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Thread: Picture Proof:Satanic pentagrams on German church

  1. #51
    shoedog
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    Default Venus ain't in my Bible...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mesenja View Post
    The meaning of symbols can only be defined by the person or group using it. This entire accusation that the inverted five-pointed stars or pentagrams that decorate some LDS temples are occultic or even Satanic in nature is nonsense. It is a Christian symbol. The Savior called Himself “the bright…morning star (Revelation 22:16)” which is the planet Venus.

    If you plot the exact position of Venus where it first appears shortly before sunrise after a period of invisibility and repeat this process until we have five positions then draw a line from the first point marked to the second point marked,then to the third,and so on the pentagram within a circle will be the design-iconic symbol.

    The five-pointed star would appear either upright or inverted depending on when a person began to observe and plot the positions of Venus. Only the planet Venus can recreate this five-pointed star sign.





    An example of a pentagram or an inverted five pointed star is found on the icon of the Transfiguration by Andrei Rublev (1405),now located in the Moscow Annunciation Cathedral.





    I could go on but by now I think that you get the point. As to your questioning my logic I could do the same for yours. I would also question how much you studied the topic of pentagrams outisde of reading evangelical counter-cult literature.
    I haven't studied pentagrams much other than noticing the contrast between early Christian sybology and the more current use as satanic symbol. Satan tends to screw up everything.

    Rev 2:28 And I will give him the morning star. KJV

    Being a NASA kid I understand the Venus correlation althoug you could do better pictures with a spirograph. What other designs could you make?... but until Apollo 11 we didn't have any moonstones. Where did the LDS get theirs? shoe
    Last edited by shoedog; 01-06-2010 at 07:30 PM. Reason: goofy

  2. #52
    Father_JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesenja View Post
    However I am not the one that is guilty of this fallacy. I would think that by now you would see this double standard at work. By the way the link works just fine for me. Here is the URL. There should be no excuses now as to why you can't watch this video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIimYfclxl0
    It's hardly "special pleading" which Mormons engage in all the time for the utter lack of textual evidence for the BOM, etc.

    According to some online sources, the pentagram has had a checkered history from pagan times, as well as being used by Christians especially several hundred years ago.

    Again, the question remains as to MOTIVE, mdude.

    When coupled with OTHER PAGAN, MASONIC SYMBOLS on Mormon temples, one could rightly infer that the REASON why the pentagram is used is in conjunction with the OTHER OCCULTIC SYMBOLS.

    Get it?

  3. #53
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    You are willing to use some astrological chart and some art work of medieval origin to try to prove your point? Yes Jesus is the Bright and Morning Star. The harbinger of the Day, the life to come just as the morning star is the announcement of the sun and the day ahead.. The astrology of the planet Venus is not important. Jesus being the announcement of the LIGHT to come and the life for those who trust Him is what counts.. You can continue to point to this these Satanic practices it won't prove anything.. The ancient Church used this as a way to memorialize the suffering of Jesus, and as I have said (no flip flops in my doctrine). All I need for that is the cross.. I will put that symbol on my body and on my church buildings. I will leave all other symbols outside because they can be confused far to easily with Satanic symbols.. IHS jim

  4. #54
    nrajeff
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoedog View Post
    Lol. Your arguments can't withstand scrutiny (or light of truth) so you make stuff up?

    ----Where did shoot anyone holes in my arguments? I was just noting that you are out in wackyville with your rant on the Boy Scouts being a bunch of Satan worshipers. I think your theory is out to lunch. And I think it's YOUR theory that can't hold water. Some of the best men, best leaders, soldiers, patriots, CHURCHMEN in the USA, proudly served in the Boy Scouts.
    Last edited by nrajeff; 01-06-2010 at 09:54 PM.

