Is God unable to create in kind?

[Radix]

Originally Posted by stemelbow

A self-existent God is actually beyond the comprehension of anyone from what I've seen, not just LDS. Most a believer in a "self existent" God does not recognize that believing in such believes in a God who is the author of all evil, as logic would dictate. Its either, believing in a self-existent God requires upon such an one to be the source of all evil, or to believe in a self existent God is to throw logic and reason out the window. Either way, the question of the OP exposes the silliness of mainstreamism.

love,
stem

Loving stem, God has given all of us some degree of choice. Including angels. The kind of god you propose is nothing more than a computer programmer. That is a god who is not looking for love, but strictly for obedience to build up himself. Love does not come from a set program. The evil comes from the decisions of men and angels.

Death came about because of sin. Now one goofy thing here is that LDS believe that their god wanted Adam to sin. So on one hand you tell us you cannot believe in a self existent god because of sin and evil, yet you believe in a god who commanded Adam to sin. Sadly you are the one who accuses us of throwing all logic out the window.

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Radix

Loving stem, God has given all of us some degree of choice. Including angels.

---That is not what some of your C-A-R-M (typing it slowly to prevent letter mixups) have said. They have said that if a person has any choice in choosing his destiny, then it would take away God's absolute sovereignty. What if God predestinated Person A for hell, but Person A chose to believe in TULIP - Trinitarianism? That person would end up saved, which would undermine God's decision to send him to hell. That's why your buds say that NO ONE is able to choose "the Jesus of the Bible" on their own--no one is able to even DESIRE to believe in Jesus--unless God "invades" or "indwells" and saves that person FIRST, after which the person wants to believe, and ends up believing, repenting, and ends up obeying God's commandments. Your buds have also said that if a person has been pre-fated for eternity in hell, there is NOTHING that person can do to change that fate. NOTHING. If your lotto number didn't get put into the Powerball barrel back when the lottery was being rigged, er, created, then your number has NO chance of being drawn out with all the other winners. Ever. You had no chance and there is nothing you can do about it. It's not as if you can go back in time and sneak your number into the barrel. You were a pre-determined LOSER. And for those lucky enough to have had THEIR numbers put into the winners' barrel, there is NOTHING they can do to mess that up and go to hell. It's IMPOSSIBLE for them to go OFF the path that leads to eternal life. They have no choice in the matter, there is no choice they could make that would send the pre-saved to hell. That is TULIP/Sovereignty/Predestination in a nutshell.

The kind of god you propose is nothing more than a computer programmer. That is a god who is not looking for love, but strictly for obedience to build up himself.

--What? The god you described is not what LDS believe. It's what modern TULIP/Sovereignty/Predestination teaches. If God created YOU, and YOU were born with the guilt of original sin IN YOUR DNA--which GUARANTEES that you WILL sin and rebel against God and do nothing that is good, no not one---then it's the God of TULIP/Sovereignty/Predestination who is the programmer. Time once again for my "Hasbro Evil Robot Kit" parable...

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---That is not what some of your C-A-R-M (typing it slowly to prevent letter mixups) have said. They have said that if a person has any choice in choosing his destiny, then it would take away God's absolute sovereignty. What if God predestinated Person A for hell, but Person A chose to believe in TULIP - Trinitarianism? That person would end up saved, which would undermine God's decision to send him to hell. That's why your buds say that NO ONE is able to choose "the Jesus of the Bible" on their own--no one is able to even DESIRE to believe in Jesus--unless God "invades" or "indwells" and saves that person FIRST, after which the person wants to believe, and ends up believing, repenting, and ends up obeying God's commandments. Your buds have also said that if a person has been pre-fated for eternity in hell, there is NOTHING that person can do to change that fate. NOTHING. If your lotto number didn't get put into the Powerball barrel back when the lottery was being rigged, er, created, then your number has NO chance of being drawn out with all the other winners. Ever. You had no chance and there is nothing you can do about it. It's not as if you can go back in time and sneak your number into the barrel. You were a pre-determined LOSER. And for those lucky enough to have had THEIR numbers put into the winners' barrel, there is NOTHING they can do to mess that up and go to hell. It's IMPOSSIBLE for them to go OFF the path that leads to eternal life. They have no choice in the matter, there is no choice they could make that would send the pre-saved to hell. That is TULIP/Sovereignty/Predestination in a nutshell.


