One Baptism For The Forgiveness Of Sins

[RGS]

On the internet, one can find the Nicene Creed with Scripture references. Most that I have found explain that the part of the creed which states "one baptism for the forgiveness of sins", that one should refer to Ephesians 4:5. I believe these references were made by Orthodox and some Protestant churches, but not Roman Catholic.

Since Ephesians 4:5 says nothing about forgiveness of sins, I don't see what this Scripture has to do with ""one baptism for the forgiveness of sins". What is the RCC understanding or teaching on this phrase? What Scripture reference would the RCC use? What does this phrase mean to the RCC? Is this why the RCC baptizes infants?

I am not looking for a fight. I would like to know the correct RCC teaching on this part of the Nicene Creed.

Thank you.

[tealblue]

Mark1:4

And so John came, baptizing in the desert region and preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.



Luke3:3

He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.



Acts 2:38

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, everyone of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Its not only Catholics that believe that baptism is for the forgiveness of sins. Its also not just Catholics who believe that when jesus was refering to being born again he was refering to baptism. Alot of protestants belive this way. I'm not talking just the liturgical types(luthern, methodist) but non denominational types.

[tealblue]

This is the officaial Catholic understanding of the phrase one baptism for the forgiveness of sin.

. ONE BAPTISM FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS

977 Our Lord tied the forgiveness of sins to faith and Baptism: "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He who believes and is baptized will be saved."521 Baptism is the first and chief sacrament of forgiveness of sins because it unites us with Christ, who died for our sins and rose for our justification, so that "we too might walk in newness of life."522

978 "When we made our first profession of faith while receiving the holy Baptism that cleansed us, the forgiveness we received then was so full and complete that there remained in us absolutely nothing left to efface, neither original sin nor offenses committed by our own will, nor was there left any penalty to suffer in order to expiate them. . . . Yet the grace of Baptism delivers no one from all the weakness of nature. On the contrary, we must still combat the movements of concupiscence that never cease leading us into evil "523

979 In this battle against our inclination towards evil, who could be brave and watchful enough to escape every wound of sin? "If the Church has the power to forgive sins, then Baptism cannot be her only means of using the keys of the Kingdom of heaven received from Jesus Christ. The Church must be able to forgive all penitents their offenses, even if they should sin until the last moment of their lives."524

980 It is through the sacrament of Penance that the baptized can be reconciled with God and with the Church:

[vladimir998]

Acts 2:38-41

And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him." And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation." So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls



Acts 22:16

And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.


Case closed.

[tealblue]

What does this really mean to Catholics? Well the baptism removes the stain of original sin. We still sin and need to be reconciled to god from time to time. It doesn't mean that we are saved for ever from that point. Coming from an evangelical view you might view salvation as an event that happens at a certain point of a persons life. So thinking that baptism saves you seems very foreign. Catholics view salvation in a 3 dimentional view. Meaning we have been saved, are being saved and hope to be saved at the same time. We see salvation as being something given at the end of time. You notice Catholics don't go on missions to save people but to help and feed them. Because we feel that unless we plan on being with a certain peron til the end it makes no sense. We don't see trying to get a person an alter call or say the sinners prayer as effective true conversion. We convert through love and charity.

[tealblue]

Infant Baptism

col 2

10
and you share in this fullness in him, who is the head of every principality and power.
11
In him 5 you were also circumcised with a circumcision not administered by hand, by stripping off the carnal body, with the circumcision of Christ.
12
You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

Paul would not have refered to baptism in place of circumcission if infants were not meant to be baptized. Circumcision in the old law was always done to infants. While where are not specific examples in scripture of any infants Paul did baptize entire housholds. Actually most of the arguments against infant baptism comes from the phrase" repent and be baptize" Yes but we are also talking about adult converts not somebody growing up in the faith.

Luke 18
People were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them, and when the disciples saw this, they rebuked them.
16
Jesus, however, called the children to himself and said, "Let the children come to me and do not prevent them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.
17
Amen, I say to you, whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it."

Jesus was very clear about rebuking the deciples for questioning people bringing infants to him.

[RGS]

Thanks Vlad and Teal, you have given me a good understanding of the RCC view. That is very helpful. As I said, I didn't ask so that I could debate, I asked so that I could learn from the answer.

Actually, this information will help me in my dialog with a "seeker friendly" church's leadership. I don't know if you're familiar with the "seeker friendly" term. But it is one of several terms that are an outgrowth of an Hegelian dialectic process. One of its most successful proponents is Rick Warren of Saddleback Community Church in California.

