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Thread: The Gift of Tongues

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelphos View Post
    Adelphos:

    Actually, one cannot prove it was congregational (that is, everyone speaking in tongues at once). The context was specifically about individual prayer in tongues (which I demonstrated already in my post about prayer in tongues), not about corporate worship in tongues (which you have not proven the text is dealing with at all, but have merely DECLARED it so - which is not sound exegesis, btw).
    I know it's been awhile, but, here goes...
    The p***age in question is 1 Cor. 14:28, and it states "...in the church" and you don't think the context is clearly congregational?
    TD

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdidymas View Post
    I know it's been awhile, but, here goes...
    The p***age in question is 1 Cor. 14:28, and it states "...in the church" and you don't think the context is clearly congregational?
    TD
    It is so easy to dis-prove the ability to speak in tongues and give translation as is done in pentecoastal churches. I wonder why they still attempt to try it. However as 1 Cor; 14:28 reads, it should be done in a congregtional setting. It is verse 29, that every tongue prac***ioner runs from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    It is so easy to dis-prove the ability to speak in tongues and give translation as is done in pentecoastal churches. I wonder why they still attempt to try it. However as 1 Cor; 14:28 reads, it should be done in a congregtional setting. It is verse 29, that every tongue prac***ioner runs from.
    You're absolutely right. Way back in the days when I was caught up in that hubub, no one dared to question it, much less judge it! (However, in 20 yrs I did hear it judged 2 times). People were more in fear than wisdom.
    TD

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdidymas View Post
    You're absolutely right. Way back in the days when I was caught up in that hubub, no one dared to question it, much less judge it! (However, in 20 yrs I did hear it judged 2 times). People were more in fear than wisdom.
    TD
    Just one of many of life's lessons. Religion does that to us; we're only human. This is why we will keep searching, but never open the door to truth, it is just too painful.

  5. #105
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
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    A very gallant try to the both of you in picturesque WM fashion as far as receiving the baptism in the “Spirit” goes. But you would still be too late to convince me even before I received it. The truth stands easily, clearly self confirming lest you havn't done the necessary study. You can always change though you know. It’s always available for those who are “afar off” (Acts 2:39), meaning throughout time.

    How is it you have taken on a carnal response in your journey? Did you not take the time to self "edify" with the gift?

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaellS View Post
    A very gallant try to the both of you in picturesque WM fashion as far as receiving the baptism in the “Spirit” goes. But you would still be too late to convince me even before I received it. The truth stands easily, clearly self confirming lest you havn't done the necessary study. You can always change though you know. It’s always available for those who are “afar off” (Acts 2:39), meaning throughout time.

    How is it you have taken on a carnal response in your journey? Did you not take the time to self "edify" with the gift?
    HUh, what?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    HUh, what?
    Well, I’ll tell ya. What I’m seeing is commentary revolving more around reproach for the gift than knowing how to adorn it out of faith. Tdidymas’ 20yr run sounds impressive till, ,

    I’ll ask again, if you ever exercised the ability, did you take the time to self "edify" with the gift?

    If you would rather not discuss any longer, Okay then.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaellS View Post
    Well, I’ll tell ya. What I’m seeing is commentary revolving more around reproach for the gift than knowing how to adorn it out of faith. Tdidymas’ 20yr run sounds impressive till, ,

    I’ll ask again, if you ever exercised the ability, did you take the time to self "edify" with the gift?

    If you would rather not discuss any longer, Okay then.
    What exactly do you mean? Can you explain in detail?
    TD

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaellS View Post
    Well, I’ll tell ya. What I’m seeing is commentary revolving more around reproach for the gift than knowing how to adorn it out of faith. Tdidymas’ 20yr run sounds impressive till, ,

    I’ll ask again, if you ever exercised the ability, did you take the time to self "edify" with the gift?