--What? The god you described is not what LDS believe. It's what modern TULIP/Sovereignty/Predestination teaches. If God created YOU, and YOU were born with the guilt of original sin IN YOUR DNA--which GUARANTEES that you WILL sin and rebel against God and do nothing that is good, no not one---then it's the God of TULIP/Sovereignty/Predestination who is the programmer. Time once again for my "Hasbro Evil Robot Kit" parable...

I don't believe that you are representing what the Christians on CARM believe in anything point of doctrine.. You twist my words here so I KNOW you do the same thing to those at CARM. You can't even understand TULIP though it has been clearly explained to you.. You can't believe God that ALL have sinned so I can't believe you that many that have existed are pure and sin free.. What you teach doesn't align with the scripture.. It is exactly what Smith taught.. You show that you are wiling to believe a man while you reject the teaching of the Holy Spirit He gave us in the Bible.. This is NOT the signs of being a child of God, a Christian.. IHS jim

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I don't believe that you are representing what the Christians on CARM believe in anything point of doctrine.. You twist my words here so I KNOW you do the same thing to those at CARM.

---Are you calling me a liar, Jim? Here is some logic for you: If I DISAGREE with what I say your buddies have said, but YOU say that your buddies never said such a thing, then it could mean that your buddies and I actually AGREE. Are you willing to accuse your buddies of agreeing with an LDS?

You can't even understand TULIP

---Can YOU understand it? Can YOU make sense of it? Because your buddies often end up essentially admitting that it's a "mystery, who are you to question it, God's ways are higher than our ways, etc."

though it has been clearly explained to you..

---LOL. Did you even READ Mesenja's post? Did you read Spurgeon's sermon?
It's been said that modern Calvinism (neo-Calvinism?) is so foreign to previous Christian doctrine that even John Calvin would have problems with it. And yet you want to DEFEND it? Why?

You can't believe God that ALL have sinned

---What I can't believe is that GOD ever SAID that all people, including fetuses that die before birth, HAVE sinned. Can you prove that GOD ever said such a thing? I can find where PAUL wrote something to the ROMAN SAINTS, but last I checked, Paul was not God, and Paul was not even QUOTING God.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---What I can't believe is that GOD ever SAID that all people, including fetuses that die before birth, HAVE sinned. Can you prove that GOD ever said such a thing? I can find where PAUL wrote something to the ROMAN SAINTS, but last I checked, Paul was not God, and Paul was not even QUOTING God.

Jeff, this is the doctrine of "inherited sin"--Adam's sin was imputed to mankind and thus we are considered sinful even without breaking any law (see verse 13 below). But the fact is that we do sin, everyone of us, everyday. We have an inherited sin nature--we sin because of this nature. However sin and accountability are not the same, as we have previously discussed. A child can sin but may not be accountable for that sin.

Romans 5 (NIV)
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned
13for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
14Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.


Also notice David in this Psalm talks about HIS sins and verse 5 states, "I was brought forth in iniquity" and in context this is speaking about himself, not his mother which some like to incorrectly conclude.
Psalm 51 (ESV)
1 Have mercy on me, O God,
according to your steadfast love;
according to your abundant mercy
blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity,
and cleanse me from my sin!
3 For I know my transgressions,
and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against you, you only, have I sinned
and done what is evil in your sight,
so that you may be justified in your words
and blameless in your judgment.
5Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
and in sin did my mother conceive me.

From the ESV Study Bible notes
"Ps. 51:5 I was brought forth (that is, from the womb) in iniquity. David thinks of himself as a sinful person from the time of his birth. in sin did my mother conceive me. The idea is not that the act of conception was itself sinful, but (as the parallel first line shows) that each worshiper learns to trace his sinful tendencies to the very beginning of his existence—not only from birth but even from before that, to conception."

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by stemelbow

JD attempted this, trying to bring down the LDS beliefs with his own-game too.

"Attempt"?? I succeeded, stemmy. Why you can't see the obvious is beyond me!

Let's consider your point for a sec...if God to LDS "took Satan's intelligences and formed him into a spirtual child knowing full well how he would turn out" then how can one force upon God the conception of all of Satan's evil deeds and designs?

Because IF your Mormo-deity IS OMNISCIENT (which in reality you DENY, although you're still trying to affirm that he is), he KNEW ALL OF HIS LITTLE SPIRIT CHIL'S FUTURE ACTIONS..."EVIL DEEDS AND DESIGNS"...So, stem, does the Mormo-deity possess OMNISCIENCE or NOT???

You're basically saying he does NOT!!

