post a verse that proves my teachings!

When I say that the first thing the Bible states that god created was the "heavens" Im either right or Im totally wrong.

If Im wrong about this then Young earth creationism is correct and you should not listen to me any more.



In the same way, When I say that the Bible does not say the "Sun" was made on the 4th day, either Im right or Im wrong.

If Im wrong?...then YEC is totally correct and all of science and all of modern thought on how the universe is running is in error and you should not listen to me any more.


If I say that the Bible does indeed trace back all animals and all humans to a single common source just as taught in Evolution, Im right or Im wrong.

Which is it?


When I say that the darkness of Genesis is talked about in the book of *** and the reason for it is revealed, Im right or Im wrong...
There is no wiggle room here....

I state these things as being black and white in the scriptures.

Im not allowing myself a backdoor to sneak out of being caught telling a falsehood.

Either Im right and always have been, or Im wrong and I have been wrong from the start.


If I have said one word that I cant back up with a verse out of the Bible, that I have lied, for I have said over and over that I will only post things here that I know are true and I know I can supply a verse to support.
If I cant do that then Im wrong...

When I tell you that the words "he made" are an addition to the Bible , Im right or Im wrong.
If you can find proof that they are not an addition?....then Im wrong, dont listen to me any more.



But If you think Im right?......then that means that all of the Young Earth Creationism teachings are a lie.......

[Saxon]

He doesn't give straight answers often.

[Saxon]

That is the point, the Bible does not teach evolution, therefor evolution is not biblical. you are following a pipe dream.

[alanmolstad]

Ask me to back up anything I have said.....that's all you have to do.

If I have said even one thing that can't find support in the bible?...then don't listen to me.

But if you never ask me to post a verse to support a view you simply disagree with?......I got to believe you know I have a verse ready to go...

[Saxon]

Evolution.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Saxon

Evolution.

I'm not sure if you think you are being clever or what?

But I will just point out to all reading this that no one seems to dare ask me to back up anything I have said the bible teaches....

I believe the reason is that people are starting to catch on.....ALAN CAN BACK EVERYTHING HE SAYS!!!!!



It must be a bit frustrating for some to find that the bible simple does not teach YEC like they were always told it did....

[Saxon]

There is no verses in the Bible that supports evolution. If there is show it to me and back it up.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Saxon

There is no verses in the Bible that supports evolution. If there is show it to me and back it up.

as I have said, the teachings of Genesis work within the teachings of evolution,in that within both teachings we see that all is traced back to the very same starting point...the same source in finally arrived at within both teachings.


God did not simply "pop" life into being....
God did not wave a magic stick and "Shazam!"...life was all over fully formed.

Rather the Bible tells us very clearly that God commanded "The Earth" to bring forth life.....

( see Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature")


The EARTH.......THE EARTH brought forth life!!!!!!

and in The Bible tells us that when we die we RETURN to the earth.
Not just "go to the earth"....But God was very clear when he told us that when we die we "RETURN" to the earth.
For the earth is our final source.
That is where we are from.

(see Genesis 3:19 until you return to the ground,since from it you were taken")


this is why when we die we are not said to "return to nothingness"...
And that is key to understand for a lot of people trapped in YEC teachings dont have a clue about what the Bible actually says we are from.

They keep telling me, "But Alan, man was made in the image of God", and that we are not from the same common source as all the animals (like the great apes)

But the Bible tells us we are just the same as the great apes , and the other animals, in that both humans and the animals stem from the same single common source.



This is as we can understand what Evolution teaches as well.




So while the Bible does not teach evolution, you do see how the two teachings do walk hand in hand to offer the student a very well-rounded understanding of early earth history...









How about the evolution of stars?
Does the story in genesis fit within what science teaches about the evolution of stars?



Now many YEC teaches believe that god created the light from stars in a different way that science teaches...
They say that god created the light 'in transit"....

This is how they get out of the painted corner of there being light coming from stars millions of light years away.
....

I believe all that YEC **** about light created "in transit" is a lie.


I believe the light we see fits within the teachings of science and genesis just fine, and that there is no need to make the light 'magic' just to understand how it got here from millions of years ago.

This is because I have God creating the stars like our own sun right at the start of the story.
this means I dont need a fancy 'source-less' light that has conveniently disappeared ....

My source of light is the same sun we see today.

Nothing is magic
nothing needs to rely on magic....









