Derogatory terms part deux

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I just interpret it differently than you and thus would give others a clearer understanding of true Mormonism.

BTW is that what YOU are doing to Christians when you go around and teach investigators that Christianity is wrong and you are right?

We don't teach Christianity is wrong, we show that the precepts, creeds and theories are wrong as taught by man. We believe the Bible to be true as it is interpreted correctly.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Richard

We don't teach Christianity is wrong, we show that the precepts, creeds and theories are wrong as taught by man. We believe the Bible to be true as it is interpreted correctly.

I believe Joseph Smith jr and his creation to be true as it is interpreted correctly?

[Richard]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

I believe Joseph Smith jr and his creation to be true as it is interpreted correctly?

I believe that Christians now days are not the Christians of the NT.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Richard

I believe that Christians now days are not the Christians of the NT.

I haven't sold all I have and given it to the poor.
I don't meet for religious meetings in strangers houses each week.
I don't attend meetings where the sick are healed. '
I have yet to witness any miracles, ie walking on water, healing the leprosy.
I have yet to hear any man, woman give prophecy that came true.
I only read the Holy Bible, believe in the Jesus of the Holy Bible and His Heavenly Father, and do my best, which is never enough to please man, but always forgiven by said, Jesus of the Holy Bible.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Vlad III

Well, sure. I agree with BY that the HG is not the one that conceived JC. It was through the power of the HG, but the Father is literally the father.



Really? Does YOUR Jesus have the ability to take away all of YOUR sins? What about the sin against the Holy Ghost? No? You mean there is at least 1 sin that your Jesus won't forgive you for?





Yes, we LDS have heard that song many times.

You should hear it until you see that you are denying the Scriptures and the power of the God of the Bible to forgive sins..

Here it is right from God's word:

Matthew 1:18-20
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Twice in as many verses It is said that Mary conceived Jesus of the Holy Ghost. You can deny that but it is you not the Christian here that are denying the Scripture..

God could even forgive the sin against the Holy Spirit. He won't do it! Jesus Said that all sin will be forgiven but the sin against the Holy Spirit.. Know what that sin is? It is saying that Jesus can't forgive that He is not God. That there is something a person can do to save themselves.. If those beliefs are held unto death there is NO FORGIVENESS.. It is the Sin of denying the Holy Spirit who time and time again pointed you to Jesus.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Richard

We don't teach Christianity is wrong, we show that the precepts, creeds and theories are wrong as taught by man. We believe the Bible to be true as it is interpreted correctly.

And we are to trust a church that can't even give the correct interpretutation whenit is given right in the p***age? You are the ones that shoud listen you take the meaning of scripture a twist it to sat what you want instea of what it says .
EXAMPLE:

Ezekiel 37:15-24
The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

Not one word of writings or a book.. But two sticks that represent the two divided kingdoms and how God will unite them into one people with one King.. And we should listen to your false teachings on how the Bible should be interpreted? We could not do that and stay true to God and His revelation to us, the Bible.. We will not cast truth away for the false teaching of a false god and his false prophet.. IHS jim

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Richard

We don't teach Christianity is wrong, we show that the precepts, creeds and theories are wrong as taught by man. We believe the Bible to be true as it is interpreted correctly.

Come on Richard we both know that your statement is false. Mormons do teach that Christianity is wrong and they are supposedly right.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Jill

Not kidding, honest. It was like something from the Twilight Zone.

Seems that mormonism keeps changed not just with time but from person to person.. This "spokesmen" of the mormon church you ran into is in driect contradiction to today's first presidency of the mormon church.. President said:

Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon are at the very heart of the Lord Jesus Christ’s latter-day work. Joseph Smith and his work were known prophetically in the Bible and in the Book of Mormon. (President James E. Faust, Ensign, January 1996)

If he being in the Central of the central cores of mormonism said that then that tour guide was flat out LYING. No one could be so uninformed about their own church as to say something like that and mean it..

Even the question for a temple recommend contradict such a statement.

Questions 3 and 4 read:
Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?
Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet,
Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to
exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of
the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General
Authorities and local authorities of the Church?
IHS jim

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Come on Richard we both know that your statement is false.