  5. #55
    shoedog
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    Default google boy scout+arrest

    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeff View Post

    ----Where did shoot anyone holes in my arguments? I was just noting that you are out in wackyville with your rant on the Boy Scouts being a bunch of Satan worshipers. I think your theory is out to lunch. And I think it's YOUR theory that can't hold water. Some of the best men, best leaders, soldiers, patriots, CHURCHMEN in the USA, proudly served in the Boy Scouts.
    Where did I say Boy Scouts were satan worshipers? Regardless, check the news re: Scout leaders and little boys...women scout leaders and their finances, etc.

    Not all scouts are bad apples of course and yes, I think some presidents were scouts...still...

    shoe

  6. #56
    Senior Member Mesenja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesenja View Post
    Handclasp:The clasping of right hands represent the ‘right hand of fellowship’ (Galatians 2:9),but that within the Temple it is symbolic of receiving a handclasp from the Lord and ‘take hold’ of the Him in His holy house (Isaiah 56:4-7).



    Early Christian Hand and Wrist Grips

    God reaching down out of the veil-like cloud,to pull Christ up as he ascends into heaven.








    Adam reaches around a pillar to grasp with his right hand the right hand of Christ.


    Last edited by Mesenja; 01-07-2010 at 05:48 PM.
    Heaven goes by favour;if it went by merit,you would stay out and your dog would go in. ~ Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesenja View Post
    The use of a pentagram or five-pointed star in some Grand Lodge seals and banners as well as on the collar of office worn by the Masters of lodges and Grand Masters of Grand Lodges is strictly ornamental in nature. As to their aprons they have a picture of a compass and a square set at an angle of anywhere between 45° and 80° and, in some older examples,at 90°.



    I worked with a mason that told me that. I have no proof.. Does it make that much difference you just admitted that the repersentation fills their lodges.. IHS jim

  8. #58
    Senior Member Mesenja's Avatar
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    Default Flip Flopping Away

    Many scholars today,believe that the pentagram originated from ancient astronomical observances,tracing the eight-year cycle path of Venus (Also called the Morning and Evening star). It would then be quite logical for Christians to associate the pentagram with Jesus Christ,since he,himself said,

    "I am the root and the offspring of David,and the bright and morning star." (Revelations 22:16)

    The reason Venus appears so bright in our horizon is because it actually reflects the light of the Sun. The symbol is inverted therefore to represent that as it's light is being drawn from from the rising sun the greatness and glory of Jesus Christ has come from God the Father.

    It is also symbolic of those who overcome the world by becoming like Christ and have their "calling and election made sure."

    "And he that overcometh,and keepeth my works unto the end,to him will I give power over the nations:And he shall rule them with a rod of iron;as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers;even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star." (Revelation 2:26-28)

    "We have also a more sure word of prophecy;whereunto ye do well that ye take heed,as unto a light that shineth in a dark place,until the day dawn, and the day star (Morning Star) arise in your hearts:" (2 Peter 1:10,v. 19)

    To include some double standard in your argument in which a person applies standards,principles,rules,etc. to others while taking themself (or those they have a special interest in) to be exempt,without providing adequate justification for the exemption is comitting the fallacy of special pleading. You argue that when used by Christians the pentagram symbolised the five wounds of Jesus. When it is utilized by us on some of our temples it is satanic. You are using a double standard and are therefore guilty of the fallacy of special pleading.

    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    The pentagram was first used in the Church to bring to mind the five wounds of Jesus. Twisting the meaning of these symbols they have been made to equal evil. IHS Jim
    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    At any rate the five pointed star has more to do with Masonry that Christianity. They have incorporated many symbols in to their rites that have more to do with satanic practice than they do with truth. IHS Jim
    Not only that but you flip flopped on your position concerning the use of stars on some of our temples. First you said that "the five pointed star has more to do with Masonry that Christianity. They have incorporated many symbols in to their rites that have more to do with satanic practice than they do with truth." Then you lectured me on how you had a handle on the meaning of the stars on some of our temples and that it was not Masonic in origin. You flip flopped on your position and said "I don't believe Mormons use it as a satanic symbol it represents the telestial kingdom to you."