It seems you are attempting to force LDS to arrive at a conclusion what "intelligences" are exactly and how they formed our spirits--neither of which is conclusively known by LDS.

Irrelevant, stemster. But IF your Mormo-god is really OMNISCIENT, he couldn't help but KNOW ALL OF LUCIFER'S FUTURE EVIL DEEDS AND ACTIONS. Again, stem...WHY can't you see this?

The second problem with your attempt to bring LDS beliefs down with your own (a logical fallacy) is that to LDS Lucifer's rebellion was a repeat or copy of previous rebellions and evils already practiced through eternity. Seeing as they were done for eternity past, your attempted implied conclusion doesn't hold since God to LDS did not conceive of the evils that were practiced for eternity past already.

Stem, stem, stem. You just DENIED that Mormo-god is "omniscient". All mormo-god can do is GUESS what Lucifer would do BASED UPON "PREVIOUS REBELLIONS AND EVILS ALREADY PRACTICED THROUGH ETERNITY. Therefore, Mormo-god does NOT POSSESS OMNISCIENCE, NOR ANY KIND OF FOREKNOWLEDGE. You denied it, dude. THINK, stem. Please THINK!!

The third problem you face with your attempt to bring down LDS beliefs with your own is that doing such does not address the problems your belief system has. Its deflection, which most a mainstreamer resorts to when confronted with challenges of his/her faith.

love,
stem

LOL. Well, stemmy, you still don't get it, do you??

[Radix]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---That is not what some of your C-A-R-M (typing it slowly to prevent letter mixups) have said. They have said that if a person has any choice in choosing his destiny, then it would take away God's absolute sovereignty. What if God predestinated Person A for hell, but Person A chose to believe in TULIP - Trinitarianism? That person would end up saved, which would undermine God's decision to send him to hell. That's why your buds say that NO ONE is able to choose "the Jesus of the Bible" on their own--no one is able to even DESIRE to believe in Jesus--unless God "invades" or "indwells" and saves that person FIRST, after which the person wants to believe, and ends up believing, repenting, and ends up obeying God's commandments. Your buds have also said that if a person has been pre-fated for eternity in hell, there is NOTHING that person can do to change that fate. NOTHING. If your lotto number didn't get put into the Powerball barrel back when the lottery was being rigged, er, created, then your number has NO chance of being drawn out with all the other winners. Ever. You had no chance and there is nothing you can do about it. It's not as if you can go back in time and sneak your number into the barrel. You were a pre-determined LOSER. And for those lucky enough to have had THEIR numbers put into the winners' barrel, there is NOTHING they can do to mess that up and go to hell. It's IMPOSSIBLE for them to go OFF the path that leads to eternal life. They have no choice in the matter, there is no choice they could make that would send the pre-saved to hell. That is TULIP/Sovereignty/Predestination in a nutshell.


--What? The god you described is not what LDS believe. It's what modern TULIP/Sovereignty/Predestination teaches. If God created YOU, and YOU were born with the guilt of original sin IN YOUR DNA--which GUARANTEES that you WILL sin and rebel against God and do nothing that is good, no not one---then it's the God of TULIP/Sovereignty/Predestination who is the programmer. Time once again for my "Hasbro Evil Robot Kit" parable...

As expected. Nothing here addresses anything I said. Jeff once again is talking to hear his own ears roar. When you want to be a big boy and engage in a discussion, let me know. Otherwise, when even respond? Maybe its just your LDS programming. Do not actual deal with what has been brought up, do not use your own mind to discuss issues. If you use your own mind, it may not be in agreement with your bishop.

And just you your informed, no one is good enough to be forgiven. No one is capable of impressing God except those who realize who He is and fall in shame of their sin at His feet.

[James Banta]

[nrajeff;50450]---Are you calling me a liar, Jim? Here is some logic for you: If I DISAGREE with what I say your buddies have said, but YOU say that your buddies never said such a thing, then it could mean that your buddies and I actually AGREE. Are you willing to accuse your buddies of agreeing with an LDS?

Must I believe everything that a person says in order to ***ure them that they aren't lying? I don't think so.. I really believe that you are sincere in your post and tell the truth as you know it.. I just don't believe what you tell me is the truth. I believe you are parroting the lies you have been taught over the years.. It's strange to me that you could actually believe this stuff but you do and think you are stating truth.. None of the unique doctrines of mormonism are the truth.. They are all the lies of Joseph Smith..

---Can YOU understand it? Can YOU make sense of it? Because your buddies often end up essentially admitting that it's a "mystery, who are you to question it, God's ways are higher than our ways, etc."