---No-- you don't know that.

Mormons do teach that Christianity is wrong and they are supposedly right

---False. Mormons teach that SOME ASPECTS of apostate, post-apostolic, traditional Christianity are wrong.

Mormons believe that Christianity is RIGHT--it's just that you guys aren't a perfect representation of Christianity.

So your accusations are wrong... again.


Do not attack directly the founders of any particular cult, either on moral or intellectual grounds. --Walter Martin

[Father_JD]

LOL.

"Some aspects..."??

jeff...you keep forgetting that everyone here KNOWS current and past statements of LDS leaders. You're not fooling anyone.

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

LOL.

"Some aspects..."??

Yes. (duh) Take a poll of the LDS: "Is post-apostolic Christendom wrong on EVERYTHING?

I bet you a case of Crown Royal--or Royal Crown cola, your choice--that you will get few or no "yes" answers.

jeff...you keep forgetting that everyone here KNOWS current and past statements of LDS leaders.

---I can't forget what is not true. It's not true that everyone here knows squat. Some of the people know many things, and many people know some things, and some people think they know stuff and are wrong.

You're not fooling anyone

--I don't need to fool anyone. Let's debate this ***ertion: Is it true that LDS doctrine is that post-apostolic Christendom has ZERO correct beliefs?

I am ready to debate that anytime you are.

[Father_JD]

Ya want me to qualify my remarks, jeff?

Fine.

Most, if not "everyone", are familiar with LDS leaders comments.

And should you really read BY, and the Pratt boys, they pontificate that historic Christianity had NO TRUTH AT ALL.

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

Ya want me to qualify my remarks, jeff?

---It's not for MY benefit if you qualify them, but YOURS, since otherwise your remarks seem patently untrue.

And should you really read BY, and the Pratt boys, they pontificate that historic Christianity had NO TRUTH AT ALL.

---So you're claiming that what BY and the Pratt boys said on the subject is LDS doctrine? Can you support that claim with evidence? 'Cause I thought what I WANTED to debate was:

Is it true that LDS doctrine is that post-apostolic Christendom has ZERO correct beliefs?

Now, are you up for taking the affirmative position in that debate? Or not?

[Father_JD]

LOL. I'm not saying Mormon leaders' statements were or are OFFICIAL church "doctrine", jeff.

This is yet another convenient Mormon ESCAPE when it gets too hot:

Deny, deny, deny by invoking the "official church doctrine" tactic, or whether it's in the D&C.

Cop outs, cop outs. And you guys wonder when we point out that getting LDS to really pinpoint their doctrine is exactly like nailing Jell-O to a tree!!

I guess you could provide some statements by JS, BY, et al wherein they state that "post-apostolic Christendom" has ANY CORRECT BELIEFS.

This would be quite a trip, jeff. Considering how Mormonism has radically re-defined virtually EVERY major Christian doctrine...

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

LOL. I'm not saying Mormon leaders' statements were or are OFFICIAL church "doctrine", jeff.

---You saw the hole you'd dug for yourself and decided it might be a good idea to stop digging. Good for you. SO, let's summarize what you're NOT saying, then:

1. You are NOT saying that LDS doctrine teaches that historic Christianity has no truth at all.

2. You are NOT saying that a substantial number of LDS people BELIEVE that historic Christianity has no truth at all.

What does that leave you TO say, then? Why did you even **** into my response to Billy, if all you wanted to say is stuff with no substance and no relevance to my re****al?

This is yet another convenient Mormon ESCAPE when it gets too hot:
Deny, deny, deny by invoking the "official church doctrine" tactic, or whether it's in the D&C.

---LOL! So when you make an unfounded accusation, and we DENY the allegation and show how false it is, that's an ESCAPE that is somehow not legitimate? L-O-L !!

"Why won't you stop worshiping Satan?"
I DON'T worship Satan, and I challenge whatever evidence you think you have that supports your accusation."
"Ohhh, what a CONVENIENT ESCAPE--by DENYING the correctness of my accusation, merely because it was a false one!"

Sounds like Spanish Inquisition or Salem Witch Trial reasoning there, FJD.
"The fact that you deny the allegations is proof that you're GUILTY!"