So it comes down to this:
The YEC teachers believe that the first thing God created was "light"
I believe the first thing the Bible tells us god created was the "Heavens"

Who is right?

[Saxon]

as I have said, the teachings of Genesis work within the teachings of evolution,in that within both teachings we see that all is traced back to the very same starting point...the same source in finally arrived at within both teachings.

You have said that, but you have not shown that evolution is compatible with the creation text.

God did not simply "pop" life into being....
God did not wave a magic stick and "Shazam!"...life was all over fully formed.

ather the Bible tells us very clearly that God commanded "The Earth" to bring forth life.....


The EARTH.......THE EARTH brought forth life!!!!!!

You are totally wrong. God did “pop" life into being. Genesis 1:21 states that God created whales, and every living creature; not a single cell creature. Genesis 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps upon the earth after his kind. Genesis 1:27 states God created man in his own image. There is nowhere in the text that even suggests that God did not “pop” life into being. Read the text, God created everything as it now is by intelligent design, not some primeval soup that everything slithered out of by chance as evolution would have you believe.

The earth brought forth life as the living plants and creatures multiplied after their own kind.

Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
Genesis 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Genesis 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

this is why when we die we are not said to "return to nothingness"...
And that is key to understand for a lot of people trappedin YEC teachings dont have a clue about what the Bible actually says we are from.

They keep telling me, "But Alan, man was made in the image of God", and that we are not from the same common source as all the animals (like the great apes)

But the Bible tells us we are just the same as the great apes , and the other animals, in that both humans and the animals stem from the same single common source.

We are all from the common source; God. God is the architect that designed and made everything that is the earth and upon the earth, not to forget the entire universe. The text clearly states that God created each plant and creature as it is. Show me otherwise from Genesis 1:20 to 28.

This is as we can understand what Evolution teaches as well.

Evolution teaches a come-by-chance appearance of everything and nothing of God.

So while the Bible does not teach evolution, you do see how the two teachings do walk hand in hand to offer the student a very well-rounded understanding of early earth history...

The two teachings are polar opposites and do not walk hand in hand in any way, shape or form. The only statement that you have correct is that the Bible does not teach evolution. Evolution does not teach Bible either.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Saxon

You are totally wrong. God did “pop" life into being.

nope Im not wrong at all...

...man was "formed"...

we are not in the original state,
we did not 'pop" into being, but rather we are a process.

(see Genesis 2 :7 "Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground"

I believe even the word "Adam" is related to the word "ground' in the Bible...that means that we are actually named after what we truly are...."the ground of this earth!"





So Mankind is not just something that popped into being but rather we see in the Text that we are the result of God's careful handiwork.


But what about the animals?
If I am correct in teaching that God "formed" the man and that this word 'formed" tells us that we are the result of careful handiwork and a process, and if Im correct that we share this fact with the animals kingdom too, then I should be able to prove that animals also are spoken of in the Bible to be also be the result of a process....also the result of being "formed' and not simply the result of a magic wand being waved and 'pop" there was a deer.....LOL


and low and behold there is a verse that talks about how animals came to be on the earth!
...Genesis 2:19 " Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals"










the YEC teachers would have us believe that God created life out of "nothingness"

I teach that God used what was, and changed it to be what he had in his designs.
God used raw materials to build his vision of life.



Now evolution is centered around the idea of "change"
One thing becomes another.
and in the bible we see this talked about as well.

[disciple]

Originally Posted by disciple

Ok Alan, so how about a straight answer. Do you believe humans evolved from apes or not?

Sound of crickets....
Jeopardy theme music...
Loud sighs...
ticking clock sounds...

[alanmolstad]

See post 249

[disciple]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

See post 249

Post 249 does not answer my question and as I don't wish to be at odds with you, if you don't wish to answer yes or no I will drop it.

[alanmolstad]

I teach what I believe
I believe what I can prove.

You can read any of my posts and clearly see that I teach that YEC is a lie.
I teach ideas that are totally against YEC.
I ideas that I can support with the bible.

I find that no one that tries to argue against me will rely on the bible for support.

I also find when they face the fact that I can defend all of my posts with the bible that it is then tthat any frustrated YEC believers will try to make this "personal"

They may try to change the topic away from what the Bible says and more about what I'm about...

I don't play tthat game.

Ask me for a verse to support my teachings......



the YEC teacher says LIGHT was the first thing created. ...II say it's the heavens. .....who is right?