    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    At any rate the five pointed star has more to do with Masonry that Christianity. They have incorporated many symbols in to their rites that have more to do with satanic practice than they do with truth. IHS Jim
    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    I don't think so. I think I have a handle on why you use the stars. I don't believe Mormons use it as a satanic symbol it represents the telestial kingdom to you.
    The Old Testament law commanded the Israelites,“Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD” (Leviticus 19:28). Yet you say that you will "put that symbol on my body and on my church buildings."

    Also in Sir John Gardner Wilkinson book entitled Wilkinson's Egyptians he shows that the cross was originally a pagan symbol and it existed centuries before Christianity.



    Are we then to conclude from this that you have incorporated the pagan symbol of the cross in to your rites that have more to do with satanic practice than they do with truth? Any reasonable person would say that this would be drawing a false conclusion. Yet that is exactly the basis of the argument that you have given me. You are arguing that since the five pointed star is linked with Masonry and is satanic then the inverted stars on some of our temples are therfore occultic or even satanic in nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    You can continue to point to this these Satanic practices it won't prove anything. The ancient Church used this as a way to memorialize the suffering of Jesus,and as I have said (no flip flops in my doctrine). All I need for that is the cross. I will put that symbol on my body and on my church buildings. I will leave all other symbols outside because they can be confused far to easily with Satanic symbols. IHS Jim
    The inverted pentagram has a long history,and only took on negative connotations in the last one hundred years.

    As I have stated before,

    Quote Originally Posted by Mesenja View Post
    The meaning of symbols can only be defined by the person or group using it.
    Last edited by Mesenja; 01-07-2010 at 10:46 AM.
    Heaven goes by favour;if it went by merit,you would stay out and your dog would go in. ~ Mark Twain

    Abba Xanthus said,"A dog is better than I am,For he has love and does not judge," The Sayings of the Desert Fathers

    "In order to really enjoy a dog,one doesn't merely try to train him to be semi human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." -- Edward Hoagland

  9. #59
    shoedog
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    Default cite sources...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mesenja View Post
    Many scholars today,believe that the pentagram originated from ancient astronomical observances,tracing the eight-year cycle path of Venus (Also called the Morning and Evening star). It would then be quite logical for Christians to associate the pentagram with Jesus Christ,since he,himself said,

    "I am the root and the offspring of David,and the bright and morning star." (Revelations 22:16)

    The reason Venus appears so bright in our horizon is because it actually reflects the light of the Sun. The symbol is inverted therefore to represent that as it's light is being drawn from from the rising sun the greatness and glory of Jesus Christ has come from God the Father.

    It is also symbolic of those who overcome the world by becoming like Christ and have their "calling and election made sure."
    All planets reflect sunlight. Heck, even the moon is a good example. MAybe that's why the LDS have moonstones as well on their temple?

    But, I'd like to see a source or two for scholars claiming the pentagram was derived from the orbits of Venus and I'd wager it ws a pagan group making the association, Druids or even Egyptions perhaps?

    Here's the issue: as you say the upside down pentagram for the most part has a satanic connatation today. Why in the world given the LD Mormon connection with the Masons, moonstones, golden idols, communication with the dead, and so on... why wouldn't the LDS church get rid of this stuff and not appear satanic but actually concerned about the image the present to say, satanists?

    Tanks, shoe

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    Quote Originally Posted by shoedog View Post
    ...why wouldn't the LDS church get rid of this stuff and not appear satanic but actually concerned about the image the present to say, satanists?

    Tanks, shoe
    You're right, the Church should be more concerned with what the world thinks, and should change every time the world's mores change.

  11. #61
    shoedog
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    Default you mean like with polygamy?

    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    You're right, the Church should be more concerned with what the world thinks, and should change every time the world's mores change.
    LDS Mormons already do this... they did it with:

    Polygamy, people of color and priesthood, temple rituals (throat slashing gestures), etc.

