The Gift of Tongues

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

I fear for all like TDM who are comfortable with closing the entrance to the Spirit. Quote(MichaellS)
I put it this way, I fear for all like xyz who are comfortable with not gaurding against the entrance of evil spirits.

My brother who is weak in the faith and unlearned accepts you, as do I, but for some reason he is more prone to listen to you on this than he will me. He wants to know what are you telling him to do with the above information? Since he is aware that God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33), nor does my brother tie into uncertainty as the Lord said not to do (Matthew 5:37, James 5:12). So I ask you Hair, please help settle this issue for my weaker brother being as specific as possible. What are you telling him to do with the above information?

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by MichaellS

My brother who is weak in the faith and unlearned accepts you, as do I, but for some reason he is more prone to listen to you on this than he will me. He wants to know what are you telling him to do with the above information? Since he is aware that God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33), nor does my brother tie into uncertainty as the Lord said not to do (Matthew 5:37, James 5:12). So I ask you Hair, please help settle this issue for my weaker brother being as specific as possible. What are you telling him to do with the above information?

Just warning you to try the spirit. Make sure anything the spirit tells you conforms to the Holy Bible, and not just what you are I want from the spirit. A good book on this is written by David Wilkerson, on why he left the charismatic movement.
The same things he experienced I also saw in the movement. So what I am saying is be very careful with it.

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Just warning you to try the spirit. Make sure anything the spirit tells you conforms to the Holy Bible, and not just what you are I want from the spirit. A good book on this is written by David Wilkerson, on why he left the charismatic movement.
The same things he experienced I also saw in the movement. So what I am saying is be very careful with it.

Okay buddy. Yes, I have heard him from broadcast dating back to the 80's.

May I ask, what are say three of the top areas of his defense against these things?

God bless all.

[disciple]

Originally Posted by MichaellS

Okay buddy. Yes, I have heard him from broadcast dating back to the 80's.

May I ask, what are say three of the top areas of his defense against these things?

God bless all.

I think he summed it up himself with this statement, "Anything that cannot be found in Scripture has to be rejected outright--totally rejected."

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by disciple

I think he summed it up himself with this statement, "Anything that cannot be found in Scripture has to be rejected outright--totally rejected."

Good heavens yes. And this is no small area to belittle without cause. My point is what is that cause? With regard to your point, what is it that has been added?

God Bless!

[disciple]

Originally Posted by MichaellS

Good heavens yes. And this is no small area to belittle without cause. My point is what is that cause? With regard to your point, what is it that has been added?

God Bless!

Hi Mike,

Much false doctrine has been added. I dare say that you could go into any church on any Sunday and find something un-biblical, either unintentionally in the form of some tradition or purposely for a variety of reasons. And while there are not many claiming to be prophets today there are plenty of false teachers who are very good at what they do. Peter sums it up nicely.

2 Peter 2:1-3
“But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber”.

The primary motive behind such false teaching is greed. They do not hesitate to take hurtful advantage of their followers in order to enrich themselves. Their words promise much, but their ability to deliver is nil, therefore they are properly accused of exploiting by deceit. Their teaching is flattery; their ambitions are financial; their conscience must be dulled, and their aim is deception. Obvious to some, irresistible to many.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by disciple

Hi Mike,

Much false doctrine has been added. I dare say that you could go into any church on any Sunday and find something un-biblical, either unintentionally in the form of some tradition or purposely for a variety of reasons. And while there are not many claiming to be prophets today there are plenty of false teachers who are very good at what they do. Peter sums it up nicely.

2 Peter 2:1-3
“But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber”.

The primary motive behind such false teaching is greed. They do not hesitate to take hurtful advantage of their followers in order to enrich themselves. Their words promise much, but their ability to deliver is nil, therefore they are properly accused of exploiting by deceit. Their teaching is flattery; their ambitions are financial; their conscience must be dulled, and their aim is deception. Obvious to some, irresistible to many.

It is one thing it say, "it is my opinion." Quite another to say. " The Lord laid it on my heart to say....ect." Or the Spirit came to me and said, "This or that."
If at any time we say the Spirit or the Lord told us something and we later find out we were wrong, that makes us a false prophet or teacher. I have yet to hear Pat Roberson or Hal Lindsay confess their false prophecy or teachings, have you?

[disciple]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

It is one thing it say, "it is my opinion." Quite another to say. " The Lord laid it on my heart to say....ect." Or the Spirit came to me and said, "This or that."
If at any time we say the Spirit or the Lord told us something and we later find out we were wrong, that makes us a false prophet or teacher. I have yet to hear Pat Roberson or Hal Lindsay confess their false prophecy or teachings, have you?

Hi RFH,
I have never heard anyone on TV or radio admit such a thing, usually their out is to say that the viewers were lacking in faith. We must remember though that most of them are prophets for profit (sorry) and prideful also. In my opinion we have no need of "foretellers" today, what we need are "forthtellers". But false teaching is a very big business and "Christian" self help books are everywhere. Christians should realize that everyone does not speak in tongues, everyday is not Friday, and we can't just name it and claim it. Reality is that we are all parts of the same body with Christ as the head and can do nothing without Him.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by disciple

Hi RFH,
I have never heard anyone on TV or radio admit such a thing, usually their out is to say that the viewers were lacking in faith. We must remember though that most of them are prophets for profit (sorry) and prideful also. In my opinion we have no need of "foretellers" today, what we need are "forthtellers". But false teaching is a very big business and "Christian" self help books are everywhere. Christians should realize that everyone does not speak in tongues, everyday is not Friday, and we can't just name it and claim it. Reality is that we are all parts of the same body with Christ as the head and can do nothing without Him.

