Is Jesus The Only Way To Know God?

[sunofmysoul]

okay...here are a list of verses..from a friend (euty) .that also got my brain originally churning with questions....and i really appreciate anyone willing to discuss them with me...


"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:3-4).

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Pet. 3:9).



1. 1Tim 2:4-God will have all to be saved - Can His will be thwarted?
2. 1Tim 2:4-God desires all to come to the knowledge of truth - Will His desire come to p***, or is it a WEAK WISH?
3. 1Tim 2:6-Salvation of all is….testified in due time - Are we judging God before due time?
4. Jn 12:47-Jesus came to save all - Will He succeed, or FAIL?
5. Eph 1:11-God works all after the counsel of His will - Can our will overcome His?
6. Jn 4:42-Jesus is Savior of the world - Can He be Savior of all without saving all?
7. 1Jn 4:14-Jesus is Savior of the world - Why don't we BELIEVE it?
8. Jn 12:32-Jesus will draw all mankind unto Himself - To burn or to love?
9. Col 1:16-By Him all were created - Will He lose a part of His creation?
10. Rm 5:15-21-In Adam all condemned, in Christ all live - The same ALL?
11. 1Cor 15:22-In Adam all die, in Christ all live - Again, the same ALL?
12. Eph 1:10-All come into Him at the fulness of times - Are YOU tired of seeing the word, ALL?
13. Phil 2:9-11-Every tongue shall confess Jesus is Lord - Will the Holy Spirit be given to everyone?
14. 1Cor 12:3-Cannot confess except by Holy Spirit - See what I mean?
15. Rm 11:26-All Israel will be saved - But most Jews don't believe yet!
16. Acts 3:20, 21-Res***ution of all - How plain can you get?
17. Luke 2:10-Jesus will be joy to all people - Is there joy in Satan's "hell"?
18. Heb 8:11, 12-All will know God - How long will you tarry, O Lord?
19. Eph 2:7-His grace shown in the ages to come - Have we judged Him before the coming age?
20. ***us 2:11-Grace has appeared to all - Experientially or Prophetically?
21. Rm 8:19-21-Creation set at liberty - How much of creation? After those who have the firstfruits of the spirit?
22. Col 1:20-All reconciled unto God - There's that word "ALL" again.
23. 1Cor 4:5-All will have praise of God - What for?
24. Jms 5:11-End of the Lord is full of mercy - Is eternal "hell" merciful?
25. Rev 15:4-All nations worship when God's judgments are seen - Could His judgment be mercy?
26. Rm 11:32-All subject to unbelief, mercy on all - All?
27. Rm 11:36-All out of, through, and into Him - ALL into Him?
28. Eph 4:10-Jesus will fill all things - does this include "hell?"
29. Rev 5:13-All creation seen praising God - Including Satan? All creation!
30. 1Cor 15:28-God will be all in all - What does that mean?
31. Rev 21:4, 5-No more tears, all things made new - ALL made new? Or few? Are you crying still?
32. Jn 5:25-All dead who hear will live - How many will hear?
33. Jn 5:28-All in the grave will hear & come forth - How will the "righteous" Judge, judge?
34. 1 Cor 3:15-All saved so as by fire - How can FIRE save you?
35. Mk 9:49-Everyone shall be salted with fire - Including you?
36. Rm 11:15-Reconciliation of the world - Will fire save?