    Changes in future will be women's rights, historical accuracy in the BoM, Book of Abraham, etc.

    Face it, LDS mormonsim depends on people accepting links to occult and false teaching. They are changing into more Christian behavior with each generation. Given time, even the pentragrams, moonstones, and Masonic symbols will quietly disappear. Regardless, they'll change because God cares.

    Thanks, shoe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesenja View Post
    Many scholars today,believe that the pentagram originated from ancient astronomical observances,tracing the eight-year cycle path of Venus (Also called the Morning and Evening star). It would then be quite logical for Christians to associate the pentagram with Jesus Christ,since he,himself said,

    "I am the root and the offspring of David,and the bright and morning star." (Revelations 22:16)

    The reason Venus appears so bright in our horizon is because it actually reflects the light of the Sun. The symbol is inverted therefore to represent that as it's light is being drawn from from the rising sun the greatness and glory of Jesus Christ has come from God the Father.

    It is also symbolic of those who overcome the world by becoming like Christ and have their "calling and election made sure."

    "And he that overcometh,and keepeth my works unto the end,to him will I give power over the nations:And he shall rule them with a rod of iron;as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers;even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star." (Revelation 2:26-28)

    "We have also a more sure word of prophecy;whereunto ye do well that ye take heed,as unto a light that shineth in a dark place,until the day dawn, and the day star (Morning Star) arise in your hearts:" (2 Peter 1:10,v. 19)

    To include some double standard in your argument in which a person applies standards,principles,rules,etc. to others while taking themself (or those they have a special interest in) to be exempt,without providing adequate justification for the exemption is comitting the fallacy of special pleading. You argue that when used by Christians the pentagram symbolised the five wounds of Jesus. When it is utilized by us on some of our temples it is satanic. You are using a double standard and are therefore guilty of the fallacy of special pleading.



    Not only that but you flip flopped on your position concerning the use of stars on some of our temples. First you said that "the five pointed star has more to do with Masonry that Christianity. They have incorporated many symbols in to their rites that have more to do with satanic practice than they do with truth." Then you lectured me on how you had a handle on the meaning of the stars on some of our temples and that it was not Masonic in origin. You flip flopped on your position and said "I don't believe Mormons use it as a satanic symbol it represents the telestial kingdom to you."



    The Old Testament law commanded the Israelites,“Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD” (Leviticus 19:28). Yet you say that you will "put that symbol on my body and on my church buildings."

    Also in Sir John Gardner Wilkinson book entitled Wilkinson's Egyptians he shows that the cross was originally a pagan symbol and it existed centuries before Christianity.

    Are we then to conclude from this that you have incorporated the pagan symbol of the cross in to your rites that have more to do with satanic practice than they do with truth? Any reasonable person would say that this would be drawing a false conclusion. Yet that is exactly the basis of the argument that you have given me. You are arguing that since the five pointed star is linked with Masonry and is satanic then the inverted stars on some of our temples are therfore occultic or even satanic in nature.



    The inverted pentagram has a long history,and only took on negative connotations in the last one hundred years.

    As I have stated before,
    Yes Jesus is the best and the brightest of all He is the bright and morning star.. I don't contend against the word.. I don't believe that has anything to do with Venus. It is the first fruit of the resurection the brightest and best amoung us all..

    Do you keep all the words of Jesus? All of them? If you are honest you will say NO.. So if you look at Rev 2:26-28 as being we have to live the whole Law in order to recieve Jesus then no one will ever receive Him.. But If he lives that Law for us and gives to those who become His Children by faith then His words he asks us to keep are simple.. He asked us to Love and hold our faith (Eph 3:17).. If you must do the job without Jesus what good in His suffering..