You will never hear it, ever! I remember soon after the fall of the Soviet Union, Hal Lindsay, making the statment in front of a large audience that he predicted the fall of the Soviet Union. I saw the look on many of the faces out in the audience, many were very surpised he said it, or better shocked. He never predicted the fall of the Saviet Union, he saw the commies in the final battle at Armagaddon, not the sad weak, and wittering collapsing of an USSR.

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by disciple

I have never heard anyone on TV or radio admit such a thing, usually their out is to say that the viewers were lacking in faith. We must remember though that most of them are prophets for profit (sorry) and prideful also. In my opinion we have no need of "foretellers" today, what we need are "forthtellers". But false teaching is a very big business and "Christian" self help books are everywhere. Christians should realize that everyone does not speak in tongues, everyday is not Friday, and we can't just name it and claim it. Reality is that we are all parts of the same body with Christ as the head and can do nothing without Him.

Believe me Disciple, I don’t wish to antagonize, but is there an area of specific reason you see we should attach the below warning to the implementation of the gift to be able to decipher man’s craftiness not wrought in the truth?

Much false doctrine has been added. I dare say that you could go into any church on any Sunday and find something un-biblical, either unintentionally in the form of some tradition or purposely for a variety of reasons. And while there are not many claiming to be prophets today there are plenty of false teachers who are very good at what they do. Peter sums it up nicely.

2 Peter 2:1-3
“But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber”.

The primary motive behind such false teaching is greed. They do not hesitate to take hurtful advantage of their followers in order to enrich themselves. Their words promise much, but their ability to deliver is nil, therefore they are properly accused of exploiting by deceit. Their teaching is flattery; their ambitions are financial; their conscience must be dulled, and their aim is deception. Obvious to some, irresistible to many.

A fine statement. Excellent warning to be equipped with! These such p***ages are so very vital for covering our spiritual backs that if one would say seldom have I ever seen this in the Church these days, then he might not know the hour we live in. I too remember the feelings within when I saw it happen. Like some creepy m*** delusion that causes sadness for them.

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

I have yet to hear Pat Roberson or Hal Lindsay confess their false prophecy or teachings, have you?

Actually no. They know they would suffer excruciatingly. Although I did see a mention on behalf of Hal by a Christian network head once. Only once.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by MichaellS

Okay buddy. Yes, I have heard him from broadcast dating back to the 80's.

May I ask, what are say three of the top areas of his defense against these things?

God bless all.

First, was the spirit of lust. I saw this too while working in the religious side of the business. No religious faith is immune to sexual lust, but in the pentecostal, charismatic movement it was in overdrive. There are charismatic leaders who make Joseph Smith jr. seem like a unich. The charismatic movement of the 1980s had more bleach blonde hootchie mamas than the Las Vagas strip.
Second, woman preachers. David gave an example like this; in the Holy Bible we have The Father, Then The Son, and then man, in that order. In the Church man is over the woman in the same way man is over the wife in the family unit.
If you think about it we Christians never think of putting man over Jesus who is the head of the Church, but in today's christian churches many have women pastors. This puts women over man, in the same way we are putting man above God.
Both are wrong and I believe as did David Wilkerson this open the door to evil spirits with-in the churches til this day.
Opening women into the ministery had lead to opening the door to *****s into the ministery, so what is next?
I can't think of an third reason right now..

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

First, was the spirit of lust. I saw this too while working in the religious side of the business. No religious faith is immune to sexual lust, but in the pentecostal, charismatic movement it was in overdrive. There are charismatic leaders who make Joseph Smith jr. seem like a unich. The charismatic movement of the 1980s had more bleach blonde hootchie mamas than the Las Vagas strip.
Second, woman preachers. David gave an example like this; in the Holy Bible we have The Father, Then The Son, and then man, in that order. In the Church man is over the woman in the same way man is over the wife in the family unit.
If you think about it we Christians never think of putting man over Jesus who is the head of the Church, but in today's christian churches many have women pastors. This puts women over man, in the same way we are putting man above God.
Both are wrong and I believe as did David Wilkerson this open the door to evil spirits with-in the churches til this day.
Opening women into the ministery had lead to opening the door to *****s into the ministery, so what is next?
I can't think of an third reason right now..

Point no.1.

Well then, that is what the ability of speaking in tongues is thought to be, , a movement of lust? Is that what we have to conclude from the hireling response of a few Pentecostal leaders that since they are tied to the liberties of exercising this function in public and also walk improperly that tongues is to be lumped together with it?

Is this what you would want to be understood?

Of course, I’m sure you would have us to be more completely understanding that any act of sin by any member of oversight in any Christ centered facility is to be rooted out.

Point no. 2.

Well Hair, while I won’t say it is synonymous across the spectrum of Pentecostal churches, we just might have a near epidemic of error on this. While the Episcopalian/Anglican sect have led the open charge on this, what I have witnessed is the quiet treatment that surfaces in Pentecostal spheres is because they do tend to sport the informal oversight. When that is questioned as I have openly before elders, you may not get to the bottom of anything, only bristling.

For instance; back about 1987 in OKC, my daughter won the most scriptures memorized award for Sunday School which upon receiving the award she was requested to say a word of thanks to our crowd of about 4500. I refused to allow this, to which the pastor publically held the question without mentioning my name, “I don’t know why”, while the other girls were allowed to speak for other awards.

This is another subject for another thread which also carries stipulations both positions will resist.

God bless.