Yes I agree, But God's ways are God's ways and in them there is no variance or shadow of turning.. What He has given to us as His will for our lives and salvation is His, then is no other way, no other will for us, nor can there ever be.. What His message is to us it is and it too is never changing.

---LOL. Did you even READ Mesenja's post? Did you read Spurgeon's sermon?
It's been said that modern Calvinism (neo-Calvinism?) is so foreign to previous Christian doctrine that even John Calvin would have problems with it. And yet you want to DEFEND it? Why?

Yes and so what? I have shown you FROM THE BIBLE. where the doctrines of TULIP are part of the doctrine presented in the New Testament.. It doesn't matter if another preacher disagrees or not. The Bible is the final word not anyone that disagrees with it.

---What I can't believe is that GOD ever SAID that all people, including fetuses that die before birth, HAVE sinned. Can you prove that GOD ever said such a thing? I can find where PAUL wrote something to the ROMAN SAINTS, but last I checked, Paul was not God, and Paul was not even QUOTING God.

I can show you in Gods's word what I have shown to you. Here is is one more time.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

Because this came by the hand of Paul you seem to want to reject it.. Fine than reject it. Just don't tell me you believe in the Bible while you do..

Yes this is from Paul but as He was moved by the Holy Spirit. That makes it God's word since the Holy Spirit is God. I would love hearing that you consider this p***age to be a lie, that it isn't God's word at all.. That will be very telling to all who read it just what it is you believe.. And that isn't a belief in God.

You reject that which has been given to us through a man who was a Real Apostle. A man who saw the risen Lord. Who others verified as having heard the evidence of that vision. Another who had been directed by God to give Paul back his sight. People who saw marvelous works of God being preformed by his hand. You go right on and deny such a man. I will hold these writings as though they were given directly by the mouth of Jesus. You go on and deny it.

IHS jim

[stemelbow]

Originally Posted by James Banta

By this thesis you Stem would be evil as well.. You have had children and they have proved to be equal in the evil in their hearts as an murderer.. Once more you knew they would be but you brought them into the world anyway.. So are you responsible for their sins or are you merely a accessor after the fact? IHS jim

do you know what you're talking about? My argument does not rest on whether anyone knows evil will be practiced. It rests on your concept of God, by logical extension, being the sole source of evil since He obviously had to be the first one ever to conceive of the concept.

love,
stem

[stemelbow]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

"Attempt"?? I succeeded, stemmy. Why you can't see the obvious is beyond me!

Because IF your Mormo-deity IS OMNISCIENT (which in reality you DENY, although you're still trying to affirm that he is), he KNEW ALL OF HIS LITTLE SPIRIT CHIL'S FUTURE ACTIONS..."EVIL DEEDS AND DESIGNS"...So, stem, does the Mormo-deity possess OMNISCIENCE or NOT???

You're basically saying he does NOT!!

Your attempt was in vain, JD, and this further attempt only furthers such. Its not a matter of whether God knew evil would be, its a matter of your beliefs forcing upon God to be the only one who originally conceived of all evil designs...long before Satan ever was.

Irrelevant, stemster. But IF your Mormo-god is really OMNISCIENT, he couldn't help but KNOW ALL OF LUCIFER'S FUTURE EVIL DEEDS AND ACTIONS. Again, stem...WHY can't you see this?

You actually make the irrelevant point. My argument does not suggest that since God knew of evil that means he's responsible for it. It suggests that evil would never be, if you take your beliefs to their logical conclusion, if He did not initially conceive of every evil design his creatures would do before He created them out of nothing. For LDS evil designs already were. evil beings already were.

Stem, stem, stem. You just DENIED that Mormo-god is "omniscient". All mormo-god can do is GUESS what Lucifer would do BASED UPON "PREVIOUS REBELLIONS AQND EVILS ALREADY PRAXCTICED THROUGH ETERNITY. Therefore, Mormo-god does NOT POSSESS OMNISCIENCE, NOR ANY KIND OF FOREKNOWLEDGE. You denied it, dude. THINK, stem. Please THINK!!

Simply you misunderstood me. We've been over this before so there's no point. You are still playing a silly game of twisting and running.

love,
stem

[stemelbow]

Originally Posted by Radix

Loving stem, God has given all of us some degree of choice. Including angels. The kind of god you propose is nothing more than a computer programmer. That is a god who is not looking for love, but strictly for obedience to build up himself. Love does not come from a set program. The evil comes from the decisions of men and angels.