    If you would rather not discuss any longer, Okay then.
    The one and only thing I do is not play around with the Holy Spirit of the Holy Bible. I don't exercise anything God of the Holy Bible doesn't bless me with. Although I am sure I miss many an apportunity to do so. That is my missed blessing and no one else.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    The one and only thing I do is not play around with the Holy Spirit of the Holy Bible. I don't exercise anything God of the Holy Bible doesn't bless me with. Although I am sure I miss many an apportunity to do so. That is my missed blessing and no one else.
    You have a criteria of what tongues is not? Seriously, I am quite interested in God's peoples position on this.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdidymas View Post
    What exactly do you mean? Can you explain in detail?
    TD
    Tdidymas, I find it hard to return the request under the weight of your involvement with the subject. I’m thinking you could answer that sufficiently enough as have others here.

    So let’s start with a painfully obvious question; to what are you referring please?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaellS View Post
    Tdidymas, I find it hard to return the request under the weight of your involvement with the subject. I’m thinking you could answer that sufficiently enough as have others here.

    So let’s start with a painfully obvious question; to what are you referring please?
    I don't get it. I thought you said you wanted to discuss it. My question is in ref to your question: "did you take the time to self "edify" with the gift?" I'm just asking you what do you mean. This is a vague question. Can you explain to me the details of what you are talking about? What do you mean by "self 'edify'"?
    TD

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdidymas View Post
    What do you mean by "self 'edify'"? TD
    Hello tdidymas,

    “One who speaks in a tongue edifies [builds up] himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.” (1 Corinthians 14:4)

    Though I realize the preferred benefit of prophesy for the body, could it not be the gentle persuasion for the mind to lessen the singular use to edification, seeing that preferred “rather” (1 Cor.14:5, 1 Cor.14:1) to prophesy in place twice? There is nothing to indicate either requirement nor devaluing of the gift for the individual’s private use. Again, since we are exhorted to “desire spiritual gifts” (V1), nowhere are we told to run cool on private edification.

    The overwhelming occasion is to highlight the noted preference to the whole, but where in comment is the highlighting benefit to the individual in private to God? In use, and I mean “patience of the saints” daily use and unyielding pattern to investigate this element, would be the end result of building oneself up. Yes, his understanding is unfruitful. But I think that is the whole point. If you build up (edify) without understand yet directly in the Spirit, then God gets the glory when you begin to exhaust that ability He the Spirit brings to urge.

    I have some premonition that you could add to this, and not so much disagree. Could I be right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaellS View Post
    Hello tdidymas,

    “One who speaks in a tongue edifies [builds up] himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.” (1 Corinthians 14:4)

    Though I realize the preferred benefit of prophesy for the body, could it not be the gentle persuasion for the mind to lessen the singular use to edification, seeing that preferred “rather” (1 Cor.14:5, 1 Cor.14:1) to prophesy in place twice? There is nothing to indicate either requirement nor devaluing of the gift for the individual’s private use. Again, since we are exhorted to “desire spiritual gifts” (V1), nowhere are we told to run cool on private edification.

    The overwhelming occasion is to highlight the noted preference to the whole, but where in comment is the highlighting benefit to the individual in private to God? In use, and I mean “patience of the saints” daily use and unyielding pattern to investigate this element, would be the end result of building oneself up. Yes, his understanding is unfruitful. But I think that is the whole point. If you build up (edify) without understand yet directly in the Spirit, then God gets the glory when you begin to exhaust that ability He the Spirit brings to urge.

    I have some premonition that you could add to this, and not so much disagree. Could I be right?
    Your argument appears to be right in theory, except for one statement you appear reversed from what I would see as a logical argument:
    In use, and I mean “patience of the saints” daily use and unyielding pattern to investigate this element, would be the end result of building oneself up.
    It seems to me that edification should be (in theory) the result of daily usage and "unyielding pattern to investigate this element." Yet your argument is reversed of this. Why is this? If you are trying to say that "building oneself up" is the activity leading toward the result of edification, then your argument doesn't follow either, since those two items is the activity itself. So your argument appears circular. Like saying "the activity of self-edification results in self-edification."