I didn't see either of you refer to Ephesian 4:5 as a reference to explain the phrase "one baptism for the forgiveness of sins". I did not expect it, even though many Orthodox and Protestant churches do so. And in that area, I am in agreement with your explanations.

Thanks again.

[kentuckypreacher]

I am not Roman Catholic. But both Vlad and Teal have made good points in what they said, and though Ephesians 4:5 does not mention "forgiveness" in connection with the one baptism, other verses do.

However, nothing in the New Testament teaches baptism is for infants, nor that baptism can be administered by sprinkling or pouring (neither of which is the "one baptism").

BIBLE BAPTISM is the immersion in water of penitent believers, for the remission of sins.

[tealblue]

Also nothing in the new testement says baptism is not for infants. Jesus says the promise of baptism is for you and your children. And accounts of baptizing entire housholds have been recorded. Not ever excluding infants or young children.

Acts 2

38
Peter (said) to them, "Repent and be baptized, 7 every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit.
39
For the promise is made to you and to your children and to all those far off, whomever the Lord our God will call."

As far as the method of baptism Jesus never commanded full imersion. Some of the baptism may have been full imersion but bilical acounts of baptizing 3000 people at once denies such a conclusion. The baptism itself comes from the word baptizmo which means to wash. In luke 11:38 baptizmo(wash) is used to describe washing befor dinner. I doubt that they practised full imersion(washing) before eating. All the old testemnt accounts of cerimonial washing has mostly been by pouring. At my parish we usually fully immerse but at others where they have no capability they simply pour.

[kentuckypreacher]

Teal:

BIBLE BAPTISM is only for those who first hear the Word of God, believe, repent, and confess faith in Christ - non of which an infant can do.

Infants are not guilty of sin that needs remitted.

Also, the word for "baptize" means immerse and every New Testament example demands immersion.

Sorry, you are just completely wrong on this one.

[tealblue]

Yes infants still have original sin which is what baptism is for. As far as the word baptizo. In Luke 11:38 the word baptismo(wash) is used to describe the prescribed washing before mealtime. I highly doubt that the prescribed washing before a meal was a full immersion washing. Show me in scripture where this prescribed believe, repent and confess is found. All it says is repent and be baptized. Also we are talking about an adult convert. Paul compares circumcission to baptism which was done to infants in the old testement. Paul would NOT compare it to circumcission if infants were not intended.

37
10 After he had spoken, a Pharisee invited him to dine at his home. He entered and reclined at table to eat.
38
The Pharisee was amazed to see that he did not observe the prescribed washing before the meal.

Early christian mosaics found suggest that pouring was the more common method.

Jesus promises baptism for you AND you children.


38
Peter (said) to them, "Repent and be baptized, 7 every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit.
39
For the promise is made to you and to your children and to all those far off, whomever the Lord our God will call."

[AwGusTeen]

Teal:

BIBLE BAPTISM is only for those who first hear the Word of God, believe, repent, and confess faith in Christ - non of which an infant can do.

Infants are not guilty of sin that needs remitted.

Also, the word for "baptize" means immerse and every New Testament example demands immersion.

Sorry, you are just completely wrong on this one.

Not so fast there, KP. Let’s see how the earliest non-canonical text (The Didache - Estimated Range of Dating: 50-120 C.E.) describes the sacrament of Baptism as practiced by the early Church.

7:1 But concerning baptism, thus shall ye baptize.
7:2 Having first recited all these things, baptize {in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit} in living (running) water.
7:3 But if thou hast not living water, then baptize in other water;
7:4 and if thou art not able in cold, then in warm.
7:5 But if thou hast neither, then pour water on the head thrice in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
7:6 But before the baptism let him that baptizeth and him that is baptized fast, and any others also who are able;
7:7 and thou shalt order him that is baptized to fast a day or two before.

Clearly, the practice was dependent upon the resources at hand (I.e. running versus stagnant, cold or warm, etc.) Dunking is NOT a requirement and, like most of the traditions comming out of the Protestant reformation and beyond, is a modern concoction - well, relatively speaking that is.

† Pax †

[AwGusTeen]

On the internet, one can find the Nicene Creed with Scripture references. Most that I have found explain that the part of the creed which states "one baptism for the forgiveness of sins", that one should refer to Ephesians 4:5. I believe these references were made by Orthodox and some Protestant churches, but not Roman Catholic.

Since Ephesians 4:5 says nothing about forgiveness of sins, I don't see what this Scripture has to do with ""one baptism for the forgiveness of sins". What is the RCC understanding or teaching on this phrase? What Scripture reference would the RCC use? snip...

