The Gift of Tongues

[kentuckypreacher]

I would be glad to affirm that NO ONE is "speaking in tongues" today.

[John Carr]

Funny I have spoken in tongues as I was baptized with the Holy Ghost like the Apostles and Disciples and saints in the Bible.
I also have spoken in the Gift of Tongues and Interpreted and as well seen and heard the same from others and other Gifts of the Spirit.
So why would there be no tongues today? what makes you make such a statement?

JC

[Trinitas]

Hey... got yourself a new name, huh, RJC?

You and your false "religion" can teach whatever you want... what really matters is what the Bible says, and there is not a single verse in the entire Bible that says ALL will speak in tongues as "proof" of their receiving the Holy Spirit. There are a few instances in the Bible where tongues does accompany the coming of the Spirit, but there are just as many where tongues does not. I know you Oneness types like to argue the "outward" showing angle, but it just doesn't fly. It doesn't fly because the Bible does not support it. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate that there will be some universal "sign" to definitively prove someone received the Holy Spirit... it's just not there.

The Holy Spirit is a promise for all believers, but that promise doesn't include tongues. The point is we DON'T see your supposed "sign" "over and over"... we see it just a few times. In fact, from the first time we see it (the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2) to the next time we see it (Acts 10 when Cornelius and friends speak in tongues) there is a huge gap of 11 years. 11 years where not a soul speaks in tongues. Of course, you will probably say this is an "argument from silence", but the real argument from silence is your own. Since there isn't a verse in the Bible that says we should expect something TO happen, making the ridiculous argument that something DID happen in Acts 8 and Acts 9 is purely the argument from silence... which is what we get when the Pentecostalists attempt to prove their false "doctrine". I'm not making an "argument from silence". Silence is all there is in Acts 8 and Acts 9... not a single mention of tongues.

Maybe you do have the GIFT of tongues, and maybe you have the GIFT of interpretation... that's certainly possible. But what you don't have is the "initial evidence" of anything. That doesn't exist. I believe tongues exist today... there is no reason to think the Spiritual gifts have ceased. But, "initial evidence" of tongues hasn't ceased... it NEVER existed!

[John Carr]

We are given a rpomise of the Father, we are to be baptized with the Holy Ghost, we are told this is a promise for all, even those afar off and as many as the Lord our God shall call.
We see the Biblicl doctrine of witnessess fulfilled with Acts 2:1-4 and the preaching of Peter regarding the Baptism, we see also the Gentiles as well as the Jews and John's followers in Acts 10: and 19: as recieving the same like Gift as Peter speaks of in Acts 11:14-18.
We see the Samaritans according to scholars had received speaking in tongues in Acts 8:, since the context of the p***age clearly shows something occured enough for Simon to want to receive this gifting in his life of laying on of hands and men getting the Holy Ghost.
So I would say you are dead wrong and enough Biblical evidence is against your position as to show me that you don't have the truth on the subject.

It does fly, because men continued to speak in tongues and those of your church deny them.

We also see that according to Mark 16:17 the sign was tongues and thus we know men today get the same thing as in times of old.

Plenty of proof is given to warrant that the Samaritans and Paul got the same gift as Peter and those on Pentecost.

In 1 Cor. 12:13 WE SEE THAT ALL ARE BAPTIZED WITH THE SAME SPIRIT, and I would claim would get the universal evidence and sign of tongues as the scripture say and show men got.

Paul stated he spoke in tongue more than all, and if he got the Holy Ghost as I beleive, then he got the same like gift as Peter and the Gentiles and the rest got.

Poor trinity churches don't have these, they don't even fake them well.
They deny One God and deny the name of Jesus and reject the Biblical standards of Holiness, we cannot then expect that they got the real experience in their lives.

JC

[Trinitas]

We are given a promise from the Father... the promise of the Holy Spirit. But that's where it ends. There is nothing in this "promise", or in any verse in the entire Bible, that says we ALL speak in tongues as "proof" of our having received that promise”! Nope... not a single verse in the Bible supports the absurd false "doctrine" of Pentecostalists that ALL will speak in tongues as the "initial evidence" of anything.

