Derogatory terms part deux

[Pahoran]

Under the rubric of derogatory terms: what is the value of a term like "cult," which serves no other purpose than to demonise its target?

On another forum, an LDS participant from this board claimed that he had been told that the term "LDS Christian" was regarded as "derogatory" or in some way offensive, and should therefore not be used, because the board administrators hold that Mormonism is not Christian.

Is that correct?

Granted that this is the position of the board, why must Latter-day Saint followers of Jesus of Nazareth tacitly ***ent to what they rightly view as a canard in order to participate here?

Regards,
Pahoran

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Pahoran

Under the rubric of derogatory terms: what is the value of a term like "cult," which serves no other purpose than to demonise its target?

On another forum, an LDS participant from this board claimed that he had been told that the term "LDS Christian" was regarded as "derogatory" or in some way offensive, and should therefore not be used, because the board administrators hold that Mormonism is not Christian.

You have a nasty habit of using derogatory names--so it is quite interesting that of all people you are the one to raise this issue.

[Vlad III]

Originally Posted by Pahoran

Under the rubric of derogatory terms: what is the value of a term like "cult," which serves no other purpose than to demonise its target?

On another forum, an LDS participant from this board claimed that he had been told that the term "LDS Christian" was regarded as "derogatory" or in some way offensive, and should therefore not be used, because the board administrators hold that Mormonism is not Christian.

Is that correct?

Granted that this is the position of the board, why must Latter-day Saint followers of Jesus of Nazareth tacitly ***ent to what they rightly view as a canard in order to participate here?

Regards,
Pahoran

I wonder if you are referring to this:

Originally Posted by akaSeerone

mod edit.

Andy

Some LDS use the term "LDS Christian" to differentiate themselves from non-LDS Christians; the obvious implication that LDS fall under the unbrella of Christianity. Most people who are critics of the LDS church will deny that LDS are Christians and would consider the term LDS-Christian to be a non-sequitur or an oxymoron.

But TMK there is no "rule" that states that such a term is prohibited here.

[Pahoran]

Originally Posted by Vlad III

I wonder if you are referring to this:



Some LDS use the term "LDS Christian" to differentiate themselves from non-LDS Christians; the obvious implication that LDS fall under the unbrella of Christianity. Most people who are critics of the LDS church will deny that LDS are Christians and would consider the term LDS-Christian to be a non-sequitur or an oxymoron.

But TMK there is no "rule" that states that such a term is prohibited here.

Thanks Vlad. That does sound a lot like what was alleged to have been said.

But there is a difference between an argument and an enforced rule. If it's just aka being a ****hard, I can understand that. Although, of course, he is clearly wrong; there's nothing "derogatory" about a Latter-day Saint claiming to be a Christian, but that's another issue.

So can we take it that there is no such rule?

Regards,
Pahoran

[OceanCoast]

Originally Posted by Vlad III

But TMK there is no "rule" that states that such a term is prohibited here.

A memo did go out about how LDS-Christian was offensive and shouldn't be used... didn't you get it?

[Vlad III]

Originally Posted by OceanCoast

A memo did go out about how LDS-Christian was offensive and shouldn't be used... didn't you get it?

Apparantly not. But I've been banned for a month and just got back.

[Jill]

Pahoran,

Please review the "Derogatory Terms" thread. I updated it today to address the term "LDS Christian." I do not consider it a derogatory term, I consider it inaccurate and misleading based upon biblical theology and an extensive historical record.

LDS Members are not forced to "consent" to anything. Most people joining this board know Walter Martin's theology, and members automatically consent to follow board rules, whatever they may be. This includes respecting moderator decisions regarding inaccurate and misleading terminology. If some Christians on this board started referring to themselves as LDS Christians, they would be informed of the problem and told to respect the board rules. Posting on any board is a privilege, not a right.

I will leave this thread up briefly, and then it will be deleted.

