Picture Proof:Satanic pentagrams on German church

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

Interesting lessons from the History of Christianity,Mesenja. Thanks for sharing it.

These are quotes taken from "The Bee,A Symbol of the Church by Catherine Croisette. Here the symbolism of the bee is obviously taken from a Catholic perspective. However to make the quip like Father _JD did to me that the bee is "More like an apt symbol for mindless drones in Mormonism,Mesenja" either shows ignorance on his part or a knee **** negative reaction to anything dealing with the Latter-day Saints. You take your pick NRA_Jeff. And they say that we are mindless drones in a cult.

I later found a text of St. John Chrysostom in which he in some way confirmed that explanation when he wrote:"The bee is more honored than other animals,not because it labors,but because it labors for others" (12th Homily). So,I realized that the bees,like the clergy and religious men and women in the Church,work unceasingly for the common good of the hive and obey without question their superiors,and above all their queen.

The bee is also a symbol of wisdom,for it collects nectar from many flowers and turns it into nourishing and pleasing honey,which is the 'gold' of bees.

As the Church gives grace through the purity of her divine Sacraments,so the bees give us honey and wax by the labor of their pure bodies. This is why their wax,considered the fruit of a virgin labor,is worthy to burn in the candles on the altar at the offering of the Holy Sacrifice.

The honey,so agreeable to the palate,is symbolic of spiritual sweetness and religious eloquence. For this reason,the beehive is emblematic of St. Ambrose and of St. Bernard of Clairvaux,two Doctors whom the Church calls mellifluus and mellificuus,that is,with an eloquence as suave and “sweet as honey.”

Like charitable Catholics,bees produce good works for their neighbor at all times by pollinating the plants for food,beauty and air quality,so necessary for the survival of others.

They [the bees] are instantly and vigorously militant against enemies of the hive. Not only the hive,but the honey,upon which their lives depend,is also vigorously protected.This is a marvelous and unique natural phenomenon that signifies other marvelous and unique phenomena of the Catholic Church:her militant members,her apologists and her martyrs. They gave their lives for the good of the Church,and their blood became the seed for vibrant growth,as happened many times in History.

The bees’ survival depends upon a queen and their unquestioning obedience and loyalty to her,just as we are all absolutely dependent upon Our Lady,the Queen of Heaven,for our eternal salvation and our protection from the world,the flesh and the devil.

Bees observe such a tremendous reverence for their authority that none dare leave the hive to swarm in other pastures unless the queen has gone forth in front of them and claimed the first rank of flight for herself. The ever-vigilant bees guard their queen and hive - as we should guard Our Queen and our Church - to the ultimate price, and instinctively consider it a duty to die for them.

Finally,perhaps you noticed,the natural beehive is shaped similarly to a traditional Tabernacle!

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by MacG

Hey,where'd you get that first eye? That one isn't Mormon as it is the left eye.

Thanks for your posts though,MacG

I did not notice that the first image is a depiction of the left eye. Thanks for pointing that out to me. By the way you are welcome.

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---Yes, you quoted them in some ridiculous attempt to support your belief that Scouting is satanic. News flash:If Scouting ISN'T satanic,then the fact that the LDS church supports Scouting is WORTHLESS as evidence that Scouting is satanic. I know this is high-school-level logic,but try to keep up.

Boy Scouts use the pentagram,have secret handshakes & swear oaths just like satanists. Therefore the only conclusion that one can come to is crystal clear. Boy Scouts are satanists. Once again Shoedog has used impeccable logic and presented irrefutable proof to courageously tell us this sobering truth.

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

Boy Scouts use the pentagram,have secret hand shakes & swear oaths just like satanists. Therefore the only conclusion one can come to is crystal clear. Boy Scouts are satanists. Once again Shoedog has used impeccable logic and irrefutable proof to courageously tell us this sobering truth.