Your "doctrine of witnesses" is about as funny as your belief in "initial evidence" of tongues! If you want to resort to this trite argument, I will just throw it right back in your face: I have as many Biblical "witnesses" that refute your false "doctrine" as you have "witnesses" to support it. There are three times in the Bible that individuals speak in tongues upon receiving the Holy Spirit (the 12 apostles on the Day of Pentecost; Cornelius and group in Acts 10; and John's disciples in Acts 19) and there are three times that it doesn't happen (later in Acts 2 when the 3,000 are added; in Acts 8 with the Samaritans; and in Acts 9 when Paul receives the Holy Spirit). So, my "witnesses" cancel out your "witnesses"... Got anything better? Naw… didn’t think so!

I don’t give a hoot about your so called "scholars"... I care about what the Bible says, and there is not a word in the Bible about the Samaritans speaking in tongues when they received the Holy Spirit. So don't bore me with your meaningless "context". This event happens smack dab in the middle of an 11 year "drought" where there is not a single mention of tongues in the Book of Acts! “Context”… what rubbish! There is NO “context” to be had, since we haven’t seen a case of tongues in almost 7 chapters! So you have no "context"; you have no "paradigm"... what you got is a bunch of NOTHING, a bunch of uneducated Pentecostal "ministers" making up some fool "doctrine" that the Bible never teaches. That's all you got. NOTHING!

Say anything you want... I think you're dead wrong, and the Bible proves it. You can't point to a single verse that supports your false beliefs about tongues. No one ever taught such a stupid "doctrine" before January 1, 1901 when a bunch of illiterate Bible "students" dreamed it up as a homework ***ignment. And the student who first spoke in tongues, Agnes Ozman, later recanted. Yep... you got a bunch of wishful thinking, but you haven't got support from the Bible.

You’re getting messed up like always... I believe that tongues exist today! I have no reason to believe that the GIFT of tongues ceased operation. There's nothing in the Bible to support such a view. But what doesn't exist... what NEVER existed... is the Pentecostal rubbish about "initial evidence" of tongues.

Mark says tongues is a "sign", but Mark also lists a bunch of other similar "signs". Do ALL of those "signs" follow ALL believers? Of course not! So you can't argue one sign (tongues) does, when you can't prove it to be true about all of the "signs" listed in Mark. So give it up... Mark does nothing to support the Pentecostalists’ false "doctrine" of "initial evidence" of tongues.

I Corinthians does say all are baptized with the same Spirit, but that same book also says that NOT all will speak in tongues, so there is no support for any "universal evidence" or that tongues IS that "evidence". More defeat from the Bible, huh?

Paul made the statement about speaking in tongues in the middle of his discussion about the GIFT of tongues. Paul also says in I Corinthians 12:30 that he doesn't believe all will speak in tongues! So, there's no proof that Paul began speaking in tongues in Acts 9 when he received the Holy Spirit. And, in fact, the Bible shows that he DIDN'T! No proof... just a bunch of useless opinions from another misguided Pentecostalists...

Poor old backward Pentecostalists... so ignorant of Scripture that they have to make up false "signs" to bolster their weak, non-existent "faith". After all, that's what Paul says, doesn't he? Tongues are a "sign" for UNbelievers... guess that's just what the Pentecostalists are... UNbelievers...

[Trinitas]

I don't need a "new song"... I got the Bible, Buck! I have proof in God's Word that your "doctrine" is a bunch of RUBBISH! What have you got? NOTHING!

Once again... the only one speaking from "silence" here is you Pentecostalists... making up things that never happened and that the Bible doesn't support. While the Bible says nothing, you have to run around, make up what the Bible never says, all in order to support your false beliefs. That's the true "argument from silence". Silence is all Pentecostalsts have!

Hey... is your "banning" up at CARM yet, Schmitty?

[John Carr]

You don't follow the Bible sir, you reject One God and follow a trumped up trinity idea that has no support , save a lying Pope and false followers.

Several people are show as the example for us baptized with the Holy Ghost, just like Jesus was being baptized in water as the initial person, then the Apostles and those they baptized .

One must follow what the Bible says and shows, not what post writers say and people like yourself that have no such truth.

[Trinitas]

If you think I "don't follow the Bible", then prove it! Show me the verse in the Bible that says ALL will speak in tongues as PROOF of their receiving the Holy Spirit. It's really that "simple"... prove it by quoting the Bible, or admit that your "doctrine" is false and unBiblical.

Sorry... your pointless Oneness "propaganda" is a waste of time... and a waste of your breath. I do not "reject" One God... All Trinitarians believe in ONE GOD! If you say otherwise, you're bearing false witness. I have never met a Trinitarian who believed in "three gods"... that's a LIE that Oneness propagate... but that's all it is... A LIE.

