Is God unable to create in kind?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Thanks for capitalizing God. Oh I had to do it for you. Thank goodness for editing huh?

I have done that on purpose but I think that you are the first to notice. When I am speaking about a false god I try to remember to NOT capitalize it. So when I am speaking about the LDS god I do not capitalize it because there is only one true God, which I capitalize of course.

[MacG]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Again, the context is false gods and idol worship, and the source of our salvation. The only God that can bring man to salvation is the One True God. There are no others.

However there are others like Him - just not in this cluster of heavens that He created?

MacG

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Again, the context is false gods and idol worship, and the source of our salvation. The only God that can bring man to salvation is the One True God. There are no others.

Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."

Fig, you are saying that this is talking about "false gods" only? So the verse would read

. . .before me there was no (false) God formed, neither shall there be after me."

Do you believe that no false gods were formed after God? Does this make any sense to you at all?

[MacG]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."

Fig, you are saying that this is talking about "false gods" only? So the verse would read

. . .before me there was no (false) God formed, neither shall there be after me."

Do you believe that no false gods were formed after God? Does this make any sense to you at all?

Billy what he is insisting on is context. The context is that God is only speaking ot the Israelites and there is only one God - for them and this creation and He is mute about other gods and other created heavens.

I suspect what might convince Fig is if the Bible said that "Not only do I know of no other Gods, I know of no others in yonder heavens either".
MacG

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by MacG

Billy what he is insisting on is context. The context is that God is only speaking ot the Israelites and there is only one God - for them and this creation and He is mute about other gods and other created heavens.

MacG

But that is not what the verse states and I know that Fig knows it. In the LDS theology there were gods formed before god the Father so this is a lie per their own thinking. Another point is that the God of the OT for LDS is Jehovah/Jesus not the Father. Look up LORD in the LDS Bible dictionary for clarification.

Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith (Jesus), and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am He: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."

This makes no sense at all no matter how you slice it.

[MacG]

Originally Posted by Billyray

But that is not what the verse states and I know that Fig knows it. In the LDS theology there were gods formed before god the Father so this is a lie per their own thinking. Another point is that the God of the OT for LDS is Jehovah/Jesus not the Father. Look up LORD in the LDS Bible dictionary for clarification.

Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith (Jesus), and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am He: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."

This makes no sense at all no matter how you slice it.

But for Fig the Father is not the God who can save therefore there is no other God.

Fig correct me if I am wrong about that.

I do not have the "luxury" to hold on to other "holy" books that imtimate that there are other Gods who can save just not in these heavens. So I am stuck with the Bible that was good enough for Jesus and led us to believe that there are no other true Gods period. At least the corrupt sects that JS was warned not to join had nothing to do with the Old Testament so it is safe and remains as pure as the Bible that Jesus read.

MacG

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I have done that on purpose but I think that you are the first to notice. When I am speaking about a false god I try to remember to NOT capitalize it. So when I am speaking about the LDS god I do not capitalize it because there is only one true God, which I capitalize of course.

Oh, we all notice. It is just an indication of how far you have fallen.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by MacG

However there are others like Him - just not in this cluster of heavens that He created?

MacG

There are other gods, yes. Of course.

I suggest we both read this paper, and I will to, and then we can discuss the implications

http://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cg...t=lts_fac_pubs

Thanks.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Oh, we all notice. It is just an indication of how far you have fallen.

Fig, there is only one true God. The LDS gods (polytheism) do not line up with what is taught in the Bible. I am sorry to give you that news but it is the truth. You can try to justify your position by attacking me personally, but that does not change the facts.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Fig, there is only one true God. The LDS gods (polytheism) do not line up with what is taught in the Bible. I am sorry to give you that news but it is the truth. You can try to justify your position by attacking me personally, but that does not change the facts.

It is your disrespect of God that I am attacking.

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

It is your disrespect of God that I am attacking.

Fig....you don't even know who God is....or did you forget you are mormon...and you have the gall to say he is disrespecting God?

If you really think he is disrespecting God....prove it.

Andy

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by akaSeerone

Fig....you don't even know who God is....or did you forget you are mormon...and you have the gall to say he is disrespecting God?

If you really think he is disrespecting God....prove it.

Andy

lower case "g"

Do a little reading, Andy.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

It is your disrespect of God that I am attacking.

Fig, the god that you believe in is completely different than the God the Biblical Christians believe in. The LDS god and the Biblical God have characteristics that are mutually exclusive and thus both can't be true. One is true or the other is true but not both. The bottom line is that the LDS gods (polytheism) do not conform to the only true God of the Bible, thus the LDS god is a false god. I do not praise or give respect to false gods. My respect, honor, praise and worship are to the only true and living God.

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

lower case "g"

Do a little reading, Andy.

Here is what you said.

It is your disrespect of God that I am attacking.

I do not see a lower case g for God.

And if you are referring to the mormon god, then the lower case g is appropriate.

If you don't think it is I would like to see you prove from the Bible that it isn't.

