No A-Z; either 100% T or 100% F

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

The thief was clearly not with Jesus in Paradise which equates to salvation according to evangelical Protestant thinking.

Did the thief on the cross go to Paradise with Jesus? This is a simple question.

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I am not going to continue to feed your bad behavior by taking the bait to go down a rabbit hole. Please address the question. Here is the question again.

Mesenja,do you believe the Bible? Was the thief on the cross in Paradise with Jesus as Jesus promised?

Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

You have repeatedly made false accusations against me and when I try to set the record straight you cry foul and say this is bad behavior and diversionary tactics. Now you are insinuating that I do not believe that the Bible is inspired writ because I dare to question that it's not inerrant.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

You have repeatedly made false accusations against me and when I try to set the record straight you cry foul and say this is bad behavior and diversionary tactics. Now you are insinuating that I do not believe that the Bible is inspired writ because I dare to question that it's not inerrant.

Did the thief on the cross go to Paradise with Jesus? This is a simple question.

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Did the thief on the cross go to Paradise with Jesus? This is a simple question.

However I've already answered this. Go and read my previous posts and find out the answer for yourself.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

Go and read my previous posts and find out the answer for yourself.

Did the thief on the cross go to Paradise with Jesus? This is a simple question.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Did the thief on the cross go to Paradise with Jesus? This is a simple question.

There are no simple questions or answers in Mormonlandism.
Try this one; why are sacred oaths secret?

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

I will only deal with your critique of Blake Ostler's comments on Calvinism. It should be posted sometime next week if not earlier.

Does this mean you're gonna IGNORE Romans 9 which demonstrates Ostler's ERROR?

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

Does this mean you're gonna IGNORE Romans 9 which demonstrates Ostler's ERROR?

Blake Oslter wasn't trying to give a doctrinal refutation of Calvinism. Therefore no I am not going to deal with Romans 9. I've been there done that with Billy Ray. I'm just not interested.

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Did the thief on the cross go to Paradise with Jesus? This is a simple question.

If you can't bother to read my post which answered this question it is not my problem.

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by theway

Tertullian, or any of the other Christian fathers. Almost to a man stated that the meaning of John 3:5 is that;to be born of the water means water baptism,and that it is essential for salvation. You seem perfectly willing to throw them under the bus,just to hang onto your misinterpretation You should know by now I get everything i post from Orthodox Christian sites. Do they hate the Bible as well?

ST. JUSTIN MARTYR (inter A.D. 148-155)

Whoever is convinced and believes that what they are taught and told by us is the truth,and professes to be able to live accordingly, is instructed to pray and to beseech God in fasting for the remission of their former sins,while we pray and fast with them. Then they are led by us to a place where there is water;and there they are reborn in the same kind of rebirth in which we ourselves were reborn:In the name of God,the Lord and Father of all,and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit,they receive the washing with water. For Christ said,"Unless you be reborn,you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." ...The reason for doing this,we have learned from the Apostles. (The First Apology 61)

ST. THEOPHILUS OF ANTIOCH (c. A.D. 181)

Moreover,those things which were created from the waters were blessed by God,so that this might also be a sign that men would at a future time receive repentance and remission of sins through water and the bath of regeneration -- all who proceed to the truth and are born again and receive a blessing from God. (To Autolycus 2:16)

ST. IRENAEUS (c. A.D. 190)

"And [Naaman] dipped himself...seven times in the Jordan" [2 Kings 5:14]. It was not for nothing that Naaman of old,when suffering from leprosy,was purified upon his being baptized,but [this served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin,we are made clean,by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord,from our old transgressions,being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes,even as the Lord has declared:"Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit,he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Fragment 34)

TERTULLIAN (inter A.D. 200-206)

...no one can attain salvation without Baptism,especially in view of the declaration of the Lord,who says:"Unless a man shall be born of water,he shall not have life." (On Baptism 12:1)

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

If you can't bother to read my post which answered this question it is not my problem.

Did the thief on the cross go to Paradise with Jesus? This is a simple question.

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Did the thief on the cross go to Paradise with Jesus? This is a simple question.