There are several examples where people speak in tongues as part of their receiving the Holy Spirit... but there are as many others that do NOT speak in tongues. So three for, and three against... and not a single verse in the entire Bible that says ALL will speak in tongues as the definitive "proof" of Spirit baptism. So, until you show me that verse, I will NOT believe the Pentecostalists' false teachings about tongues. I will believe the Bible. I will follow the Bible and the Bible doesn't say anything in support of your false "doctrine" of "initial evidence" of tongues. The one who has no truth is YOU... you're the one who rejects the teachings of Scripture over the man-made LIES of Oneness...

Sorry, RJC, but that's just the way it is...

[Jean Chauvin]

Hello,

I know a little German. So yes I do speak in tongues.

Your understanding of tongues is UnBiblical. And tongues and prophesy, they have ceased (I Corinthians 13:8).

I know Walter was a pentecostal of sorts. That's fine. He use to refer in p***ing to the Montonists (he never mentioned their name though) as people in Church history still doing tongues.

But since I Cor was written in 56 AD. and since the council of God was not complete in writ yet (see Acts 20:27, I Cor 13:10), then tongues were needed as a means of revelation.

But since we have all our revelation, then the gifts of revelation are no longer needed.

And those who spoke tongues, did so via a language that was interpreted. An earthly language for the sake of understanding.

But I don't usually discuss this issue with Oneness folks. They have bigger problems to fry.

Their god is one that looks in a mirror and talks to himself. Jesus prays to himself, thus being somewhat schizophrenic.

It's like what about Bob,

PHP Code:

"Roses are red, violets are blue, I'm a schizophrenic, and so am I." 


So, I like talking about that more then Tongues. And it's more comical to talk about their Jesus.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

[Jill]

The gifts did not cease...why should the church today be any different or have any less power than the early church? Church History shows us that the gifts were talked about and used for centuries--remember Martin Luther? "The spirit and the gifts are ours through him who with us sideth." This isn't something we should fight about, though. Some will believe and some will not.

I know they exist today because I've experienced them, and I cannot deny the power of God. My father also experienced them, and they changed his life. Many other Christians can testify to this, so...sorry, I strongly disagree with the very weak argument that we have no need of the gifts today. As for interpreting tongues, yes, it is true that many have interpreted a foreign language that they never learned--but there is also the verse that says, "If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels..." so there you go--Paul said it was possible to speak in the language of the angels, too. Why? Think on that one for a bit.

Jean, you might also want to pray about the last part of that verse, "and have not love, I am nothing." Love does not mock other people's thoughts or feelings. "Love is patient and kind..."
1 Corinthians 13

[MacG]

Originally Posted by Jill

The gifts did not cease...why should the church today be any different or have any less power than the early church? Church History shows us that the gifts were talked about and used for centuries--remember Martin Luther? "The spirit and the gifts are ours through him who with us sideth." This isn't something we should fight about, though. Some will believe and some will not.

I know they exist today because I've experienced them, and I cannot deny the power of God. My father also experienced them, and they changed his life. Many other Christians can testify to this, so...sorry, I strongly disagree with the very weak argument that we have no need of the gifts today. As for interpreting tongues, yes, it is true that many have interpreted a foreign language that they never learned--but there is also the verse that says, "If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels..." so there you go--Paul said it was possible to speak in the language of the angels, too. Why? Think on that one for a bit.

Jean, you might also want to pray about the last part of that verse, "and have not love, I am nothing." Love does not mock other people's thoughts or feelings. "Love is patient and kind..."
1 Corinthians 13

Jean seems to have given up on us. However the next 2 verses past his reference helps out here:
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will p*** away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.

If what Jean and Harold Camping say is true then we ought to read verse 10 "but when completeness comes" as "but when the canon is complete" for the full reading like this:

? 8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will p*** away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the canon is complete, what is in part disappears. ?

The follow up verses put even more light on the subject.