The mormon god is not found in the Bible except where ever it talks about false gods and that should be enough to get you to doing some serious thinking about your false prophet Smith and the anti-Christian church he started.

Andy

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by akaSeerone

Here is what you said.


I do not see a lower case g for God.

And if you are referring to the mormon god, then the lower case g is appropriate.

See there you are too. Blaspheming and being irreverent. You cannot be Christian when you blaspheme the God of Christianity like that.

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

See there you are too. Blaspheming and being irreverent. You cannot be Christian when you blaspheme the God of Christianity like that.

Sorry you feel that way fig.

I am being just about irreverent as Elijah was to the false gods and prophets of Baal.

If you want to talk about irreverent, talk about how irreverent Smith was to the God of the Bible....it doesn't get any worse than what he did.

Smith couldn't of believed in God the way he ran God through the mud.

I know it has to be hard on you being in a cult and all.

We are praying for you.

Andy

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by akaSeerone

Smith couldn't of believed in God the way he ran God through the mud.

More hot air on your part, Andy.

Joseph certainly argued against the sectarian notion of God as promoted by orthodox theologians of his time, if that's what you mean. But he had the highest adoration and reverence for God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ.

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

More hot air on your part, Andy.

Joseph certainly argued against the sectarian notion of God as promoted by orthodox theologians of his time, if that's what you mean. But he had the highest adoration and reverence for God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ.

Hmmmm. Making God in the likeness of men...going as far as to say God hasn't always been God, but some schmuck on an imaginary planet/sun called "Kolob" who earned his godhood merit badge at some kind of celestial jamboree is having "the highest adoration and reverence"???

Hardly. JS created an IDOL from his own imagination. The Mormon god ain't the biblical God, Fig.

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

Hmmmm. Making God in the likeness of men...going as far as to say God hasn't always been God, but some schmuck on an imaginary planet/sun called "Kolob" who earned his godhood merit badge at some kind of celestial jamboree...

---Yet YOU believed, FOR DECADES, that all that was not only plausible, but TRUE, FJD. What excuse do you have for being so stewpid as to believe all that stuff?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---Yet YOU believed, FOR DECADES, that all that was not only plausible, but TRUE, FJD. What excuse do you have for being so stewpid as to believe all that stuff?

I believed that as well Jeff, but the fact that someone believes something does not make it true. I was clearly blinded by the enemy.

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I believed that as well Jeff, but the fact that someone believes something does not make it true.

--Nor does the fact that you renounced it make UNtrue.

I was clearly blinded by the enemy.

---Sure, "clearly" ..

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---Yet YOU believed, FOR DECADES, that all that was not only plausible, but TRUE, FJD. What excuse do you have for being so stewpid as to believe all that stuff?

LOL! I believed it because I didn't know any better, jeff...First of all, I read the Bible in bits and pieces LIKE YOU, and really didn't KNOW the Bible. Secondly, I was indoctrinated to MISREAD the Bible just like YOU until God bestowed GRACE upon me and enabled me to read the Holy Text IN CONTEXT.

What's YOUR excuse for still believing in JS IDOL??

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

LOL! I believed it because I didn't know any better, jeff...First of all, I read the Bible in bits and pieces LIKE YOU, and really didn't KNOW the Bible. Secondly, I was indoctrinated to MISREAD the Bible just like YOU until God bestowed GRACE upon me and enabled me to read the Holy Text IN CONTEXT.

What's YOUR excuse for still believing in JS IDOL??

---Simple: The God of Evanism hasn't deigned to bestow any of that capriciously applied GRACE on me yet. So there's my excuse! Cool, huh?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---Simple: The God of Evanism hasn't deigned to bestow any of that capriciously applied GRACE on me yet. So there's my excuse!

Jeff, the saddest part of your statement is that it is likely true. But I am holding on to the "YET" in your statement. He dragged me out of Mormonism, I wouldn't be surprised that He does the same for you at some point in your life. Regeneration (born again) is the work of God and not of man. Without being born again you can't even see the kingdom of God. I think that is why you are having such hard time understanding Biblical doctrine.

John 3:3 "In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." (NIV)

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Jeff, the saddest part of your statement is that it is likely true.

---I agree: The belief that God is that capricious and micro-managing, IS sad. That's why I reject it.

But I am holding on to the "YET" in your statement. He dragged me out of Mormonism, I wouldn't be surprised that He does the same for you at some point in your life.

--I would be VERY surprised if that were to happen, since so far no other set of doctrines makes as much sense and portrays God as rationally.

Regeneration (born again) is the work of God and not of man. Without being born again you can't even see the kingdom of God. I think that is why you are having such hard time understanding Biblical doctrine.

---You don't see how "cult-think" that idea is? "The reason our beliefs seem illogical and unfair to you, is simply because God hasn't called you to be one of "the Body" and you are therefore UNABLE to understand these concepts." What a great (but condescending) excuse for the illogic of one's beliefs. Didn't the Gnostics have similar reasoning?

John 3:3 "In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." (NIV)

---Does that explain why you fail to see the kingdom of God among the LDS?