No A-Z; either 100% T or 100% F

[Vlad III]

Originally Posted by James Banta

What is so hard about this.. 1/2 + 1/2 = 1 100% of the water in the gl***es become sewer water.. Unless you know of a way to separate the clear from the impure? IHS jim

What about 98% pure and 2% impure?

What happens in your opinion?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Vlad III

Billy,

I think the point being made is you agree that it may not even be possible that someone can be right on every issue about Jesus. But people like James Banta have said that if you have one thing wrong then you have tainted the whole picture, basically. That's the OP of this thread.

So it boils down to this question: What % of things can a person have wrong about the Biblical Jesus that would make them no longer worshipping that Jesus?

Why is it so hard just to believe that the scripture teaches about Jesus..
1. That He is God and that He is man..
2. That He created ALL things..
3. That He is the I AM
4. That He is Wonderful
5. The Counclior
6. The mighty God
7. The everlasting Father
8. The Prince of peace
9. That He is from Everlasting to Everlasting
10. The Savior and Redeamer of the world.
11. That He created our spirits within us
12. That He, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are the one true God
13. That no other God was or ever will be formed, He is unique..

I am sure there are other attributes the the Bible teaches about Him and I acept them all.. How many do mormons accept as the truth about Him? How many false statemets like He is our heavenly brother and the brother of Satan as well, or that He didn't create our spirits at all do you add to the list. How many do you remove?

I would say that a Christian holds ALL that the Bible teaches of Jesus to be true.. If they don't they are not Christians, and not children of God.. 100% true or 100% false! It is not 50% BY 50%.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Vlad III

What about 98% pure and 2% impure?

What happens in your opinion?

If what you believe about God is 98% true congrats! You only have to swallow a gl*** with 98% pure water and only 2% sewer water.. That's much better don't you think? YUCK!!! Sorry 100% pure or 100% filth. There is no middle.. IHS jim

[Vlad III]

Originally Posted by James Banta

If what you believe about God is 98% true congrats! You only have to swallow a gl*** with 98% pure water and only 2% sewer water.. That's much better don't you think? YUCK!!! Sorry 100% pure or 100% filth. There is no middle.. IHS jim

And that's where you and your buddy Billyray are at odds, since he is of the opinion that nobody has 100% perfect beliefs about Jesus.

But we are glad to see that you do.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Vlad III

And that's where you and your buddy Billyray are at odds, since he is of the opinion that nobody has 100% perfect beliefs about Jesus.

But we are glad to see that you do.

Ask him again only ask if he holds to what the Bible teaches about Jesus 100%.. You will find that He is saying there is no way for the human finite mind to understand the perfecttion of God but we an believe and understand what the Bible tell us, and we can do that 100%.. You are just taking up the twist again so that you can win a argument.. Sorry but it is not in you to win an argument about he purity of faith in God's word as compared to the pick and choose agreement to it found in mormonism.. IHS jim

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by James Banta

What is so hard about this.. 1/2 + 1/2 = 1 100% of the water in the gl***es become sewer water.. Unless you know of a way to separate the clear from the impure? IHS jim

What is so hard about explaining why Billy believes that "everyone would like to think that they are right about every issue concerning Jesus but this may not be possible" and your belief in half truths added to truth being ****ogous to "a gl*** half filled with pure water and then the other half is fill with sewer water. So it is with half truths. They are nothing more that 100% lies." Oh and James are you using the New Math?

[Vlad III]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Ask him again only ask if he holds to what the Bible teaches about Jesus 100%.. You will find that He is saying there is no way for the human finite mind to understand the perfecttion of God but we an believe and understand what the Bible tell us, and we can do that 100%.. You are just taking up the twist again so that you can win a argument.. Sorry but it is not in you to win an argument about he purity of faith in God's word as compared to the pick and choose agreement to it found in mormonism.. IHS jim

Sorry, nothing about winning an argument. Sounds like you are projecting.

You say that someone cannot have even 1% of a belief about Jesus that is incorrect. I hope that God doesn't judge you with the same criteria.