    So then, let me be more specific in my question:
    How exactly are you edified? What is your tongue-talking doing for you? What is the fruit of it?
    TD

  15. #115
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    I think it is important to remember what a gift is. I'd take any gift God of the Holy Bible gives me. Although I'd probability not use it to the best of my ability. I could only wish Christians used God's gifts to better serve Him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdidymas View Post
    Your argument appears to be right in theory, except for one statement you appear reversed from what I would see as a logical argument:

    It seems to me that edification should be (in theory) the result of daily usage and "unyielding pattern to investigate this element." Yet your argument is reversed of this. Why is this? If you are trying to say that "building oneself up" is the activity leading toward the result of edification, then your argument doesn't follow either, since those two items is the activity itself. So your argument appears circular. Like saying "the activity of self-edification results in self-edification."

    So then, let me be more specific in my question:
    How exactly are you edified? What is your tongue-talking doing for you? What is the fruit of it?
    TD
    Thank you for the correction. Would this correct the spirit of the message? “would be a sound decision for building oneself up.”

    What is it doing for me? I would have to forward that question to the Lord’s own reasoning. How am I to know what He would cl***ify as unprepared territory to bless if I wasn't involved with the gift? If overly concerned with what you will wind up with, keep in mind that p***age in Luke.

    9“So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10“For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened. 11“Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? 12“Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he? 13“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?” (Luke 11:9-13)

    It would be difficult to separate the gift from the Giver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaellS View Post
    Thank you for the correction. Would this correct the spirit of the message? “would be a sound decision for building oneself up.”
    Regarding this, I used to think that experimentation (I take it this is what you are describing in "unyielding pattern to investigate this element") with "this element" was the right thing to do. But later I found out that the soundest decision for building up oneself is to study the Word. It tells me that it is the fruit of an action that is the measurement of its godliness.

    What is it doing for me? I would have to forward that question to the Lord’s own reasoning. How am I to know what He would cl***ify as unprepared territory to bless if I wasn't involved with the gift? If overly concerned with what you will wind up with, keep in mind that p***age in Luke.
    This looks like an evasion. I'm just trying to find out how exactly you are defining self-edification as a result of the exercise of tongues. Are you trying to tell me that your self-edification is an intangible unknown to you?

    9“So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10“For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened. 11“Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? 12“Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he? 13“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?” (Luke 11:9-13)

    It would be difficult to separate the gift from the Giver.
    Again, I believe the Bible is telling me to measure a gift by its fruit. If you cannot give me some tangible way of discerning the fruit of your tongue-talking, then how am I to know where your gift came from? Does not the scripture say "Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge"?

    The trouble with most Pentecostals I talk to is that they run away when their actions are called into evaluation. I hope you won't do the same.
    TD

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdidymas View Post
    This looks like an evasion.
    Really? You want me to begin to exalt by unlawful speech the measure of what the flesh has seen? Not interested in painting myself with that. Now there is something to show concern over. Yes, it’s true, God is “a rewarder” (Hebrews 11:6), and if God is a rewarder, why is it you think this is still some making of my own devise? Something I determine?

    Does not the scripture say "Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge"?
    Sure it does. A detailed list for it’s use in and for the Church, and another for it’s use in private and for unbelieving. But I now wonder as to how much you have been made aware of these things? They are rather fundamental items you are requesting from me.

    I would like to continue if you will

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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaellS View Post
    Really? You want me to begin to exalt by unlawful speech the measure of what the flesh has seen? Not interested in painting myself with that. Now there is something to show concern over. Yes, it’s true, God is “a rewarder” (Hebrews 11:6), and if God is a rewarder, why is it you think this is still some making of my own devise? Something I determine?



    Sure it does. A detailed list for it’s use in and for the Church, and another for it’s use in private and for unbelieving. But I now wonder as to how much you have been made aware of these things? They are rather fundamental items you are requesting from me.

    I would like to continue if you will
    Yet more evasion, since you have not answered my simple question of what even you call "fundamental items." If I am requesting fundamental items, then why can't you explain it?

    In regard to your accusation that I want you to "exalt by unlawful speech the measure of what the flesh has seen" - I think you better cite the scripture reference that applies to my question, otherwise you are bearing false witness against your neighbor, since you have the audacity to judge my intention.