Originally Posted by Billyray

Luke 23:43

Jesus answered him,"I tell you the truth,today you will be with me in paradise." This verse clearly states that the thief will be with Jesus that day in paradise. You disagree with the Bible on this point,correct? Why?

Originally Posted by Mesenja

The reason for this being that it disagrees with what he told Mary after his bodily resurrection from the tomb.

Now if you don't know my answer to your question then your just not trying hard enough.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

Now if you don't know my answer to your question then your just not trying hard enough.

Did the thief on the cross go to Paradise with Jesus?

Yes or No?

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Did the thief on the cross go to Paradise with Jesus? This is a simple question.

Originally Posted by Billyray

Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him,"I tell you the truth,today you will be with me in paradise." This verse clearly states that the thief will be with Jesus that day in paradise. You disagree with the Bible on this point,correct? Why?

Originally Posted by Mesenja

The reason for this being that it disagrees with what he told Mary after his bodily resurrection from the tomb.

Originally Posted by Billyray

Did the thief on the cross go to Paradise with Jesus? Yes or No?

Originally Posted by Mesenja

Now if you don't know my answer to your question then your just not trying hard enough.

What do you think my position is Einstein if I disagree with the translation of Luke 23:43? Put your thinking cap on Billy and try real hard to connect the dots.

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Did the thief on the cross go to Paradise with Jesus? This is a simple question.

What part of the thief was clearly not with Jesus in Paradise do you not understand?

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I did not include the first sentence but the second sentence was word for word. In fact I copied it and pasted it so it was completely accurate. Instead of belly aching about me misquoting you why don't you do something novel and tell us what your position is--which I have asked you over and over again.

How big of you for quoting my second sentence word for word so that it is completely accurate. However this is meaningless as there is no proper context of what I said without the first sentence. When you deliberately twist my words again like the good Christian that you are I will in future stop my belly aching about you misquoting me.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

What part of the thief was clearly not with Jesus in Paradise do you not understand?

Mesenja says the thief on the cross was NOT with Jesus in Paradise

Bible says that the thief "will be with me in paradise."

Why should I believe you over the Bible?

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Mesenja says the thief on the cross was NOT with Jesus in Paradise. Bible says that the thief "will be with me in paradise." Why should I believe you over the Bible?

Except that Jesus said to Mary "Touch me not;for I am not yet ascended to my Father:but go to my brethren,and say unto them,I ascend unto my Father,and your Father;and to my God, and your God."

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

Except that Jesus said to Mary "Touch me not;for I am not yet ascended to my Father:but go to my brethren,and say unto them,I ascend unto my Father,and your Father;and to my God, and your God."

Why do you ***ume that the righteous spirits in paradise are with the Father prior to the ascension of Christ?

[Sentinus]

Hey Messenja your truly loving and kind Christian at***ude is clearly on display in this thread, no doubt your father in heaven is pleased with your constant ribbing and insulting tone.. Way to represent, Monson would be proud.. You sir are part of the problem and not any part of the solution.

Regards,
Sentinus

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

Blake Oslter wasn't trying to give a doctrinal refutation of Calvinism. Therefore no I am not going to deal with Romans 9. I've been there done that with Billy Ray. I'm just not interested.

ROFLMOL, M.

We all KNOW why you're not going to deal with Romans 9. The text can't be twisted to agree with Mormon theology.

[Father_JD]

Baptism is an outward sign of an inward grace, jeff. Do you really think water can "wash away sins"?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

ROFLMOL, M.

We all KNOW why you're not going to deal with Romans 9. The text can't be twisted to agree with Mormon theology.

I certainly did not go over Romans 9 with Mesenja--that is a complete fabrication on his/her part.

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I certainly did not go over Romans 9 with Mesenja--that is a complete fabrication on his/her part.

I've spoon-fed a line by line exegesis for M and other LDS on this forum several times.

They run away every time, Billyray.

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

ROFLMOL,Mesenja.

We all KNOW why you're not going to deal with Romans 9. The text can't be twisted to agree with Mormon theology.

I am glad that you feel comfort in the false ***urance that the New Testament writings of Paul support your false doctrine. If you want to take this line of the thread off topic I will gladly do so but at a latter time. At the moment I am interested in debating some of the theoretical and philosophical problems of Calvinism that Ostler brought up.