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Ask him again only ask if he holds to what the Bible teaches about Jesus 100%. You will find that He is saying there is no way for the human finite mind to understand the perfection of God but we [c]an believe and understand what the Bible tell us,and we can do that 100%. You are just taking up the twist again so that you can win a argument. Sorry but it is not in you to win an argument about he purity of faith in God's word as compared to the pick and choose agreement to it found in Mormonism. IHS Jim

What he said was "everyone would like to think that they are right about every issue concerning Jesus but this may not be possible" which is diametrically opposed to your statement that half truths "They are nothing more that 100% lies." You seem to keep forgetting your ****ogy of "a gl*** half filled with pure water and then the other half is fill with sewer water" is still drinking sewer water.

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by Billyray

The disputed doctrine that I was speaking about was not about salvation but other doctrine. The definition of doctrine is "something that is taught". Thus there are many things that are taught that are not very clear and there are many things that are taught that are very clear from the Bible. Let me give you some examples of doctrine (something that is taught) and see if you can guess which ones are clear and which ones are not so clear.

1. Jesus died for our sins

2. Role of dinosaurs in creation and age of the earth.

Which of these things is not like the other things Billy? I want to make it clear at the onset that I am not an authority on Catholic doctrine and will gladly accept and welcome any correction. It is just that I am trying to make a point.


1. Catholics believe that the sacrament of baptism is the way we receive God's grace and how justification is given to us. Our agency in accepting or rejecting this ordinance is the beginning of our faith in Christ and our cooperation with the grace of the Holy Spirit.


2. Protestants believe that the ordinance of baptism is not a requirement for salvation.

[Vlad III]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

What he said was "everyone would like to think that they are right about every issue concerning Jesus but this may not be possible" which is diametrically opposed to your statement that half truths "They are nothing more that 100% lies." You seem to keep forgetting your ****ogy of "a gl*** half filled with pure water and then the other half is fill with sewer water" is still drinking sewer water.

For James it isn't even just 50/50. If the ratio is 98/2 then it is still completely corrupt and flase according to James.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Vlad III

Sorry, nothing about winning an argument. Sounds like you are projecting.

You say that someone cannot have even 1% of a belief about Jesus that is incorrect. I hope that God doesn't judge you with the same criteria.

What is it your don't understand about having to believe God 100%. That seems to me a bit hard for you to understand.. Would a few quotes fro His word help?

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Unless you are 100% right about how salvation (perfection) come to a man about if you offend God in just one way you are GUILTY before Him of all unrighteousness. How can you not see that it is required that you believe Him and His word 100%? 99.99999% isn't good enough.. It must be 100% IHS jim

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by Billyray

And what ordinances are absolutely required to live with God again? Please include your explanation of the thief of the cross into your explanation.

Mark 16:16 believeth and is baptized shall be saved.
John 3:5 Except a man be born of water.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh,and drinketh my blood,hath eternal life.

Luke 23:43 To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
John 20:17 touch me not,for I am not yet ascended.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

What he said was "everyone would like to think that they are right about every issue concerning Jesus but this may not be possible" which is diametrically opposed to your statement that half truths "They are nothing more that 100% lies." You seem to keep forgetting your ****ogy of "a gl*** half filled with pure water and then the other half is fill with sewer water" is still drinking sewer water.

And I said ask him again and see that he will agree that we can be 100% correct on believing what the Bible says about Jesus.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Vlad III

For James it isn't even just 50/50. If the ratio is 98/2 then it is still completely corrupt and flase according to James.

100% or nothing.. Mormonism teaches NOTHING! IHS jim

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by James Banta

100% or nothing.. Mormonism teaches NOTHING! IHS jim

Billy said that ""everyone would like to think that they are right about every issue concerning Jesus but this may not be possible."

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by James Banta

And I said ask him again and see that he will agree that we can be 100% correct on believing what the Bible says about Jesus. IHS Jim

What he said was that "everyone would like to think that they are right about every issue concerning Jesus but this may not be possible."

[Mark Beesley]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Because of your view of the Godhead which consists of separate and distinct gods that create (or organize) other gods. But if your view of the Trinity was of ONE God you would not have that misunderstanding.