"When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. "

Who now knows fully? Who sees the real and not the reflection? Too bad for Paul he never saw the full canon

MacG

[tdidymas]

So then, were the original questions answered? I saw some whirlwind of responses, but not much substance. One person answered the question "What happens if other christians don't receive this gift?" - split hell and be cast into the lake of fire. One person said "ALL" must do it. Well, in my understanding, this is what Oneness Pentecostals teach regarding tongues:

1. Anyone and all who receive the Holy Spirit speaks in tongues
2. If you haven't spoken in tongues, you don't have the Holy Spirit
3. Anyone not having the Holy Spirit goes to hell
4. No one can speak in tongues by the Holy Spirit prior to salvation
5. A person who gets saved and speaks in tongues can be lost again

I do not imply that any of this is Biblical teaching. Someone might ask why I wouldn't agree with #3, but not in the context of UPC teaching. I am not saying that Pentecostals are not authentic Christians. The criteria for evaluating someone's life is not by doctrine, but by lifestyle. Not to say that some doctrines are not essential to the Christian faith, but Jesus said "by their fruit you shall know them."

It is unfortunate that many Christians do not properly interpret the scriptures. This is the reason why there are so many different denominations. It does not mean that Christ is divided (in reality), although it certainly appears so from a social point of view. However, as it goes, there are many who believe themselves to be Christian that will have a rude awakening in the day of judgment.

In regard to the subject of tongues, I say that it is a stretch of the imagination to say that the common practice of speaking in tongues today measures up to the teaching about tongues in the NT. If anyone sincerely wants to know how I come up with this conclusion, I would be happy to explain it, and show by which hermeneutical principles I am interpreting the scripture. I am not one to give an opinion without having extensive study as well as experience in the matter.

I am not saying that my opinion here is worth much, as compared to the opinion of Christ and the apostles. I am only trying to say that I make every effort that my opinion does not deviate from the writers of the NT. In addition, I have experience with this subject, in which God has corrected me because I was boldly erring in it. I am willing to explain this if anyone wants to know.

Let me know if this thread needs to be under a different category, if it does not fall under "Oneness Pentecostalism".

[jeanmarie]

Originally Posted by BuckGardner

Get a new song, you are wearing this out and cannot prove anyone ever got Baptized with the Holy Ghost with NOTHING!

You wish to speak from the evidence from silence, we speak what we know and what we see and that is the doctrine of witnesses that make up a doctrine and that refute you here.

ALL ARE TO BE BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY GHOST, you Catholic mongrels are not and nor is the Protestants who pretend they are.

buck,
Are you judging other christians again?
See Mt.7:1-5 It will tell you why you shoudn't.
All christians are baptized by the Holy Spirit at the moment of their faith. 'No one can Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.' Are you aware of this?
It's called being Born Again. John.3:5 God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever beleives in him shall not perish but have eternal life." This includes you. However, you must stop judging others. The reason being, you will be jugded with the same measure that you use on others. Please read this in Mt:7:1-5
God shows no favoritism.

God bless ,
jean

PS. there are many other christians that speak in tongues . they can be found in many christian churches. I'm one of them.

[jeanmarie]

Originally Posted by BuckGardner

Get a new song, you are wearing this out and cannot prove anyone ever got Baptized with the Holy Ghost with NOTHING!

You wish to speak from the evidence from silence, we speak what we know and what we see and that is the doctrine of witnesses that make up a doctrine and that refute you here.

ALL ARE TO BE BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY GHOST, you Catholic mongrels are not and nor is the Protestants who pretend they are.

buck,
See mt.7:1-5.

Tell me what you see there?

jeanmarie

[jeanmarie]

Originally Posted by BuckGardner

Get a new song, you are wearing this out and cannot prove anyone ever got Baptized with the Holy Ghost with NOTHING!

You wish to speak from the evidence from silence, we speak what we know and what we see and that is the doctrine of witnesses that make up a doctrine and that refute you here.

ALL ARE TO BE BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY GHOST, you Catholic mongrels are not and nor is the Protestants who pretend they are.

buck,
I am going to give you one of the scariest p***ages in the Bible. I hope you will remember it.
"If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of truth, no sacrifice for sins left."
The reason I'm reminding you of this p***age is, you keep judging other Christians.
We are told by Christ in Mt.7:1-2 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged
.2. For the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the same measure you use , it will be measured to you."
We are commanded by Christ to love one another. See Mt 22:36-39

God bless you as you read his word.
jeanmarie

[jeanmarie]

Originally Posted by kentuckypreacher

I would be glad to affirm that NO ONE is "speaking in tongues" today.

hello kentucky preacher,

Are you referring to glossolalia or real languages?
Many churches today believe in the charismatic gifts. Oneness Pentecostals seem to go to extremes. This is the main topic of debate. Oneness do love the Lord. They spend a lot of time seeking gifts. The Bible teaches we are freely given gifts. it also reads we have different gifts. 1Cor.12;30

God bless,
jean

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by kentuckypreacher

I would be glad to affirm that NO ONE is "speaking in tongues" today.