    You take my explanations of these symbols as being a flip flop of my position. They aren't.. I even said I know why you use them.. That doesn't change the FACT that these symbols have been used in Satanic rites.. I said and stand by the statement that I will use the cross and put away the use of anything that could be seen in a negative way.. Mormonism has turned from the Cross and puts these markings on their sacred buildings. Unlike mormonism I turn from every appearance of evil (1 These 5:22).. If you want to continue to engage in that appearance then do so just don't tell me you are a Bible believing Christian.. If you reject any of it (Found in the original language from the oldest manuscripts God has preserved for us) you are NOT a Christian..

    You are doing something that is very common among mormons here.. You are twisting my words.. I never said I tattooed my body.. I don't tattoo a church building when the Mark of my Lord in put in it.. I often wear a cross.. It is a great reminder to me that I am His that He bought me for a price I am His and not my own (1 Cor 6:19-20). I won't wear anything on me that doesn't bring Him glory.. There is no way that in my flesh I can 'choose the right'.. My only hope is in the Blood of Jesus and not by choosing the right doing the right or being in the right.. I leave that to those that belittle the saving power of Jesus.. IHS jim
    Last edited by James Banta; 01-07-2010 at 01:52 PM.

  13. #63
    nrajeff
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoedog View Post
    Where did I say Boy Scouts were satan worshipers?
    ---Here, in post 37:
    shoe: Start 'em young while they're weak.

    That figures, "We are committed to providing information and resources that Bishoprics and Young Men leaders may use for running effective Aaronic Priesthood Scouting Programs. We believe that effective Scouting programs can have a tremendous impact on the lives of our young men. We are especially conscious of the need to strengthen the programs for our older young men.

    President Gordon B. Hinckley has stated:
    "I love the Scouting movement. If every boy in America knew and observed the Scout Oath, we would do away with most of the jails and prisons in this country. This program builds boys, builds their futures, leads them on the right path so they can make something of their lives. Every man or woman who helps a boy along the road of life not only does a great thing for him but does a great thing for society as a whole." ..."
    You were expressing your belief that Scouting is satanic, because it uses inverted stars, and because the LDS church supports Scouting's ideals. Plus, you just said:
    Regardless, check the news re: Scout leaders and little boys...women scout leaders and their finances, etc.
    ---Using that terrible logic, if we Google "Evangelicals and pedophilia" or "Evangelicals and hookers" or "Evangelicals and embezzlement" and get any hits, it proves that Evangelicalism is SATANIC. Great logic there, Einstein.

  14. #64
    Senior Member Mesenja's Avatar
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    Eye of God




    The eyes of the Lord are on the righteous." (Psalms 34:15)

    The eyes of the Lord are in every place." (Proverbs 15:3)


    The Eye of God is a picture of an equilateral triangle with a single eye inside it and almost always with rays emanating from it. The eye represents the omnipresence and omniscience of God,who watches over all things The triangle is associated with the Trinity.




    The Supper of Emmaus painted in 1525 by Jacopo Pontormo.




    Sacred Heart Church;Lancaster,CA




    Aachen Cathedral;Aachen,Germany
    Last edited by Mesenja; 01-08-2010 at 12:21 PM.
    Heaven goes by favour;if it went by merit,you would stay out and your dog would go in. ~ Mark Twain

    Abba Xanthus said,"A dog is better than I am,For he has love and does not judge," The Sayings of the Desert Fathers

    "In order to really enjoy a dog,one doesn't merely try to train him to be semi human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." -- Edward Hoagland

  15. #65
    shoedog
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    Default those r LDS quotes

    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeff View Post
    ---Here, in post 37:


    You were expressing your belief that Scouting is satanic, because it uses inverted stars, and because the LDS church supports Scouting's ideals. Plus, you just said:


    ---Using that terrible logic, if we Google "Evangelicals and pedophilia" or "Evangelicals and hookers" or "Evangelicals and embezzlement" and get any hits, it proves that Evangelicalism is SATANIC. Great logic there, Einstein.
    LOL Jeff. I quoted LDS leaders. In other words I never said the Boy Scouts were satanic, right? sheesh shoe :0

  16. #66
    shoedog
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    Default Gr8 post. What about S. Hemisphere?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mesenja View Post
    Temple East Side:Melchizedek Priesthood

    Temple West Side : Aaronic Priesthood.