Thank you.

RGS: I believe I can help with this. The following scripture indicates how the Catholic Church comes to it's position of slavific baptism. My comments are in red...

In the Old Testament, God introduced Baptism:

Ezekiel: 36 25-27: 25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

What do we have here? We have someone sprinkled with water and through that action, they are made clean from their filthiness, and they receive God’s spirit. This passage from the Old Testament shows us that God, by his own design and not that of men, uses an outward sign to bring about an inward change in his people – a foreshadowing of baptism in the New Testament. Notice how God in the old covenant was preparing us for what he gives us in the new covenant.

And now, let’s move on to the New Testament to see the correlation.

Acts 2:38 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22:16 16And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Scripture plainly tells us that Baptism washes away sin; and through Baptism, we receive the Holy Spirit. Is it through baptism that we become Christians and members of the Body of Christ, or do we become Christians by accepting Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior? There is no passage in the Bible that says we become Christians by accepting Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior. While it is an imperative to have a personal relationship with Jesus, that in and of itself does not save.

1 Corinthians 12:13 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body [the body of Christ], whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Clearly, baptism makes us members of the Body of Christ and thus is the entrance into the new covenant with God, just a circumcision was the entrance into the old covenant with God. Scripture makes this connection for us in the following:

Colossians 2:11-12 11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Baptism is the entrance into the new covenant as explicitly stated in the scripture above. So, is baptism salvific as the Catholic Church teaches? Once again, let’s go to scripture.

1 Peter 3: 20-21 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Just as Noah and his family were saved by water, water baptism now saves us. There it is; explicitly stated in the Bible. Further, let's look at Jesus’ own words in John’s gospel…

John 3:5 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Let’s read on in context as follows a few verses later, after he finished his talk with Nicodemus…

John 3:22 22After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

What did Jesus do immediately after telling Nicodemus how he can be saved? He sent the apostles out baptizing with water. See the context? Baptism is the context in which one must be born of water and the spirit.

Further, look at all of the accounts in the gospels about Jesus’ own baptism. Jesus is baptized with water and look what happens to him when he comes up out of the water (or is sprinkled)... the spirit descends upon him – water and the spirit.

In Matthew 28:19 what did Jesus say in his final instructions to the apostles? Go therefore and make disciples of all nations getting them to accept me into their hearts as their personal lord and savior? No. It says:

19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Why is baptism given such paramount importance in Jesus’ final instructions to the apostles if it is only symbolic? Because it is salvific! Scripture simply does not support a symbolic view of baptism


I hope this helps.

† Pax †

[RGS]

Yes infants still have original sin

Where is original sin in the bible? As far as I can tell it is not there. This is a made up term - it is a concept that does not exist. There is no original sin.

RGS

[RGS]

AwGus,
Thanks but I already got what I needed. When John Calvin broke with the RCC he took some of the heresy with him. He still condemns babies to death, when they have committed no sin (original sin is a myth), just as the RCC does. The rest of your presentation is quite a fancy dance, but it doesn't change the fact that you have failed to see the spiritual application of water baptism. I'm not going to critique your entire presentation, because you will not accept it anyway. John 3:5 "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit..." What does water mean in this Scripture? You only have to look to John 3:6 to find your answer: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." A woman who has gone through a birth can tell you in a heartbeat that her child was born through water. Then verse 7 reinforces this concept when Yahoshua says that "Ye must be born again." He is making a very clear comparison here, born once by water, born again by the spirit. If you cannot grasp this concept, then you will not understand the rest of the answers you need. But you will not understand until you have been born again.
RGS

[tealblue]

Born again has always meant in baptism. Not until the born again movement of the early 19th century. Every early church writers early on from the first century on have always intepreted born again to be in baptism. This is a classic case of having a predetermined definition of a word and inserting this into a text.


After this, Jesus and his disciples went into the region of Judea, where he spent some time with them baptizing.
23
John was also baptizing in Aenon near Salim, 11 because there was an abundance of water there, and people came to be baptized,
24


After Jesus taught about being born again he went down to baptize with water because that is what he was talking about

[tealblue]

Where is original sin in the bible? As far as I can tell it is not there. This is a made up term - it is a concept that does not exist. There is no original sin.

RGS

This is specifically taught in romans 5

12
4 Therefore, just as through one person sin entered the world, and through sin, death, and thus death came to all, inasmuch as all sinned 5 --
13
for up to the time of the law, sin was in the world, though sin is not accounted when there is no law.