I guess you could provide some statements by JS, BY, et al wherein they state that "post-apostolic Christendom" has ANY CORRECT BELIEFS.

---Sure, but better than that, I can provide official LDS doctrine--scriptures, even--to support that. Or, I can do a survey of the LDS here--people who are apologists for the LDS church, and thus probably have more negative things to say about "historic Christendom" than the AVERAGE LDS member does. And STILL, the poll results would show that LDS don't BELIEVE that "historic Christianity" was TOTALLY DEVOID of any true beliefs. Come on, you picked a loser of an accusation here. You haven't realized that yet?

Do you really think that the average convert from Protestantism to LDSIsm came to some "realization" that NONE of his former beliefs was right? Please. Typically, they probably saw that the LDS offer truth in a few places where their former church's teachings were lacking. Do you REALLY think they say, "Wow, when I was a Methodist, I didn't believe that Jesus was my Savior, but now that I'm LDS, I DO" ???

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Father_JD
LOL. I'm not saying Mormon leaders' statements were or are OFFICIAL church "doctrine", jeff.

---You saw the hole you'd dug for yourself and decided it might be a good idea to stop digging. Good for you. SO, let's summarize what you're NOT saying, then:

1. You are NOT saying that LDS doctrine teaches that historic Christianity has no truth at all.

I'm NOT saying that at all. Your past leaders have made their stance public (thanks to their ****-retentiveness to enshrine their words for all time and eternity) plenty of times, as duly noted in the JOD, etc. What I AM saying is whether "official" or not, that IS MORMON TEACHING.

2. You are NOT saying that a substantial number of LDS people BELIEVE that historic Christianity has no truth at all.

You must have misunderstood, jeff. I maintain that indeed, a substantial number of LDS people DO believe that hsitoric Christianity has NO truth at all despite Mormon LIP SERVICE to the contrary. So tell me, jeff, WHAT do YOU think is TRUE in historic Christianity? Can you even name one Christian doctrine you believe is TRUE??

What does that leave you TO say, then? Why did you even **** into my response to Billy, if all you wanted to say is stuff with no substance and no relevance to my re****al?

Who made you master and commander of the board, jeff? As you oughtta know, everyone is FREE (reflect upon your "free agency" doctrine, 'k?) to jump in at any point.


Quote:
This is yet another convenient Mormon ESCAPE when it gets too hot:
Deny, deny, deny by invoking the "official church doctrine" tactic, or whether it's in the D&C.

---LOL! So when you make an unfounded accusation, and we DENY the allegation and show how false it is, that's an ESCAPE that is somehow not legitimate? L-O-L !!

You've made the baseless ***ertion that LDS actually believe historic Christianity has "some truth". You've NEVER stated what those Christian beliefs are that you supposedly find "true", jeff. C'mon and feel free to pony up instead of engaging in "Glittering Generalities", the hallmark of Mormon thinking!!!

"Why won't you stop worshiping Satan?"
I DON'T worship Satan, and I challenge whatever evidence you think you have that supports your accusation."
"Ohhh, what a CONVENIENT ESCAPE--by DENYING the correctness of my accusation, merely because it was a false one!"

Sounds like Spanish Inquisition or Salem Witch Trial reasoning there, FJD.
"The fact that you deny the allegations is proof that you're GUILTY!"

Where did I make this statement in my posts here on WM? I think you owe me an apology, jeff.

Oh, btw...I think you've never considered your actions in the temple ceremonies wherein you place the figleaf aprons (the sign of Lucifer's whatever) on your torsos.


Quote:
I guess you could provide some statements by JS, BY, et al wherein they state that "post-apostolic Christendom" has ANY CORRECT BELIEFS.

---Sure, but better than that, I can provide official LDS doctrine--scriptures, even--to support that. Or, I can do a survey of the LDS here--people who are apologists for the LDS church, and thus probably have more negative things to say about "historic Christendom" than the AVERAGE LDS member does. And STILL, the poll results would show that LDS don't BELIEVE that "historic Christianity" was TOTALLY DEVOID of any true beliefs. Come on, you picked a loser of an accusation here. You haven't realized that yet?