37. 2Cor 5:15-Jesus died for ALL - Did He die in vain?
38. Jn 8:29-Jesus always does what pleases His Father - What pleases the Father? (1Tim 2:4)
39. Heb 1:2-Jesus is Heir of all things - Does "things" include people? YES.
40. Jn 17:2-Jesus gives eternal life to all that His Father gave Him - How many did the Father give Him?
41. Jn 3:35-The Father gave Him all things - (Repeated for emphasis) Study the word "things".
42. 1 Tim 4:9-11-Jesus is Savior of all - Can't seem to get away from that word "all."
43. Heb. 7:25-Jesus is able to save to the uttermost - How far is "uttermost?"
44. 1Cor 15:26-Last enemy, death, will be destroyed - In the "lake of fire" which is the "second" death. No more dying (Rev 21:4, Isa. 25:8 )?
45. Is 46:10-God will do all His pleasure - Does Old Testament agree with the New?
46. Gen 18:18-All families of the earth will be blessed - Here comes that word "all" again.
47. Dan 4:35-God's will done in heaven and earth - What can defeat His will?
48. Ps 66:3, 4-Enemies will submit to God - Can any stay rebellious?
49. Ps 90:3-God turns man to destruction, and then says return - How can one return from "destruction"? Humbled, bruised and ashamed?
50. Is 25:7-Will destroy veil spread over all nations - All nations?
51. Deut 32:39-He kills and makes alive - Kills to bring life?
52. Ps 33:15-God fashions all hearts - "All" hearts, including men like "Hitler"?
53. Prv 16:9-Man devises, God directs his steps - What about "free will"?
54. Prv 19:21-Man devises, but God's counsel stands - So much for "free will."
55. La 3:31, 32-God will not cast off forever - Why does He cast off in the first place?
56. Is 2:2-All nations shall flow to the Lord's house - ALL nations?
57. Ps 86:9-All nations will worship Him - ALL nations!
58. Is 45:23-All descendants of Israel justified - Including the wicked ones?
59. Ps 138:4-All kings will praise God - Are you catching on?
60. Ps 65:2-4-All flesh will come to God - That sounds wondrous.
61. Ps 72:18-God only does wondrous things - I wish we would BELIEVE that.
62. Isa 19:14, 15-Egypt & ***yria will be restored - Really?
63. Ezk 16:55-Sodom will be restored to former estate - Sounds impossible.
64. Jer 32:17-Nothing is too difficult for Him - Nothing? No, nothing!
65. Ps 22:27-All ends of the earth will turn to Him - For what purpose?
66. Ps 22:27-All families will worship before Him - Praise His name!
67. Ps 145:9-He is good to all - Including your worst enemies.
68. Ps 145:9-His mercies are over all his works - Let's start believing that.
69. Ps 145:14-He raises all who fall - Who hasn't sinned?
70. Ps 145:10-All His works will praise Him - For "eternal torment"?
71. Is 25:6-Lord makes a feast for all people - And you are invited.
72. Jer 32:35-Never entered His mind to torture his children with fire.- This came from the carnal mind, NOT SPIRITUAL.
73. Jn 6:44-No one can come to Him unless He draws (drag) them. - You can't "choose" to follow Him, SELF-DETERMINATION.
74. Jn 12:32-I will draw all mankind unto Myself - Amen!
75. Ps 135:6-God does what pleases Him - If it PLEASES Him to SAVE ALL that He might be in all, are you upset?