I think you're wrong in your attempt to mischaracterize my position as proposing a God who is nothing more than a computer programmer. The last sentence of this paragraph is merely a deflection from my point. Allow me to ask you a few questions to get to the root of it.

Did God create ex nihilo in your opinion?

Did God know, and in fact, conceive of every deed any of His yet to be created creatures would do before He created them?

Thus, if God knew of every evil deed any of His creatures would do before He created them, then that would require that the evil that would be practiced originated in God's own conception, right? For instance Lucifer's rebellion has direct ties to God's knowledge before Lucifer ever was. If God did not conceive of Lucifer's rebellion before creating him from nothing, then Lucifer would never have rebelled. If that is not so, then God would not have really created lucifer from nothing knowing all that he would be.

If God created absolutely, that is from nothing essentially, then His creations are only a product of what He conceived of them to be. Taking your beliefs logically, God could very well have conceived of every non-existing creature, at the time before He created any, as that which would not do evil...But He did not. Thus, all evil is traced back to His own conception.

Death came about because of sin. Now one goofy thing here is that LDS believe that their god wanted Adam to sin. So on one hand you tell us you cannot believe in a self existent god because of sin and evil, yet you believe in a god who commanded Adam to sin. Sadly you are the one who accuses us of throwing all logic out the window.

But such is merely a matter of deflection. You see, even if as you suggest, "LDS believe that their god wanted Adam to sin", sin already was. Evil was already practiced. Thus evil itself cannot be traced back to God's conception for LDS. Logically speaking LDS are free from the conclusion that God is the source of evil, as mainstreamism, if logically considered, requires.

love,
stem

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Jeff, this is the doctrine of "inherited sin"--Adam's sin was imputed to mankind and thus we are considered sinful even without breaking any law (see verse 13 below).

----And that shows that God doesn't punish unfairly....how? This may sound crazy to Tulip-followers, but branding someone "guilty" for the crime of someone else seems somehow less than fair.

But the fact is that we do sin, everyone of us, everyday.

---Not all those fetuses. Defend your ***ertion by naming all the sins that you know all fetuses commit every day.

We have an inherited sin nature--we sin because of this nature.

----So it's fair to say that you believe God has programmed every single human being (except Adam and Eve) to automatically sin. And THAT is fair how, exactly? Does "setting us up for failure" ring a bell?

However sin and accountability are not the same, as we have previously discussed. A child can sin but may not be accountable for that sin.

---That is untrue if "sin" is the willful, knowing, deliberate rebellion against what a person knows is God's will. Just like in order for a homicide to even meet the definition of 1st-degree murder, it had to be done on purpose, by someone with the mental capacity to know it was wrong, and with premeditated malice. If it doesn't meet the definition, it's not 1st-degree murder.

You seem to want to do something ****ogous to accusing a retarded 1-year-old baby of murder, if that baby threw a rattle which hit the trigger of a gun which fired a bullet which fatally hit someone in the head.

[Radix]

Again loving stem, the god you propose is NOTHING more than a computer programmer. The God who is creator of time and space knew he was taking a chance. If there is no choice, there is no love. You are nothing but an executable program.

I guess if you believe the god you worship also sinned, then sin was already in existence. But as for Christians, God is truly Holy. No one has to impart Holiness to Him.

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by Radix

Again loving stem, the god you propose is NOTHING more than a computer programmer. The God who is creator of time and space knew he was taking a chance.

Interesting choice of words!!!!!!! If God was 'taking a chance', then that would mean that God did not know the outcome!!!!!????????? If God did not know the out come that makes him less than omniscient!!!!! Interesting choice of words!!!! Sure you don't want to take that back???????

Marvin

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

Interesting choice of words!!!!!!! If God was 'taking a chance', then that would mean that God did not know the outcome!!!!!????????? If God did not know the out come that makes him less than omniscient!!!!! Interesting choice of words!!!! Sure you don't want to take that back???????

Marvin

I agree, Marvin. What Radix wrote is WHAT YOU BELIEVE.

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Father_JD
"Attempt"?? I succeeded, stemmy. Why you can't see the obvious is beyond me!

Because IF your Mormo-deity IS OMNISCIENT (which in reality you DENY, although you're still trying to affirm that he is), he KNEW ALL OF HIS LITTLE SPIRIT CHIL'S FUTURE ACTIONS..."EVIL DEEDS AND DESIGNS"...So, stem, does the Mormo-deity possess OMNISCIENCE or NOT???