And just WHAT are those Christian beliefs, jeff?? Please do a survey! I'd love to see the "results".

Do you really think that the average convert from Protestantism to LDSIsm came to some "realization" that NONE of his former beliefs was right? Please. Typically, they probably saw that the LDS offer truth in a few places where their former church's teachings were lacking. Do you REALLY think they say, "Wow, when I was a Methodist, I didn't believe that Jesus was my Savior, but now that I'm LDS, I DO" ???

Oh, finally. "Jesus as SAVIOR". Well, duh. Even though the ontology of the Christian Jesus and the Mormon jesus are radically DIFFERENT, you're gonna include THAT as if that's "evidence", huh?

The differences between WHAT is MEANT by "SAVIOR" by Christians and LDS are as wide as the Grand Canyon, jeff.

[nrajeff]

Just for FJD: Doctrines/practices in "traditional Christianity" that I think are correct:

1. Jesus is the Son of God.
2. Jesus is the savior of mankind.
3. Jesus is the only way to salvation.
4. Jesus died for people's sins.
5. Jesus was resurrected.
6. Jesus was born of a virgin in Bethlehem.
7. Jesus taught a gospel of faith, repentence, charity, etc.
8. Baptism is a good thing.
9. Jesus established a church in the first century, and appointed apostles to help lead, teach, and run it.
10. The Nativity didn't really occur in December.
11. Arianism is not a 100%-correct theology.
12. Some kind of rapture will occur at some point in the future.
13. Jesus will return to Planet Earth and fix our messes and reign in peace for a long time.
14. When wicked people die, they have to go to a place where they hang out with others like themselves until Resurrection and Judgment Days.
15. When the righteous die, they get to await Resurrection and Judgment in a place that's nicer than the place where the wicked go to wait.

See? You guys got a lotta things right. Of course, the list of things you got WRONG might be a longer list, but still...you got SOME right!

[Father_JD]

With the exceptions of points 5 and 12, all else has been radically re-defined by Mormonism and has nothing in common with historic Christianity, jeff.

You've had to "pull your punches" on at least six or seven as well...steering clear of any real depth of the differences, but demonstrating superficial agreement.

If you'd like me to contrast/compare each so-called commonalities, I'll be happy to do so, but right now I'm getting kicked off of this fine, public library computer on Foothill Blvd. in SLC, UT...just about a mile from where I grew up.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Pahoran

So, IOW, this board is committed to a long-discredited canard (see here) which no-one is permitted to challenge.

Got it.

Regards,
Pahoran

How can it be discredited? The Jesus of mormonism is a created being.. The Jesus of Christianity is God. The God that has been God from everlasting the God who will be God to everlasting.. Mormonism isn't that this created person mormons call Jesus. Mormonism had denied the Jesus of Christianity for as long as I can remember. Even your prophet denied Him Mormons believe in the same Jesus as Christianity:

"In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ.' 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.'" (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7).

After such an admission how do you dare insist that you are a Christian? Even your leaders say that they don't believe in the Jesus of the Bible because He is the ONLY traditional Christ.. IHS jim

[Blueskies]

Originally Posted by Pahoran

Under the rubric of derogatory terms: what is the value of a term like "cult," which serves no other purpose than to demonise its target?

On another forum, an LDS participant from this board claimed that he had been told that the term "LDS Christian" was regarded as "derogatory" or in some way offensive, and should therefore not be used, because the board administrators hold that Mormonism is not Christian.

Is that correct?

Granted that this is the position of the board, why must Latter-day Saint followers of Jesus of Nazareth tacitly ***ent to what they rightly view as a canard in order to participate here?

Regards,
Pahoran

Pahoran,
I am sorry that you feel this way but I am not Jill and it is not my place to tell her how to run this website. Mormons want so badly to look Christian and be part of Mainstream Christianity but you're not and here's why:

Is There More Than One True God?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that there is only one True and Living God and apart from Him there are no other Gods (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 43:10,11; 44:6,8; 45:21,22; 46:9; Mark 12:29-34).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that there are many Gods (Book of Abraham 4:3ff), and that we can become gods and goddesses in the celestial kingdom (Doctrine and Covenants 132:19-20; Gospel Principles, p. 245; Achieving a Celestial Marriage, p. 130). It also teaches that those who achieve godhood will have spirit children who will worship and pray to them, just as we worship and pray to God the Father (Gospel Principles, p. 302).