    Three Towers East:First Presidency

    Three Towers West:Presiding Bishopric

    Twelve Pinnacles East:Quorum of Twelve

    Twelve Pinnacles West:High Council

    Buds and Leaves:Rebirth and Resurrection

    Gold Moroni Statue:Moroni faces East denoting the place of residence for the true and living God of Israel (Hebrew- קדים qadiym east,east wind,east of direction,forward) Moroni returned on September 23,the day of the Jewish Feast known as “the Day of Trumpets” (Leviticus 23:24),with the keys of the Book of Mormon and the everlasting gospel to preach to all that dwell upon the earth (Joel 2:1).

    Alpha and Omega Scrolls East and West Windows & Pillars:They declare the names of God. The Alpha sign is found in the inlaid brick of the pillars of the temple and the Omega sign is found over every window. The scroll is a symbol of the word of God (Ezekiel 3:1-4),declaring that he is the “I Am” (Exodus 3 12-14) and the “Alpha” and “Omega”.

    The Big Dipper (Ursa Major):The seven (perfect) six-sided (fixed position) stars literally (from the alignment on the temple) point to the North Star (Stella Maris),a polar star for determining location. One can gain their bearings through the priesthood and can gain perfection as they observe the constant or polar star who is Jesus Christ.

    Stars:One hundred and eleven stars found on the Temple. Stars have always been a symbol for men. (Revelation 14:4;Isaiah 14:12-14;Genesis 22:17;1 Nephi 1:10-11,etc.)

    Five-pointed Upward Stars:Directly below the east center tower is a row of four upright stars,as well as three stars on each of the other two towers. These stars are not found on the west towers because the Aaronic Priesthood receives its light from the Melchizedek Priesthood. Represents men and women set upright before the Lord from their ‘natural’ state to pursue a righteous path into eternity in the house of the Lord (i.e. Temple).

    Inverted Stars:Represent the planet Venus or the ‘bright and morning star’ (Revelation 22:16). They are made to symbolize God,his relationship to man and his eternal nature.

    Cloud Stones:The cloud is a symbol of ‘the glory of the God’. (D&C 84:5) Israel saw the cloud as both dark and bright (Exodus 40:34-38). They are found atop of the East center tower. The North side cloud represents ‘billowy clouds’ or white and the South side cloud represents ‘storm clouds or black.

    Earth Stones:They are found on all four corners of the Temple and signify mankind and is declared to be ‘the footstool of God’ (D&C 38:17).

    Moon Stones:
    Israel was governed by the moon (Leviticus 23) with its first month being Abib or April (Exodus 12:2). There are fifty moon stones encompassing the Temple. They signify that God is one eternal round (D&C 3:2) and vertically in the sun-moon-earth signs are symbolic of Celestial-Terrestial-Telestial Kingdoms.

    Guardians of the Temple:Beside each East side door are the two niches bearing the bronze statues of Joseph and Hyrum Smith signifying that for this dispensation its two original presidents who were martyred for the cause (D&C 135) stand guard over the city of God like the priests did anciently over earthly cities. (2 Chronicles 8:14;Revelation 21:12) It is also symbolic of the guardian angels (1 Kings 6:32, 35) who watch over the Temple and the need for those who wish to enter the presence of the Lord to pass by the sentinels (D&C 132:18-19).

    Honey Bee or Deseret [Egyptian dsrt ] (Ether 2:3):There are twenty-four bee hives on the Temple. Orson Pratt stated that the honey bee is a type for the eternal nature of God and his plan;swarming out [hive] to fill eternities and procreate in greater number (Journal of Discourses,1:294).