You're basically saying he does NOT!!

Your attempt was in vain, JD, and this further attempt only furthers such. Its not a matter of whether God knew evil would be, its a matter of your beliefs forcing upon God to be the only one who originally conceived of all evil designs...long before Satan ever was.

LOL. It's ALL ABOUT "whether God KNEW evil would be", stem. The issue has been Mormo-god's OMNISCIENCE or lack thereof. You're DEFLECTING. You've said in so many words that the Mormo-god is NOT omniscient, although you continue to play your game of "Nuh-uh"!!


Quote:
Irrelevant, stemster. But IF your Mormo-god is really OMNISCIENT, he couldn't help but KNOW ALL OF LUCIFER'S FUTURE EVIL DEEDS AND ACTIONS. Again, stem...WHY can't you see this?

You actually make the irrelevant point. My argument does not suggest that since God knew of evil that means he's responsible for it...

And that's MY argument, stem. It's YOU who's decided to play this inane game of BLAMING God for evil.

...It suggests that evil would never be, if you take your beliefs to their logical conclusion, if He did not initially conceive of every evil design his creatures would do before He created them out of nothing. For LDS evil designs already were. evil beings already were.

Ya just can't have it both ways, Stemster, although you Mos ALWAYS try to have your cake (Mormo-god is OMNISCIENT) and eat it too (Mormo-god didn't know his spirit chil' Lucifer was gonna be evil).


Quote:
Stem, stem, stem. You just DENIED that Mormo-god is "omniscient". All mormo-god can do is GUESS what Lucifer would do BASED UPON "PREVIOUS REBELLIONS AND EVILS ALREADY PRACTICED THROUGH ETERNITY. Therefore, Mormo-god does NOT POSSESS OMNISCIENCE, NOR ANY KIND OF FOREKNOWLEDGE. You denied it, dude. THINK, stem. Please THINK!!

Simply you misunderstood me. We've been over this before so there's no point. You are still playing a silly game of twisting and running.

LOL. And just how did I "misunderstand" you, stem? I understand you only too well. You're a product of Pavlovian conditioning which makes it somehow possible for you to hold to two mutually-exclusive truth claims simultaneously.

You can't even begin to see your illogical thinking here.

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

I agree, Marvin. What Radix wrote is WHAT YOU BELIEVE.

Then you need to take a course in reading comprehension. He was stating his beliefs. Only I can state my beliefs.

Marvin

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

Then you need to take a course in reading comprehension. He was stating his beliefs. Only I can state my beliefs.
Marvin

----Yeah, it seems that Radix has made a statement worthy of the "keeper" files.

[Radix]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

Interesting choice of words!!!!!!! If God was 'taking a chance', then that would mean that God did not know the outcome!!!!!????????? If God did not know the out come that makes him less than omniscient!!!!! Interesting choice of words!!!! Sure you don't want to take that back???????

Marvin

Another one putting unwanted words in my mouth. I NEVER said God would not know the outcome. You are forcing the issue as well that God would be nothing but a supreme programmer. No love in that.

[Radix]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

----Yeah, it seems that Radix has made a statement worthy of the "keeper" files.

Go for it. Just make sure your using my words and not what you are reading into it.

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

Then you need to take a course in reading comprehension. He was stating his beliefs. Only I can state my beliefs.

Marvin

You missed my point, Marvin: What Radix wrote appears to be more in harmony with Mormon doctrine.

Christians do have differing viewpoints regarding some things such as election and predestination.

We'd have to ask Radix exactly what he meant by what he wrote.

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Radix

Another one putting unwanted words in my mouth. I NEVER said God would not know the outcome. You are forcing the issue as well that God would be nothing but a supreme programmer. No love in that.

Thanks for your clarification, Radix.

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by Radix

Another one putting unwanted words in my mouth. I NEVER said God would not know the outcome. You are forcing the issue as well that God would be nothing but a supreme programmer. No love in that.

When you take a change you don't know the outcome. If you know the outcome you aren't taking a chance. Its a sure thing.

You are the one who said that God took a chance. No one else.

Again, I ask if you want to take back what you said. It ain't turning out so good for ya!!.


Marvin

[Father_JD]

You're right, Marvin. If one "takes a chance", one doesn't know the outcome. I think Radix simply misspoke.

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

You're right, Marvin. If one "takes a chance", one doesn't know the outcome. I think Radix simply misspoke.

Thank you JD for a simple and courteous reply. Let's see if Radix will say the same thing.

Marvin.