2. Was God Once a Man Like Us?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that God is Spirit (John 4:24; 1 Timothy 6:15,16), He is not a man (Numbers 23:19; Hosea 11:9; Romans 1:22, 23), and has always (eternally) existed as God — all powerful, all knowing, and everywhere present (Psalm 90:2; 139:7-10; Isaiah 40:28; Luke 1:37).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that God the Father was once a man like us who progressed to become a God and has a body of flesh and bone (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22; "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!" from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-347; Gospel Principles, p. 9; Articles of Faith, p. 430; Mormon Doctrine, p. 321). Indeed, the Mormon Church teaches that God himself has a father, and a grandfather, ad infinitum (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 373; Mormon Doctrine, p. 577).

3. Are Jesus and Satan Spirit Brothers?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that Jesus is the unique Son of God; he has always existed as God, and is co-eternal and co-equal with the Father (John 1:1, 14; 10:30; 14:9; Colossians 2:9). While never less than God, at the appointed time He laid aside the glory He shared with the Father (John 17:4, 5; Philippians 2:6-11) and was made flesh for our salvation; His incarnation was accomplished through being conceived supernaturally by the Holy Spirit and born of a virgin (Matthew 1:18-23; Luke 1:34-35).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that Jesus Christ is our elder brother who progressed to godhood, having first been procreated as a spirit child by Heavenly Father and a heavenly mother; He was later conceived physically through intercourse between Heavenly Father and the virgin Mary (D&C 93:21; Journal of Discourses, 1:50-51; Gospel Principles, p. 11-13; Achieving a Celestial Marriage, p. 129; Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 546-547; 742; Ezra Taft Benson, Come unto Christ, p. 4; Robert L. Millet, The Mormon Faith: Understanding Restored Christianity, p. 31). Mormon doctrine affirms that Jesus, all angels, Lucifer, all demons, and all human beings are originally spirit brothers and sisters (Abraham 3:22-27; Moses 4:1-2; Gospel Principles, pp. 17-18; Mormon Doctrine, p. 192).

4. Is God a Trinity?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost are not separate Gods or separate beings, but are distinct Persons within the one Triune Godhead. Throughout the New Testament the Son and the Holy Spirit, as well as the Father are separately identified as and act as God (Son: Mark 2:5-12; John 20:28; Philippians 2:10,11; Holy Spirit: Acts 5:3,4; 2 Corinthians 3:17,18; 13:14); yet at the same time the Bible teaches that these three are only one God (see point 1).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three separate Gods (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 576-577), and that the Son and Holy Ghost are the literal offspring of Heavenly Father and a celestial wife (Joseph Fielding McConkie, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, vol. 2, p. 649).

5. Was The Sin Of Adam and Eve a Great Evil Or a Great Blessing?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the disobedience of our first parents Adam and Eve was a great evil. Through their fall sin entered the world, bringing all human beings under condemnation and death. Thus we are born with a sinful nature, and will be judged for the sins we commit as individuals. (Ezekiel 18:1-20; Romans 5:12-21).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that Adam’s sin was "a necessary step in the plan of life and a great blessing to all of us" (Gospel Principles, p. 33; Book of Mormon — 2 Nephi 2:25; Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 114-115).

6. Can We Make Ourselves Worthy Before God?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that apart from the saving work of Jesus Christ on the cross we are spiritually "dead in tresp***es and sins" (Ephesians 2:1,5) and are powerless to save ourselves. By grace alone, apart from self-righteous works, God forgives our sins and makes us worthy to live in His presence (Ephesians 2:8-9; ***us 3:5-6). Our part is only to cling to Christ in heartfelt faith. (However, it is certainly true that without the evidence of changed conduct, a person’s testimony of faith in Christ must be questioned; salvation by grace alone through faith, does not mean we can live as we please — Romans 6:1-4).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that eternal life in the presence of God (which it terms "exaltation in the celestial kingdom") must be earned through obedience to all the commands of the Mormon Church, including exclusive Mormon temple rituals. Works are a requirement for salvation (entrance into the "celestial kingdom") — Gospel Principles, p. 303-304; Pearl of Great Price — Third Article of Faith; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 339, 671; Book of Mormon — 2 Nephi 25:23).