[Vlad III]

Originally Posted by Jill

Pahoran,

Please review the "Derogatory Terms" thread. I updated it today to address the term "LDS Christian." I do not consider it a derogatory term, I consider it inaccurate and misleading based upon biblical theology and an extensive historical record.

LDS Members are not forced to "consent" to anything. Most people joining this board know Walter Martin's theology, and members automatically consent to follow board rules, whatever they may be. This includes respecting moderator decisions regarding inaccurate and misleading terminology. If some Christians on this board started referring to themselves as LDS Christians, they would be informed of the problem and told to respect the board rules. Posting on any board is a privilege, not a right.

I will leave this thread up until tonight, and then it will be deleted.

Wow! So it seems the updates on what can and cannot be said is getting longer. I stand corrected.

[Jill]

Vlad, please review the long list of "cannots,"--made necessary by people with impulse control issues.

Originally Posted by Vlad III

Wow! So it seems the updates on what can and cannot be said is getting longer. I stand corrected.

[Vlad III]

Originally Posted by Jill

Vlad, please review the long list of "cannots,"--made necessary by people with impulse control issues.

Well if you guys weren't so impulsive to flip-out whenever a LDS calls himself a Christian you wouldn't need that rule!

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Vlad III

Well if you guys weren't so impulsive to flip-out whenever a LDS calls himself a Christian you wouldn't need that rule!

I know that Joseph is a false prophet, I know that Monson is leading you down to the path to destruction, I know that you worship a false god and a false gospel. With that said would you be OK it I called myself Mormon?

[Vlad III]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I know that Joseph is a false prophet, I know that Monson is leading you down to the path to destruction, I know that you worship a false god and a false gospel. With that said would you be OK it I called myself Mormon?

Sure.

You can call yourself what you want. If you want to call yourself a Mormon while denying what Mormonism teaches, so be it.

If I want to call myself a Christian, and affirm my belief in Jesus Christ as my savior, you ought to not have a problem with that.

Yes I know the whole argument that you will now make - that it's the wrong Jesus and yada yada....whatever.

I won't deny your right call yourself what you want even though you guys have a problem with others doing that.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Vlad III

You can call yourself what you want. If you want to call yourself a Mormon while denying what Mormonism teaches, so be it.

Would you be OK if I dug out my LDS missionary badge and went around teaching others my current beliefs while at the same time claiming I was a Mormon?

[Vlad III]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Would you be OK if I dug out my LDS missionary badge and went around teaching others my current beliefs while at the same time claiming I was a Mormon?

Sure! Of course the problem with your ****ogy is that you want to be called a Mormon, and yet go around telling everyone that Mormonism is wrong and its leaders and tenants are false.

Mormons go around telling people they are Christians and tell them why they believe Jesus Christ is TRUE, the Savior of the world, the Redeemer, Son of God, etc....

Most people with common sense will see the difference in someone who calls themself one thing but professes another and someone who calls themself one thing and verifies it by word and deed.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Vlad III

Sure! Of course the problem with your ****ogy is that you want to be called a Mormon, and yet go around telling everyone that Mormonism is wrong and its leaders and tenants are false.

I just interpret it differently than you and thus would give others a clearer understanding of true Mormonism.

BTW is that what YOU are doing to Christians when you go around and teach investigators that Christianity is wrong and you are right?

[Vlad III]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I just interpret it differently than you and thus would give others a clearer understanding of true Mormonism.

LOL...If you want to go around appearing to be a representative of the Mormon church, and then telling people that the things the Mormon church believe in and its leaders are false, I'm not too worried about the numbers of followers you will have.

Of course Christianity is defined as those who profess in and believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior. Since LDS do this they have more right to be called a Christian than you would to be called Mormon.

EDIT to ADD: I'm sure there will be a litmus test of the criteria required to be called a Christian, right? Jill indicated that a Christian is someone who denounces Joseph SMith. Is that one of the new extra-biblical requirements for being a Christian?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Vlad III

LOL...If you want to go around appearing to be a representative of the Mormon church, and then telling people that the things the Mormon church believe in and its leaders are false, I'm not too worried about the numbers of followers you will have.