Why not? Has God taken some gifts away from His Church? I have had many tell me that tongues were given so that the gospel could be spread to all the peoples of the world no matter what their language. The only problem with holding that tongues is always a language the is understood by people of this world at least in some corner of the world is that Paul spoke is an UNKNOWN tongue. And when He spoke in tongues he wasn't speaking to men but to God:

1 Cor 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

While I see that it is far better to teach and preach the word of life than to speak in tongues, speaking in an unknown tongue can't be denied as a Biblical spiritual gift. Even though this gift adds no edification to the Church, it does edifiy those that it has been given.

Personally I have not been given this gift, I will never try to fake or force it. I do see that I can the gift of teaching and offering prophecy (That is forth-telling not for-telling). I believe in all of God's word, even the parts that seem not to have a reason I can understand.. I don't know why God called to have all the peoples of the land killed as Israel came into it to claim their inheritance. Was there a reason. I believe there was but it's not important for me to understand.. Tongues however has a bit of a reason. This gift edifies the speaker.. Is that not a worthy reason? IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Why not? Has God taken some gifts away from His Church?

well..........thats a streach of reason...

By this I mean that just because a guy can claim a gift it does not mean to call that gift into question is equal to calling all gifts into question.

The guy could just be simply wrong about thinking he had a gift thats all....
And pointing out his little error is the correct action for people of faith to take.

So i believe it is the correct action to take that when we see a person making a claim to have a "gift" and we see them use this gift in a manner that is not in agreement with the Text, that we stand up and point out to the person (Or their church when needed) that they have been presumptuous in their claim of a gift.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Paul spoke is an UNKNOWN tongue.

unknown to whom?

unknown to God?.....nope.
But the context is that when you speak in an unknown tongue and praise God, that because the other person listening does not have a clue what you are saying, that the only merit in this action is between the speaker and his Lord....

In other words, the hearer gets no value at all....


So what is an "unknown tongue"?.....well, in my own case, an unknown tongue would be Spanish,,,,,or French......or German etc.

All are very real languages....but yet are totally "unknown" should I be standing right next to another person speaking them.

So if you speak an unknown tongue, (French) and speak very wise and holy words of praise to God, while your efforts to edify me are made moot by the lack of a correct interpretation, you still may get some personal value out of the act of worship.


In a church setting, should you wish to praise god in an unknown tongue (say for example German) and asked for permission to stand up and do so before the whole church, i would only ask that you follow your spoken word with a correct interpretation of what you said so that everyone can judge for themselves the truthfulness of what they have heard.



And this is all Paul is requesting in his teachings on how to do the speaking in tongues in the church....

[Saxon]

The unknown tongue is also unknown to the speaker.

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by James Banta

This gift edifies the speaker.. Is that not a worthy reason? IHS jim

well.........its a lonely reason.

The context of where this type of personal edification is talked about in the Text is such that while there is some good merit for private use of the gift....its not actually the aim of God for this gift to be a private gift.


The gift was aimed at "SPREADING" the good news across the world to different lands and peoples...


This other idea, (that we are to seek the private use of the gift as part of a way to receive personal / private edification) seems to me to be like saying that God wants you to stay home from church so you can clean garage.


Yes, having a clean garage is nice...."For You!"
But it has no effect at all at building up the community of faith in your church....
and your lack of attendance and personal input in your church is more of an issue now beyond any personal gain you may receive by getting all the old paint cans lined up by color in your garage.


Speaking to me in an unknown tongue may edify you, but its worthless to me until I find out what you said...

And if I cant ever find out what you said, then I would suggest you dont bother speaking at all in the first place...

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

well.........its a lonely reason.

The context of where this type of personal edification is talked about in the Text is such that while there is some good merit for private use of the gift....its not actually the aim of God for this gift to be a private gift.


The gift was aimed at "SPREADING" the good news across the world to different lands and peoples...


This other idea, (that we are to seek the private use of the gift as part of a way to receive personal / private edification) seems to me to be like saying that God wants you to stay home from church so you can clean garage.