Illuminati Hand Signs and Handshakes-Ron Paul

[Mesenja]

The pentagram was a religious symbol that was used by medieval Christians in representing the five wounds of Christ. The triangle symbolized the holy Trinity and was representative of the 3 beings of the Godhead plus the two natures of Christ. The church eventually chose the cross as a symbol for Christianity,and the use of the pentagram as a Christian symbol gradually ceased.

St. Mary's Church;Adderbury,Oxfordshire,England

Amongst the Hebrews,the symbol was ascribed to Truth and to the five books of the Pentateuch.It was also the seal of the city of Jerusalem.





The first time the pentagram was ever ***ociated with the occult was in the mid 19th century when a French magician Eliphas Levi mistakenly claimed that the inverted pentagram was a symbol for the goat god Baphomet. It was only in the late 20th century that the Church of Satan decided to use it for themselves.





On Mormon temples the pentagram point-down represents Christ’s descent to earth. Point-up,it represents Christ’s ascent to heaven. The adaptation of the pentagram into a Satanic symbol is a modern invention. This ***ociation was not known at the time when Joseph Smith was alive.

[shoedog]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

Illuminati Hand Signs and Handshakes-Ron Paul

shoe: I was just taking NRAjeff's word for it, my bad. Further proof you can't trust what LDS Mormons say?

Lookee here: http://www.waltermartin.com//forums/...45311#poststop

NRAjeff: "Hey, everybody, get yer torches and pitchforks---it's time to tear down the biggest user of Satanic symbols--The Boy Scouts of America!

http://wikicompany.org/wiki/images/t...Boy_Scouts.jpg


And check out the flag of the Order of New Templars, a secret society in Austria founded by Lanz von Liebenfels.

http://wikicompany.org/wiki/images/t...w_templars.gif


It uses the CROSS and the SWASTIKA. "Proving" that any church that uses the sign of the cross, is secretly a Nazi cult...according to extremist Evangelical reasoning. Right?"

shoe: Any attempt to try to discredit my integrity and honesty should first be compared to your own... or once again, you simply look silly. Praying for you LDS, sheesh. God help them, shoe

[Mesenja]

I know from his posts that it appears that he is not the sharpest crayon in the pencil box however can he not understand sarcasm?

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---Yes, you quoted them in some ridiculous attempt to support your belief that Scouting is satanic. News flash:If Scouting ISN'T satanic,then the fact that the LDS church supports Scouting is WORTHLESS as evidence that Scouting is satanic. I know this is high-school-level logic,but try to keep up.

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---Sure you did. You just did it in a cute, semi-ambiguous, Pharisaical way.

Originally Posted by shoedog

Shoedog:I was just taking NRAjeff's word for it,my bad. Further proof you can't trust what LDS Mormons say?

Lookee here:NraJeff Hey,everybody,get yer... 01-05-2010,02:29 PM

Originally Posted by nrajeff

"Hey,everybody,get yer torches and pitchforks---it's time to tear down the biggest user of Satanic symbols--The Boy Scouts of America!

Originally Posted by nrajeff

Check out the flag of the Order of New Templars, a secret society in Austria founded by Lanz von Liebenfels.



It uses the CROSS and the SWASTIKA. "Proving" that any church that uses the sign of the cross, is secretly a Nazi cult...according to extremist Evangelical reasoning. Right?"

Originally Posted by shoedog

Shoedog:Any attempt to try to discredit my integrity and honesty should first be compared to your own... or once again,you simply look silly. Praying for you LDS,sheesh. God help them,Shoedog

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

Temple East Side:Melchizedek Priesthood

Temple West Side : Aaronic Priesthood.

Three Towers East:First Presidency

Three Towers West:Presiding Bishopric

Twelve Pinnacles East:Quorum of Twelve

Twelve Pinnacles West:High Council

Buds and Leaves:Rebirth and Resurrection

Gold Moroni Statue:Moroni faces East denoting the place of residence for the true and living God of Israel (Hebrew- קדים qadiym east,east wind,east of direction,forward) Moroni returned on September 23,the day of the Jewish Feast known as “the Day of Trumpets” (Leviticus 23:24),with the keys of the Book of Mormon and the everlasting gospel to preach to all that dwell upon the earth (Joel 2:1).