    Golden Flowering Vines:
    The golden hinges of the temple doors are shaped like flowering vines signifying that Christ is ‘the True Vine’ (John 15:1-8),‘the Tree of Life’(1 Nephi 11:4-8),‘the Keeper of the Gate’(2 Nephi 9:41). The entire door has depictions of vines,branches,leaves, fruits,and beehives,which represents the garden of Eden. It is to signify that just as Adam and Eve exited Eden Garden and the Presence of the Lord so one must enter the same way.

    All-Seeing Eyes:They are found on the East and West sides of the Temple or the Front and the Back. The all-seeing eye is an ancient emblem and represents the omniscience of God (Proverbs 15:3) and His ability to discern the good and evil deeds of man. All worthy individuals who worship at the temple are ushered in into the presence of the Lord to be granted greater light and knowledge. The eye is always the right eye being symbol of covenants. What appears at first to be and eyelid is in reality the veil of the temple.

    Capstone:The capstone is the ball on which Moroni stands and is a symbol of completion or perfection.

    Handclasp:The clasping of right hands represent the ‘right hand of fellowship’ (Galatians 2:9),but that within the Temple it is symbolic of receiving a handclasp from the Lord and ‘take hold’ of the Him in His holy house (Isaiah 56:4-7).

    .
    Hey thanks Mesenja. I never heard from an LDS the explanation of LDS symbology.

    I am curious given your: "The Big Dipper (Ursa Major):The seven (perfect) six-sided (fixed position) stars literally (from the alignment on the temple) point to the North Star (Stella Maris),a polar star for determining location. One can gain their bearings through the priesthood and can gain perfection as they observe the constant or polar star who is Jesus Christ."

    What do LDS follow to gain their bearings in the Southern Hemishpere? The Southern Cross? thanks, shoe

  17. #67
    Senior Member Mesenja's Avatar
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    Default Don't be distracted

    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    You're right,the Church should be more concerned with what the world thinks,and should change every time the world's mores change.
    Shoedog is desperately trying to avoid the subject of this thread because he is failing miserably to show any connection between the symbols on some of our temples and their occult or even sinister Satanic origin.
    Heaven goes by favour;if it went by merit,you would stay out and your dog would go in. ~ Mark Twain

    Abba Xanthus said,"A dog is better than I am,For he has love and does not judge," The Sayings of the Desert Fathers

    "In order to really enjoy a dog,one doesn't merely try to train him to be semi human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." -- Edward Hoagland

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    Default LOL mes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mesenja View Post
    Shoedog is desperately trying to avoid the subject of this thread because he is failing miserably to show any connection between the symbols on some of our temples and their occult or even sinister Satanic origin.
    The connection has been made so often it's worth repeating. Change is good for the LDS. Mormon. So far, God has removed polygamy, racsim, throat slahing gestures in LDS temple ceremonies, Masonry, underwear more contemporary, communicating with the dead and other occult practices, etc. ... I wonder, what's next? Officailly declaring the Bom and Book of Abe inspired fiction since it's so historically flawed and inaccurate?

    Given the obvious history of LDS and the occult it's not a stretch to see the satanic influence on the idols and symbols adorning their temples. It's like religion to the symbols, idols, and greed if nothing else. lol shoe

  19. #69
    Senior Member Mesenja's Avatar
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    Default Honey Bee [Egyptian dsrt]



    The bee represents hard work,diligence,harmony,and order. The honey,the essence of the activity of the hive,is a symbol of Christ and the virginity of Mary. The honey has also become in Christian symbolism a sign of religious eloquence,assigned to saints like St. Ambrose and St. Bernard of Clairvaux. St. Ambrose compared the beehive to the church as a symbol of the pious and unified community,and the Christian to the ardently working bee,who never sleeps,always vigilant and constantly acquiring virtue,adding "honey" to the whole community. (Commentary on Dat Rosa Mel Apibus by John Eberly)
    Last edited by Mesenja; 01-07-2010 at 05:50 PM.
    Heaven goes by favour;if it went by merit,you would stay out and your dog would go in. ~ Mark Twain