I would tell them that the LDS church is changing from the inside out and moving more mainstream. And that they have officially changed their beliefs somewhat such as the Book of Mormon is not a true history but a feel good book that has good religious principles and stories, particularly good stories to help your kids fall asleep really fast.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Vlad III

Sounds like you are okay about lying, deceiving, and telling people falsehoods. So, no, I wouldn't fear you calling yourself a Mormon since as I said before, people see through those that talk the talk but don't walk the walk.

You see it is all about perspective. You interpret the Bible differently than I do. I interpret Mormonism differently than you do. I would tell them the truth about Mormonism the way that I interpret it.

[Vlad III]

Originally Posted by Billyray

You see it is all about perspective. You interpret the Bible differently than I do. I interpret Mormonism differently than you do. I would tell them the truth about Mormonism the way that I interpret it.

Yes, but you just got through claiming that:

Originally Posted by Billyray

I would tell them that the LDS church is changing ...And that they have officially changed their beliefs somewhat such as the Book of Mormon is not a true history but a feel good book that has good religious principles and stories....

That is not just your perspective. You are claiming the LDS made an official statement to support your "perspective", which is false and would be lying.

But the issue is much more simple: You want to call yourself a Mormon and then tell everyone why from your perspective Mormonism is false and a satanic-cult.

LDS call themsleves Christian and then tell everyone why they believe in Jesus Christ and look to Him for their salvation.

Your argument only makes sense if the issue is that LDS call themselves Christian and then go around telling people that Jesus Christ is false, not the Savior, a fraud, and you shouldn't follow Him, etc...

[Libby]

He could just tell them that Mormonism has been "re-restored".

[Vlad III]

Originally Posted by Libby

He could just tell them that Mormonism has been "re-restored".

LOL....again, for those that can't seem to grasp this simple concept: You can call yourself what you want, but if you call yourself something only to denounce everything it entails, you only fool yourself and nobody really cares. ANd if you want to call yourself a Mormon and then tell people false things about Mormonism, that really says more about the type of Christian you really claim to be.

And again, for Libby, Billy's attempt at making a cogent ****ogy only works of LDS call themselves Christians while denying the very Christ. That isn't the case (even though you'll argue it is by virtue of our different interpretations of scripture).

I don't think even Gumby could stretch as far as you guys are trying to here!

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Vlad III

LOL....again, for those that can't seem to grasp this simple concept: You can call yourself what you want, but if you call yourself something only to denounce everything it entails, you only fool yourself and nobody really cares. ANd if you want to call yourself a Mormon and then tell people false things about Mormonism, that really says more about the type of Christian you really claim to be.

And again, for Libby, Billy's attempt at making a cogent ****ogy only works of LDS call themselves Christians while denying the very Christ. That isn't the case (even though you'll argue it is by virtue of our different interpretations of scripture).

I don't think even Gumby could stretch as far as you guys are trying to here!

I do believe that the LDS church denies "the very Christ" of the Bible. They absolutely do. That's why Billy's ****ogy is right on the mark.

[Vlad III]

Originally Posted by Libby

I do believe that the LDS church denies "the very Christ" of the Bible. They absolutely do. That's why Billy's ****ogy is right on the mark.

Of course you "believe" this way.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Vlad III

ANd if you want to call yourself a Mormon and then tell people false things about Mormonism, that really says more about the type of Christian you really claim to be.

ANd if you want to call yourself a Christian and then tell people false things about Christianity, that really says more about the type of Christian you really claim to be.

[Vlad III]

Originally Posted by Billyray

ANd if you want to call yourself a Christian and then tell people false things about Christianity, that really says more about the type of Christian you really claim to be.

Zing!!!
You win.

Go ahead and call yourself a Mormon.

I'll continue to call myself a Christian.

You deny Mormonism.

I affirm Jesus Christ as my Savior.

Let the people decide who is more worthy of the ***le they have taken upon themselves.