    I am asking simple questions with the purpose of discerning where your gift is coming from. If you refuse to answer, then I must conclude that your gift is illegitimate. Are you afraid to answer?

    How is your tongue-talking edifying you? Please explain in detail.
    TD

  20. #120
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    What is the difference between speaking in tongues and God's written Word?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaellS View Post
    Really? You want me to begin to exalt by unlawful speech the measure of what the flesh has seen? Not interested in painting myself with that. Now there is something to show concern over. Yes, it’s true, God is “a rewarder” (Hebrews 11:6), and if God is a rewarder, why is it you think this is still some making of my own devise? Something I determine?

    Sure it does. A detailed list for it’s use in and for the Church, and another for it’s use in private and for unbelieving. But I now wonder as to how much you have been made aware of these things? They are rather fundamental items you are requesting from me.

    I would like to continue if you will
    I'd like to add this to this thread: "tr.v. ed·i·fied, ed·i·fy·ing, ed·i·fies. To instruct especially so as to encourage intellectual, moral, or spiritual improvement."

    Given the definition above it seems more like private tongues is for encouraging one to continue in learning, staying moral and improving in a spiritual way.

    I think T is asking in what ways have you seen the edification build you up, help you resist temptation (synonymous with keeping moral) or improve in a spiritual manner not about revealing anything seen in visions which I think you are referring to as 'unlawful speech'.

    If I am wrong, forggedabout it
    "Said I'm not what I ought to be, but I'm better, better than I used to be, I'm gettin better all the time" - Blind Boys of Alabama Ephesians 4:22-24 NASB ..."that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth"

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    Entirely possible MacG, and I’m thinking does indeed apply. I surely don’t want to frustrate the question T bring either. But our lack of being unable to express the knowledge of what God does and brings doesn’t stop with what we don’t know, but what we can’t say. How?

    We come to this table with only the tools of comprehension we have. Things that would come my way I did finally learn are not so cut and dried. Back about 84-85’, I just came off a 2 ½ day total fast. While I cannot say for you what revelation God was to bring me concerning a particular visual gift during service, (believe me, I tried testify of it, and God showed me it was His doing to tell), I learned it was directed at a number of people during service, including Pastors and congregants. But you know how it is with these things when they begin to call up their charge, “show us a sign”.

    But this is the height of only one area of development for me. Again, cut and dried no overlap for the Spirit to enable “severally as He will”? Forget it. But if I must glory in the flesh, God did show me my own intentions were a bit stuck on self.

    Tdidymas, since I’m sure you would agree that with God, nothing is impossible, that would also have to include the paranormal occurrences. Have you ever seen it play out? Have you ever seen how people respond to it? Quite entertaining is to say a little proud. The jitters, head-dropping disbelief isn’t so remarkable as it is that God would fashion a gift so close and someone who sought so something so close to seeking a response (“sign”), though I did not know what that might entail, but something He did honor.

    How close are you to my earlier intent?

    Partners, I do not wish to be so brief, but time isn't esp. ample for me presently. I hope to continue, ,

    God bless.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    What is the difference between speaking in tongues and God's written Word?
    There’s a thought RFH!! But isn’t it dependent on the handler?

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaellS View Post
    There’s a thought RFH!! But isn’t it dependent on the handler?
    The correct answer is. There is no difference between the two. Both gift of tongues and God's written Word are equal, and should be treated with respect. The interpretation of tongues must be recorded and printed in God's Holy Bible at the end of Revelation. If would go something like this. If I received a message from God in the form of tongue, and if it was properly interpreted then the next book in the Holy Bible goes something like this. The Book of RealFakeHair; chapter 1. verse 1.Thus saith the Lord......

  25. #125
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    Originally Posted by MichaellS: "I would like to continue if you will"
    Are you still contemplating the answer?
    (Key word is fruit)

    While you're thinking about it, here's another like-minded question for you:

    2. How is your tongue-talking edifying others? Please explain in detail.
    TD
    Last edited by tdidymas; 08-23-2013 at 11:35 AM. Reason: clarification

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