Alpha and Omega Scrolls East and West Windows & Pillars:They declare the names of God. The Alpha sign is found in the inlaid brick of the pillars of the temple and the Omega sign is found over every window. The scroll is a symbol of the word of God (Ezekiel 3:1-4),declaring that he is the “I Am” (Exodus 3 12-14) and the “Alpha” and “Omega”.

The Big Dipper (Ursa Major):The seven (perfect) six-sided (fixed position) stars literally (from the alignment on the temple) point to the North Star (Stella Maris),a polar star for determining location. One can gain their bearings through the priesthood and can gain perfection as they observe the constant or polar star who is Jesus Christ.

Stars:One hundred and eleven stars found on the Temple. Stars have always been a symbol for men. (Revelation 14:4;Isaiah 14:12-14;Genesis 22:17;1 Nephi 1:10-11,etc.)

Five-pointed Upward Stars:Directly below the east center tower is a row of four upright stars,as well as three stars on each of the other two towers. These stars are not found on the west towers because the Aaronic Priesthood receives its light from the Melchizedek Priesthood. Represents men and women set upright before the Lord from their ‘natural’ state to pursue a righteous path into eternity in the house of the Lord (i.e. Temple).

Inverted Stars:Represent the planet Venus or the ‘bright and morning star’ (Revelation 22:16). They are made to symbolize God,his relationship to man and his eternal nature.

Cloud Stones:The cloud is a symbol of ‘the glory of the God’. (D&C 84:5) Israel saw the cloud as both dark and bright (Exodus 40:34-38). They are found atop of the East center tower. The North side cloud represents ‘billowy clouds’ or white and the South side cloud represents ‘storm clouds or black.

Earth Stones:They are found on all four corners of the Temple and signify mankind and is declared to be ‘the footstool of God’ (D&C 38:17).

Moon Stones: Israel was governed by the moon (Leviticus 23) with its first month being Abib or April (Exodus 12:2). There are fifty moon stones encomp***ing the Temple. They signify that God is one eternal round (D&C 3:2) and vertically in the sun-moon-earth signs are symbolic of Celestial-Terrestial-Telestial Kingdoms.

Guardians of the Temple:Beside each East side door are the two niches bearing the bronze statues of Joseph and Hyrum Smith signifying that for this dispensation its two original presidents who were martyred for the cause (D&C 135) stand guard over the city of God like the priests did anciently over earthly cities. (2 Chronicles 8:14;Revelation 21:12) It is also symbolic of the guardian angels (1 Kings 6:32, 35) who watch over the Temple and the need for those who wish to enter the presence of the Lord to p*** by the sentinels (D&C 132:18-19).

Honey Bee or Deseret [Egyptian dsrt ] (Ether 2:3):There are twenty-four bee hives on the Temple. Orson Pratt stated that the honey bee is a type for the eternal nature of God and his plan;swarming out [hive] to fill eternities and procreate in greater number (Journal of Discourses,1:294).

Golden Flowering Vines:The golden hinges of the temple doors are shaped like flowering vines signifying that Christ is ‘the True Vine’ (John 15:1-8),‘the Tree of Life’(1 Nephi 11:4-8),‘the Keeper of the Gate’(2 Nephi 9:41). The entire door has depictions of vines,branches,leaves, fruits,and beehives,which represents the garden of Eden. It is to signify that just as Adam and Eve exited Eden Garden and the Presence of the Lord so one must enter the same way.

All-Seeing Eyes:They are found on the East and West sides of the Temple or the Front and the Back. The all-seeing eye is an ancient emblem and represents the omniscience of God (Proverbs 15:3) and His ability to discern the good and evil deeds of man. All worthy individuals who worship at the temple are ushered in into the presence of the Lord to be granted greater light and knowledge. The eye is always the right eye being symbol of covenants. What appears at first to be and eyelid is in reality the veil of the temple.