Yes, having a clean garage is nice...."For You!"
But it has no effect at all at building up the community of faith in your church....
and your lack of attendance and personal input in your church is more of an issue now beyond any personal gain you may receive by getting all the old paint cans lined up by color in your garage.


Speaking to me in an unknown tongue may edify you, but its worthless to me until I find out what you said...

And if I cant ever find out what you said, then I would suggest you dont bother speaking at all in the first place...

I am ONLY saying that is it possible to be edified and still edify the Church.. Have a clean garage and still go to church.. Should we not pray because it builds us up individually? Should we wait until we are among other Christian to do so, so that the whole Body of the Church in edified? It is important to have a personal prayer life, it is important to exercise the gifts we are given whether given to edify the Church or edify the person to whom there were given. We can have a gift from God that is just for us and stand in the Church as an important part of His body there to serve the others. having one doesn't detract from the others.. Paul said that He spoke in an unknown tongue.. In that only he was edified. But Paul went forth and as a central brick among us all building up the Church as a Holy Habitation of Christ.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Should we wait until we are among other Christian to do so, so that the whole Body of the Church in edified?

I believe that the answer that Paul is leading us to is "YES"
And it is also clearly Paul's understanding that unless you know for sure there is going to be a correct translation of what is said in a strange tongue, that you should sit down and shut up.....

Paul clearly is teaching us that this is a gift to the church, and that it has to be used with that aim in mind of "helping spread the Word"....

and that if you cant be sure everyone will understand what is being said, that you should say nothing....

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I believe that the answer that Paul is leading us to is "YES"
And it is also clearly Paul's understanding that unless you know for sure there is going to be a correct translation of what is said in a strange tongue, that you should sit down and shut up.....

Paul clearly is teaching us that this is a gift to the church, and that it has to be used with that aim in mind of "helping spread the Word"....

and that if you cant be sure everyone will understand what is being said, that you should say nothing....

I believe in the teaching of Paul on the subject:

1 Cor 14:2
For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.

No one understands.. No interpretation in this p***age is required.. It is a prayer to God not for men at all..

1 Cor 14:18-19
I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all; however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.

Paul then requires that tongues must be done in order and always be accomplished by an interpretation.. BUT in personal prayer this is NOT the rule.. Paul prayed in and unknown tongue mire than all of us.. In so doing he prayed to God and not to man.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

I think what is called the "Gift of tongues" is just a bunch of pretend..
I have seen first hand (At the ***embly of God church as well as at Bible camp) how people are manipulated into making sounds that via positive reinforcement of others, becomes what the person thinks of as the "gift"

It's not the gift at all, but just the result of people being swept up in a popular manner of doing something.

The real gift itself does appear in a very strong manner in the book of ACTS.
Walter martin used to always remind us that the first use of this gift should help us set the tone for our own use of it.

The real gift was a true "Gift" a true miracle.
Something that was well known and very well tested.
The idea was that the city had Jews from all over the world and by being able to hear the Good News about Jesus taught to them in their own tongue the word spread across the earth quickly.

The modern popular gift is not so tested...
You really don't see anyone showing up at NASA to have their gift confirmed...
...

What we see mostly in the charismatic church is also seen in the 3rd world in many pagan religions, in they they too fall into and under the sway of the effect some communities have over ways of speaking ....

The use of the "trance"
The use of uttering non-words
all are more or less an unusual event (in most places) yet common (in some other places) manner of worshiping whatever thing people happen to be worshiping at the time.

One of the things that i never hear when talking to people about their so-called "gift" is a willingness to be put to the test.

There seems to be no desire of anyone who claims this gift to be really tested......it's like they don't want to know something?

I for one would love to one day see someone who was willing to go before any board of science and willing to have their gift tested to see if it was real or not?

Thus, on the topic, i usually tell people that their gift is "Fake' just to end the conversation right there and save myself a lot of time.
If they disagree, I ask them to prove Im wrong....allow yourself to be tested to see if what you claim is true...

as of yet.....none have accepted such a challenge.

The modern gift is 'learned'....and that right there should tell you about the true nature of what you are dealing with.
It's a learned behavior.
There are many different ways it is taught to people....examples, prompting, practice, even priming the pump, etc,
But the true gift in the Bible is not a learned behavior.....

It came from heaven...not via a AOG Bible study cl*** on gifts.