[dave52_47]

Originally Posted by sunofmysoul

okay...here are a list of verses..from a friend (euty) .that also got my brain originally churning with questions....and I really appreciate anyone willing to discuss them with me...

1. 1Tim 2:4-God will have all to be saved - Can His will be thwarted?
2. 1Tim 2:4-God desires all to come to the knowledge of truth - Will His desire come to p***, or is it a WEAK WISH?
3. 1Tim 2:6-Salvation of all is….testified in due time - Are we judging God before due time?
4. Jn 12:47-Jesus came to save all - Will He succeed, or FAIL?
5. Eph 1:11-God works all after the counsel of His will - Can our will overcome His?
6. Jn 4:42-Jesus is Savior of the world - Can He be Savior of all without saving all?
7. 1Jn 4:14-Jesus is Savior of the world - Why don't we BELIEVE it?
8. Jn 12:32-Jesus will draw all mankind unto Himself - To burn or to love?
9. Col 1:16-By Him all were created - Will He lose a part of His creation?
10. Rm 5:15-21-In Adam all condemned, in Christ all live - The same ALL?
11. 1Cor 15:22-In Adam all die, in Christ all live - Again, the same ALL?
12. Eph 1:10-All come into Him at the fulness of times - Are YOU tired of seeing the word, ALL?
13. Phil 2:9-11-Every tongue shall confess Jesus is Lord - Will the Holy Spirit be given to everyone?
14. 1Cor 12:3-Cannot confess except by Holy Spirit - See what I mean?
15. Rm 11:26-All Israel will be saved - But most Jews don't believe yet!
16. Acts 3:20, 21-Res***ution of all - How plain can you get?
17. Luke 2:10-Jesus will be joy to all people - Is there joy in Satan's "hell"?
18. Heb 8:11, 12-All will know God - How long will you tarry, O Lord?
19. Eph 2:7-His grace shown in the ages to come - Have we judged Him before the coming age?
20. ***us 2:11-Grace has appeared to all - Experientially or Prophetically?
21. Rm 8:19-21-Creation set at liberty - How much of creation? After those who have the firstfruits of the spirit?
22. Col 1:20-All reconciled unto God - There's that word "ALL" again.
23. 1Cor 4:5-All will have praise of God - What for?
24. Jms 5:11-End of the Lord is full of mercy - Is eternal "hell" merciful?
25. Rev 15:4-All nations worship when God's judgments are seen - Could His judgment be mercy?
26. Rm 11:32-All subject to unbelief, mercy on all - All?
27. Rm 11:36-All out of, through, and into Him - ALL into Him?
28. Eph 4:10-Jesus will fill all things - does this include "hell?"
29. Rev 5:13-All creation seen praising God - Including Satan? All creation!
30. 1Cor 15:28-God will be all in all - What does that mean?
31. Rev 21:4, 5-No more tears, all things made new - ALL made new? Or few? Are you crying still?
32. Jn 5:25-All dead who hear will live - How many will hear?
33. Jn 5:28-All in the grave will hear & come forth - How will the "righteous" Judge, judge?
34. 1 Cor 3:15-All saved so as by fire - How can FIRE save you?
35. Mk 9:49-Everyone shall be salted with fire - Including you?
36. Rm 11:15-Reconciliation of the world - Will fire save?
37. 2Cor 5:15-Jesus died for ALL - Did He die in vain?
38. Jn 8:29-Jesus always does what pleases His Father - What pleases the Father? (1Tim 2:4)
39. Heb 1:2-Jesus is Heir of all things - Does "things" include people? YES.
40. Jn 17:2-Jesus gives eternal life to all that His Father gave Him - How many did the Father give Him?
41. Jn 3:35-The Father gave Him all things - (Repeated for emphasis) Study the word "things".
42. 1 Tim 4:9-11-Jesus is Savior of all - Can't seem to get away from that word "all."
43. Heb. 7:25-Jesus is able to save to the uttermost - How far is "uttermost?"
44. 1Cor 15:26-Last enemy, death, will be destroyed - In the "lake of fire" which is the "second" death. No more dying (Rev 21:4, Isa. 25:8 )?
45. Is 46:10-God will do all His pleasure - Does Old Testament agree with the New?
46. Gen 18:18-All families of the earth will be blessed - Here comes that word "all" again.
47. Dan 4:35-God's will done in heaven and earth - What can defeat His will?
48. Ps 66:3, 4-Enemies will submit to God - Can any stay rebellious?
49. Ps 90:3-God turns man to destruction, and then says return - How can one return from "destruction"? Humbled, bruised and ashamed?
50. Is 25:7-Will destroy veil spread over all nations - All nations?
51. Deut 32:39-He kills and makes alive - Kills to bring life?
52. Ps 33:15-God fashions all hearts - "All" hearts, including men like "Hitler"?
53. Prv 16:9-Man devises, God directs his steps - What about "free will"?
54. Prv 19:21-Man devises, but God's counsel stands - So much for "free will."
55. La 3:31, 32-God will not cast off forever - Why does He cast off in the first place?
56. Is 2:2-All nations shall flow to the Lord's house - ALL nations?
57. Ps 86:9-All nations will worship Him - ALL nations!
58. Is 45:23-All descendants of Israel justified - Including the wicked ones?
59. Ps 138:4-All kings will praise God - Are you catching on?
60. Ps 65:2-4-All flesh will come to God - That sounds wondrous.
61. Ps 72:18-God only does wondrous things - I wish we would BELIEVE that.
62. Isa 19:14, 15-Egypt & ***yria will be restored - Really?
63. Ezk 16:55-Sodom will be restored to former estate - Sounds impossible.
64. Jer 32:17-Nothing is too difficult for Him - Nothing? No, nothing!
65. Ps 22:27-All ends of the earth will turn to Him - For what purpose?
66. Ps 22:27-All families will worship before Him - Praise His name!
67. Ps 145:9-He is good to all - Including your worst enemies.
68. Ps 145:9-His mercies are over all his works - Let's start believing that.
69. Ps 145:14-He raises all who fall - Who hasn't sinned?
70. Ps 145:10-All His works will praise Him - For "eternal torment"?
71. Is 25:6-Lord makes a feast for all people - And you are invited.
72. Jer 32:35-Never entered His mind to torture his children with fire.- This came from the carnal mind, NOT SPIRITUAL.
73. Jn 6:44-No one can come to Him unless He draws (drag) them. - You can't "choose" to follow Him, SELF-DETERMINATION.
74. Jn 12:32-I will draw all mankind unto Myself - Amen!
75. Ps 135:6-God does what pleases Him - If it PLEASES Him to SAVE ALL that He might be in all, are you upset?