Capstone:The capstone is the ball on which Moroni stands and is a symbol of completion or perfection.

Handclasp:The clasping of right hands represent the ‘right hand of fellowship’ (Galatians 2:9),but that within the Temple it is symbolic of receiving a handclasp from the Lord and ‘take hold’ of the Him in His holy house (Isaiah 56:4-7).

Mind if I get a reference for your references to reference others for references?

...or something like that.

Cl*** starts next week. :-)

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

[/COLOR]Boy Scouts use the pentagram,have secret handshakes & swear oaths just like satanists. Therefore the only conclusion that one can come to is crystal clear. Boy Scouts are satanists. Once again Shoedog has used impeccable logic and presented irrefutable proof to courageously tell us this sobering truth.

---Yup, maybe he's a graduate of Westboro Baptist's School of Conspiracy Theories

[Mesenja]

I have you on permanent ignore. Can you figure out what that means Russ?

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

I know from his posts that it appears that he is not the sharpest crayon in the pencil box however can he not understand sarcasm?

---Who knows? But I TRIED to make it clear that it was a conclusion that could be reached according to extremist Evangelical reasoning. Maybe when I used the words

according to extremist Evangelical reasoning

it was not plain enough?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---Yup, maybe he's a graduate of Westboro Baptist's School of Conspiracy Theories

But there is no maybe about mormonism it is an evil antichristian cult..
Now that we have the name calling out of the way. Maybe we can try to understand each other on these symbols.. Yes they are used in Satanic ritual. Yes it would be better if the Church would have just abandon them.. But there will be some of these marks of architecture that is several hundred years old.

It is quite clear from the Bible that the cross is a symbol used extensively by the Church..
Matt 10:38, Matt 16:24, Mark 8:34, Mark 10:21, Luke 9:23, Luke 14:27
1 Cor 1:17-18, Gal 5:11, Gal 6:12,14, Eph 2:16, Phil 2:8, Col 1:20
Col 2:14, Heb 12:2..
Against which the pentagram has the following references (ZERO)..
Yes there are some references for it being used by the Church as I have already shown on this thread but it is the Cross that Church must take up and follow Jesus, not the pentagram or the hexagram.. IHS jim

[shoedog]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---Who knows? But I TRIED to make it clear that it was a conclusion that could be reached according to extremist Evangelical reasoning. Maybe when I used the words



it was not plain enough?

I ***umed you two always told the truth like well, Jesus would do. No? Now THAT was sarcasm. Sheesh. LOL you guys crack me up. Hey y'all, is they any there any credible LDS Mormons out der fer us ignirint tipes? shoe LOL

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

I have you on permanent ignore. Can you figure out what that means Russ?

Aw, shucks. I guess that means I'll just have to Google your quotes.

Oughta take about 2 minutes, I guess.

Thought ya might wanna talk about it.

[shoedog]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

I have you on permanent ignore. Can you figure out what that means Russ?

I guess it means you keep replying to his comments? sheesh, who knows what you mean. shoe

[Mesenja]

From his posts he must believe in the mythology that our taking control of the Boy Scouts and turning it into a satanic cult is a sign that either the arrival of Satan to take over the world or that the endtimes is about to appear.

Originally Posted by nrajeff

...and Shoe is on record as being in the Conspiracy Theory of the Month Club. Every month, you will be sent a new conspiracy theory to examine. If you decide to swallow...er, keep it, you will be billed in many easy payments....

This month's theory:That the Boy Scouts of America is really an evil, satanic cult that is working against the USA and against Christianity. Newest subscriber: Shoe D. Og.

I guess that he would like us to take out a subscription to the Conspiracy Theory of the Month Club. Either that or he can't see the obvious. You take your pick Jeff.

[Mesenja]

You have given absolutely no proof that the symbols that adorn some of our temples are occultic or even Satanic in nature.