Can you give us your take of that verse? Here it is again.
Colossians 1:16 For by him (Jesus) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

That's a good one. So, if I understand correctly, if I create a false god and call it The Trinity, then I can reconcile Colossians 1:16 by having Jesus create everything without creating Himself . . .

Maybe Colossians 1:16 is simply meant to be be understood in contrast to the false gods of the Romans and Greeks rather than being a statement of the nature of God and His relationship to His children and Lucifer.

Incidentally, it is incorrect to say that my view of God is of one who creates or organizes other gods. That's just weird.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

Which of these things is not like the other things Billy? I want to make it clear at the onset that I am not an authority on Catholic doctrine and will gladly accept and welcome any correction. It is just that I am trying to make a point.


1. Catholics believe that the sacrament of baptism is the way we receive God's grace and how justification is given to us. Our agency in accepting or rejecting this ordinance is the beginning of our faith in Christ and our cooperation with the grace of the Holy Spirit.


2. Protestants believe that the ordinance of baptism is not a requirement for salvation.

The issue revolves around the question--is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works? Although some verses may hint at works the overall message of the NT is one of salvation by faith alone. Faith plus works = salvation by works.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

Mark 16:16
believeth and is baptized shall be saved.

Again it boils down to either salvation by works OR salvation by faith. Salvation is by faith alone.

Do you agree with the verse below? Notice the difference between the first half and the last half is belief. (Before you answer recall your position with Ted Bundy who was baptized LDS)
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not (and is baptized) shall be ****ed.

Originally Posted by Mesenja

John 3:5 Except a man be born of water.

In context what is born of water?

John 3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Originally Posted by Mesenja

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh,and drinketh my blood,hath eternal life.

Do you eat his flesh and drink his blood?

Originally Posted by Mesenja

Luke 23:43To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
John 20:17 touch me not,for I am not yet ascended.

The one verse I asked you to comment on and you did not really comment on it. Please explain the verse that speaks of the thief on the cross, what does it mean to you?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Mark Beesley

That's a good one. So, if I understand correctly, if I create a false god and call it The Trinity, then I can reconcile Colossians 1:16 by having Jesus create everything without creating Himself . . .

Maybe Colossians 1:16 is simply meant to be be understood in contrast to the false gods of the Romans and Greeks rather than being a statement of the nature of God and His relationship to His children and Lucifer.

I notice that you did not give us your explanation. I would like to hear your understanding of this verse.

Originally Posted by Mark Beesley

Incidentally, it is incorrect to say that my view of God is of one who creates or organizes other gods. That's just weird.

According to Mormonism God the Father is a God. God the Father created Jesus by taking his intelligence and making it into a spirit baby, Jesus then progressed on from there to become a God, i.e. God creates or organizes other gods. The same is true for you--aren't you a god in utero? Don't you recall the Lorenzo Snow couplet? "As man is God once was, as God is man may be."

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by Billyray

The issue revolves around the question--is salvation by faith alone,or by faith plus works? Although some verses may hint at works the overall message of the New Testament is one of salvation by faith alone. Faith plus works =salvation by works.

At least not as i see it. The issue is who am I to believe on the vital doctrine of salvation? If it was just a mater of making an appeal to the Bible and in your case that would mean the apostle Paul then understanding would come effortlessly and automatically. If this were so then his fellow apostle Peter would have no need to say "As also in all his letters,speaking in them of these things;in which are some things hard to be understood,which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,as they do also the other scriptures,to their own destruction."

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

The issue is who am I to believe on the vital doctrine of salvation?

The Bible. If you stick with that you will be OK as long as you don't try to twist it.

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by Billyray

The Bible. If you stick with that you will be OK as long as you don't try to twist it.

The Catholics and Protestants both make an appeal to the Bible to support their doctrine.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

The Catholics and Protestants both make an appeal to the Bible to support their doctrine.

Give us a specific question and we can look through the Bible for your answer.

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Give us a specific question and we can look through the Bible for your answer.

Do I ask a Catholic or do I ask a Protestant.