soms,
Ok, I'll take the bait.

First of all... say hi to Euty for me. I know him from CARM-He will remember me.
Secondly---some of these are not relevant to this thread. (but could be answered on a thread of your design.)
Thirdly...many of the questions being raised afterward are not even alluded to in the verses that are quoted. There are many pieces of verses but no immediate, or even larger context, to evaluate your claims against.

A case in point:
31.Rev 21:4, 5-No more tears, all things made new - ALL made new? Or few? Are you crying still?

Yes I am still crying-because this verse has nothing to do with the present. In context it has to do with God wiping away every tear of those who have heeded His call to be reconciled unto him through His Son and have at that time entered into the eternal state with Him. Here is the immediate context:

Rev. 21:1-5--
1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth p***ed away, and there is no longer any sea.

2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,

4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have p***ed away."

5 And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new " And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."

The context is given and now you can see that the question has nothing to do with now. You have not experienced a "new heaven and a new earth" being created. I know I haven't. God has not promised that all things would be resolved in our earthly lifetime.

Here's another:
13. Phil 2:9-11-Every tongue shall confess Jesus is Lord - Will the Holy Spirit be given to everyone?

This does not teach salvation for all. This is a reference to all recognizing who Jesus is. They will bow to Him because they will understand that he is God, regardless of whether or not they believe in Him as the Savior-they will know it but have already rejected God's offer of reconciliation through Jesus. In the context of the p***age this is in the future.

There are many more but I really think the best way to do this is don't ask Euty's questions-ask yours-unless you are saying that you agree with his rendering of the contents of these verses. I would be glad to answer any and all of your questions-and I'm sure others would, too. Maybe if you broke these 75 questions down into separate categories. There are many repe***ions so there probably aren't really that many questions-but this would be extremely time consuming for those of us who would like to dialogue with you on these subjects. And, as I said, some are not relevant to this thread. So that would narrow the list down considerably. Sound reasonable?

Dave

[sayso]

Originally Posted by sunofmysoul

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:3-4).

soms,
Even this verse must be held in context of what Paul was writing about.

1 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, pe***ions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,

2 for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.

3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
What is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior? That we would make entreaties and prayers, pe***ions and thanksgivings on behalf of all men. No follower of Jesus ever believed that we should not pray for "all" men regardless who they are or what they believe.
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

Who desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth? God does, there's no disagreement there. But what is the knowledge of the truth? He answers that in verses 5 and 6.


7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

8 Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and dissension.

Here Paul reiterates that what he has said is the "truth" and so therefore he wants everyone to pray without anger or disagreement. Disagreement about what? About the fact that there is One God and One mediator between man and God, the man Jesus Christ.

Originally Posted by sunofmysoul

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Pet. 3:9).

2 Peter 3

3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,

4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation."

In this p***age His promise is His second coming. Some people were mockers and saying that Jesus wasn't true to His word.

5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that
by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,

6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.

7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

So they were looking for and expecting Jesus to return because He said that He will. And again we agree that God is not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to "repentance." What does it mean to "come to repentance"?