Originally Posted by shoedog

The connection has been made so often it's worth repeating. Change is good for the LDS. Mormon. So far,God has removed polygamy,racsim,throat slahing gestures in LDS temple ceremonies,Masonry,underwear more contemporary,communicating with the dead and other occult practices,etc. ... I wonder,what's next? Officailly declaring the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham inspired fiction since it's so historically flawed and inaccurate? Given the obvious history of LDS and the occult it's not a stretch to see the satanic influence on the idols and symbols adorning their temples. It's like religion to the symbols, idols, and greed if nothing else. LOL Shoedog

[Mesenja]

First you said that Masons used the pentagram as a part of their secret ceremony and many of them have the same design on their aprons.

Originally Posted by James Banta

Are you saying that I am wrong and you see them the say way that they do as a mystic part of their secret ceremony? Many of them have that same design on their aprons. IHS Jim

Then when you are pressed to provide any evidence of your claim you back down and ask me if it makes any difference.

Originally Posted by James Banta

I worked with a Mason that told me that. I have no proof.. Does it make that much difference? You just admitted that the repersentation fills their lodges.. IHS Jim

What I said was that the use of a pentagram or five-pointed star in some Grand Lodge seals and banners as well as on the collar of office worn by the Masters of lodges and Grand Masters of Grand Lodges is strictly ornamental in nature. Once again you are proven wrong.

[shoedog]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

You have given absolutely no proof that the symbols that adorn some of our temples are occultic or even Satanic in nature.

Actually according to you if I recall correctly, the upside down pentagram IS a satanic symbol. True? Maybe it was another TBM. Regardless, given the LDS Mormon connection and communication with ghosts and the dead, occult and/or Masonic ritual in temple ceremonies, fictional canon like BoM or Book of Abe, etc. it only follows the spirit behind the doctrines and symbols of LDS mormonism is at least in part satanic IMHO.

Frankly, what you believe as LDSism is NOT what Joseph Smith, et al taught. LDS are slowly bowing to common sense and scripture by slowly ridding themselves of goofy doctrine and symbols... like changing the priestly underwear generationally as well as temple rituals. Sounds deceptive to me... and who is the father of untruth, of lies? So LDS are deceived by the panteistic and occultic symbols.

shoe

[nrajeff]

I guess that he would like us to take out a subscription to the Conspiracy Theory of the Month Club. Either that or he can't see the obvious. You take your pick Jeff.

My best guess is that he has realized that his logic was a huge non sequitur or post hoc ergo propter hoc (or "correlation, ergo causation") fallacy, and that he is now trying to run from taking responsibility for it. It was amusing to see him even try the "Both the Scouts and the satanists use star symbols, therefore Scouts are satanists" fallacy.

[nrajeff]

If you really have jumped on the "You need to prove a negative, otherwise you lose" bandwagon, then go ahead and prove that the adoption of the cruciform by Christianity was NOT derived from the Egyptian ankh.

[Mesenja]

What I said was that a French magician Eliphas Levi mistakenly claimed that the inverted pentagram was a symbol for the goat god Baphomet. It was only in the late 20th century that the Church of Satan decided to use it for themselves.

On Mormon temples the pentagram point-down represents Christ’s descent to earth. Point-up,it represents Christ’s ascent to heaven. The adaptation of the pentagram into a Satanic symbol is a modern invention. This ***ociation was not known at the time when Joseph Smith was alive.

Originally Posted by shoedog

Actually according to you if I recall correctly,the upside down pentagram IS a satanic symbol. True? Maybe it was another TBM. Regardless,given the LDS Mormon connection and communication with ghosts and the dead, occult and/or Masonic ritual in temple ceremonies,fictional canon like Book of Mormon or Book of Abraham,etc. it only follows the spirit behind the doctrines and symbols of Latter-day Saint Mormonism is at least in part satanic IMHO.

Chanting this nonsensical accusation that the upside down pentagram has some sort of occultic or even satanic connection will not make it true. The inverted five-pointed star had a sacred meaning among the ancient Christians and it also has a sacred meaning among the Latter-day Saints.