7. Does Christ's Atoning Death Benefit Those Who Reject Him?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the purpose of the atoning work of Christ on the cross was to provide the complete solution for humankind’s sin problem. However, those who reject God’s grace in this life will have no part in this salvation but are under the judgment of God for eternity (John 3:36; Hebrews 9:27; 1 John 5:11-12).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that the purpose of the atonement was to bring resurrection and immortality to all people, regardless of whether they receive Christ by faith. Christ’s atonement is only a partial basis for worthiness and eternal life, which also requires obedience to all the commands of the Mormon church, including exclusive Mormon temple rituals (Gospel Principles, pp. 74-75; Mormon Doctrine, p. 669).

8. Is The Bible The Unique and Final Word of God?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the Bible is the unique, final and infallible Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 1:1,2; 2 Peter 1:21) and that it will stand forever (1 Peter 1:23-25). God’s providential preservation of the text of the Bible was marvelously illustrated in the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that the Bible has been corrupted, is missing many "plain and precious parts" and does not contain the fullness of the Gospel (Book of Mormon — 1 Nephi 13:26-29; Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, pp. 190-191).

9. Did The Early Church Fall Into Total Apostasy?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the true Church was divinely established by Jesus and could never and will never disappear from the earth (Matthew 16:18; John 15:16; 17:11). Christians acknowledge that there have been times of corruption and apostasy within the Church, but believe there has always been a remnant that held fast to the biblical essentials.

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that there was a great and total apostasy of the Church as established by Jesus Christ; this state of apostasy "still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" of the Mormon Church (Gospel Principles, pp. 105-106; Mormon Doctrine, p. 44).
http://www.irr.org/mit/is-mormonism-christian.html

These are the reasons why Mormons can NEVER be considered Christians. JS tried really hard to make his new found religion sound Christian but any solid Christian can see the grave errors within it. I am truly sorry and I hope this clears up any questions you had as to why Mormons are not Christian. Anyone can say they believe in Jesus but if he's not the one that the Bible speaks of, then you've done nothing more than create for yourself an idol.

[Mesenja]

Christian history is full of heresies,heretics,and heretical groups who were nevertheless considered Christian. Calvinism is a minority view in Christianity. Your argument therefore is absurd if used against other Christian denominations. So what makes your argument suddenly any better against us?

Originally Posted by Father_JD

Yeah. I don't believe what Mormonism teaches,but that makes me "Mormon".

Get real,Mesenja.

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

Christian history is full of heresies,heretics,and heretical groups who were nevertheless considered Christian. Calvinism is a minority view in Christianity. Your argument therefore is absurd if used against other Christian denominations. So what makes your argument suddenly any better against us?

LOL. You MEAN those heretics who considered THEMSELVES, "Christian" just like Mormon heretics.

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

LOL. You MEAN those heretics who considered THEMSELVES, "Christian" just like Mormon heretics.

--Oh, yeah: Just because John Wesley "considered" himself a Christian, if FJD 'feeeeels' like Wesley WASN'T one because Wesley said that Christendom had lost its way, then the world must bow down to FJD's feelings on who is and isn't a Christian, and brand John Wesley a non-Christian.

But I don't recall voting for you to be the "who is a Christian" czar, FJD. I mean, sure, Obama is creating a new czar over SOMETHING every other month or so, but still, I don't think he's gotten around to YOUR self-appointed *** yet.....

[Father_JD]

One is defined as "Christian" by what one believes, jeff.

Regrettably, Mormonism has virtually NOTHING in common with Biblical Christianity.

And, btw...Wesley was an ANGLICAN PRIEST as am I.

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

LOL. You MEAN those heretics who considered THEMSELVES,"Christian" just like Mormon heretics.

A heretic is still a professed believer who maintains religious opinions contrary to those accepted by his or her church or rejects doctrines prescribed by that church.