    Abba Xanthus said,"A dog is better than I am,For he has love and does not judge," The Sayings of the Desert Fathers

    "In order to really enjoy a dog,one doesn't merely try to train him to be semi human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." -- Edward Hoagland

  20. #70
    nrajeff
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoedog View Post
    LOL Jeff. I quoted LDS leaders.
    ---Yes, you quoted them in some ridiculous attempt to support your belief that Scouting is satanic. News flash: If Scouting ISN'T satanic, then the fact that the LDS church supports Scouting is WORTHLESS as evidence that Scouting is satanic. I know this is high-school-level logic, but try to keep up.


    In other words I never said the Boy Scouts were satanic, right?
    ---Sure you did. You just did it in a cute, semi-ambiguous, Pharisaical way.

  21. #71
    nrajeff
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father_JD View Post
    More like an apt symbol for mindless drones in Mormonism, M.
    ---Now now, you shouldn't describe yourself (as you were for decades) that way.

  22. #72
    Senior Member MacG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesenja View Post
    Eye of God




    The eyes of the Lord are on the righteous." (Psalms 34:15)

    The eyes of the Lord are in every place." (Proverbs 15:3)

    The Eye of God is a picture of an equilateral triangle with a single eye inside it and almost always with rays emanating from it. The eye represents the omnipresence and omniscience of God,who watches over all things The triangle is associated with the Trinity.



    The Supper of Emmaus painted in 1525 by Jacopo Pontormo.



    Sacred Heart Church;Lancaster,CA



    Aachen Cathedral;Aachen,Germany
    Hey, where'd you get that first eye? That one isn't Mormon as it is the left eye.

    Thanks for your posts though,

    MacG
    "Said I'm not what I ought to be, but I'm better, better than I used to be, I'm gettin better all the time" - Blind Boys of Alabama Ephesians 4:22-24 NASB ..."that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth"

  23. #73
    Senior Member Mesenja's Avatar
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    Default The Honey Tongued Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by Mesenja View Post


    The bee represents hard work,diligence,harmony,and order. The honey,the essence of the activity of the hive,is a symbol of Christ and the virginity of Mary. The honey has also become in Christian symbolism a sign of religious eloquence,assigned to saints like St. Ambrose and St. Bernard of Clairvaux. St. Ambrose compared the beehive to the church as a symbol of the pious and unified community,and the Christian to the ardently working bee,who never sleeps,always vigilant and constantly acquiring virtue,adding "honey" to the whole community. (Commentary on Dat Rosa Mel Apibus by John Eberly)


    Saint Ambrose bishop of Milan b. 340 d. 397 He was nicknamed The Honey Tongued Doctor.
    Heaven goes by favour;if it went by merit,you would stay out and your dog would go in. ~ Mark Twain

    Abba Xanthus said,"A dog is better than I am,For he has love and does not judge," The Sayings of the Desert Fathers

    "In order to really enjoy a dog,one doesn't merely try to train him to be semi human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." -- Edward Hoagland

  24. #74
    nrajeff
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    Interesting lessons from the History of Christianity, Mesenja. Thanks for sharing it.

  25. #75
    Senior Member Mesenja's Avatar
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    Default A Symbol of the Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Mesenja View Post



    Saint Ambrose bishop of Milan b. 340 d. 397 He was nicknamed The Honey Tongued Doctor.

    "The bee is more honored than other animals,not because it labors, but because it labors for others." (St. John Chrysostom 12th Homily)





    In the columns of the Altar of the Confession in St. Peter's Basilica one finds bees among the leaves and flowers.
    Heaven goes by favour;if it went by merit,you would stay out and your dog would go in. ~ Mark Twain

    Abba Xanthus said,"A dog is better than I am,For he has love and does not judge," The Sayings of the Desert Fathers

    "In order to really enjoy a dog,one doesn't merely try to train him to be semi human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." -- Edward Hoagland

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