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

If you really have jumped on the "You need to prove a negative, otherwise you lose" bandwagon, then go ahead and prove that the adoption of the cruciform by Christianity was NOT derived from the Egyptian ankh.

Hey, the cross was a Roman torture device. And it was used many (thousands?) of times during Roman times and used by many other groups before and after the Romans. Would that make it a Satanic device?

Marvin

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

If you really have jumped on the "You need to prove a negative,otherwise you lose" bandwagon,then go ahead and prove that the adoption of the cruciform by Christianity was NOT derived from the Egyptian ankh.

Here are some more symbols that were adopted by Christians with pagan origins.

1. Wedding Ring

The binding use of the ring for betrothal ceremonies originated in the pagan supers***ion of a man tying cords around the waist,wrists and ankles of the woman he had fallen in love with,to make sure that her spirit would be held under his control.

And there are many legends about the magic powers of finger rings. According to a popular legend,King Solomon had a ring that transported him every day at noon into the celestial sphere,where he heard the secrets of the universe. Another legend claims that Solomon had his ring set with precious stones and used it as a magic mirror in which he was able to see the reflected image of any place or person he wished. Solomon’s ring was later found and used by Jewish exorcists to drag demons out through the noses of sick people.

Until the seventeenth century astrological finger rings were very popular. These rings developed out of the belief it was important to wear rings formed of the gems and metals ***igned to each of the seven planetary gods.

There are also many stories about the healing power of finger rings. The Greek physician Galen wrote of the Egyptian king’s use of curative rings. Edward the Confessor,king of England supposedly gave a pilgrim a ring in lieu of money. The pilgrim was the the Apostle John in disguise,who returned the ring to the king,saying that he had blessed it and had given it curative powers. From that time on, up to the reign of Queen Mary I in the 16th century,on Good Friday,English kings and queens blessed and distributed rings held to be a cure for the ‘falling sickness’ (epilepsy).

2. Blessings

The word blessing comes from the term blessen,which developed from the Old English blaedsian (preserved in the Northumbrian dialect around 950 AD). It also appears in other forms,such as bledsian (before 830) and derived from Proto-Germanic word blothisojan (around 725 ),and blesian (from around 1000),all meaning to mark with blood. An ancient Pagan ritual was to make sacred or holy by a sacrificial custom in the Anglo-Saxon pagan period,originating in Germanic paganism;by making a mark with blood as a sign of sincerity.

3. Christian Fish ('The Jesus Fish')

Ichthys (Greek:ἰχθύς,capitalized ΙΧΘΥΣ or ΙΧΘΥC),was the ancient and cl***ical word for "fish." The ichthys was adopted by early Christian as a secret symbol now known colloquially as the "sign of the fish" or the "Jesus fish." The fish symbol was used to mark meeting places and tombs,or to distinguish friends from foes.

In Babylonian mythology,Ichthys was the son of Atargatis the mermaid and fertility goddess of the seas. To the Babylonians the 'fish symbol' was a representation of sexuality and fertility.

The fish symbol was used by neo-pagan as a religious symbol ***ociated with the Great Mother Goddess. It was the outline of her womb. Often the image was drawn by overlapping two very thin crescent moons.

If we follow the same twisted logic of Shoe_dog that he uses on the origins and significance of symbols on our temples to Christian symbology then it's nonsensical conclusion would be that these are "evil" symbols and occultic or even Satanic in nature. Maybe Shoe_dog needs to write out on a blackboard a 100 times the sentence "The meaning of symbols can only be defined by the person or group using it."

[Russ]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

My best guess is that he has realized that his logic was a huge non sequitur or post hoc ergo propter hoc (or "correlation, ergo causation") fallacy, and that he is now trying to run from taking responsibility for it. It was amusing to see him even try the "Both the Scouts and the satanists use star symbols, therefore Scouts are satanists" fallacy.

Symbolism is important in every society and every religion.

What's important to Mormons is displayed on its temples.

The most amazing thing is not what's displayed (although that is amazing in itself), but rather what's MISSING.

No crosses.

The cross is foolishness to those who are perishing.