Was God hoping to make another Eve for Adam?

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

I recently spoke to a JW who ***erted (like every orthodox Christian I have come across also ***erts), that Adam did wrong in following Eve, and didn't need to choose to follow her because God could have made another Eve for him.

Do all orthodox Christians believe this?

Was God hoping to make another Eve for Adam? --And make as many as it took to find an Eve that would never yield to temptation?

What would have happened then?

[dfoJC]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

I recently spoke to a JW who ***erted (like every orthodox Christian I have come across also ***erts), that Adam did wrong in following Eve, and didn't need to choose to follow her because God could have made another Eve for him.

Do all orthodox Christians believe this?

Was God hoping to make another Eve for Adam? --And make as many as it took to find an Eve that would never yield to temptation?

What would have happened then?

Yes, Adam did wrong. No, God would not have made another Eve. So, no, I don't believe this.

The fact is, if Adam had not sinned, someone would have eventually. Why do I say this? Well, because the Word makes a big distinction between the "1st Adam" and the "Last Adam." The 1st was the disobedient one. The Second was Obedient. I used to be a son of the first, I am no longer. I am now a son of the Last.

Take care,
dfoJC

[akaSeerone]

Another irrelevant OP for this forum.

You have a very bad habit of not following the format of this forum....why is that?

Andy

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by dfoJC

Yes, Adam did wrong. No, God would not have made another Eve. So, no, I don't believe this.

So, you think that Adam's choice was 1) Make the right choice to separate himself from Eve, and remain alone forever in the garden of Eden without Eve who would have been cast out and eventually die. or 2) Make the wrong choice and follow Eve to whom he was married, and have a family.

Or was there another choice, given the fact that God would not create another Eve for him.

Originally Posted by dfoJC

The fact is, if Adam had not sinned, someone would have eventually.

Or another Eve would have been deceived as well, perhaps.

Originally Posted by dfoJC

Why do I say this? Well, because the Word makes a big distinction between the "1st Adam" and the "Last Adam." The 1st was the disobedient one. The Second was Obedient. I used to be a son of the first, I am no longer. I am now a son of the Last.

Take care,
dfoJC

Thanks for your input, dfoJC

[Vlad III]

Originally Posted by akaSeerone

Another irrelevant OP for this forum.

You have a very bad habit of not following the format of this forum....why is that?

Andy

Ironic....

[Vlad III]

Originally Posted by dfoJC

Yes, Adam did wrong. No, God would not have made another Eve. So, no, I don't believe this.

The fact is, if Adam had not sinned, someone would have eventually. Why do I say this? Well, because the Word makes a big distinction between the "1st Adam" and the "Last Adam." The 1st was the disobedient one. The Second was Obedient. I used to be a son of the first, I am no longer. I am now a son of the Last.

Take care,
dfoJC

First, I hadn't heard that idea - that God could create a new Eve to replace the fallen one. Interesting thought.

Second, it sounds like dofc is saying something different than other Christians. Most Christians say that if Adam and Eve had not eaten the fruit all of humanity would have lived in the garden in perfection and purity. But you are saying that if they hadn't eatn of the fruit, SOMEONE would have and the fall would have still happened, banishment would still happen, and sin would still happen, etc..It was inevitable, then, that the fall happen.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by akaSeerone

Another irrelevant OP for this forum.

You have a very bad habit of not following the format of this forum....why is that?

Andy

Andy you see that all Vlad can say is "ironic".. These what if this, or what if that are meaningless.. What happened is what happened and we are not responsible for what God would have done if Adam had decided not to sin. It is a silly point because it didn't happen the way these mormons would like to have see it happen.. Jesus said something about looking beyond Him to other people these circumstances seem to bring this into same perspective.. What has that to do with you? You Need to follow Jesus.. To bad that mormons can't see this they are living in the "WHAT IF" land of fantasy.. IHS jim

[akaSeerone]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Andy you see that all Vlad can say is "ironic".. These what if this, or what if that are meaningless.. What happened is what happened and we are not responsible for what God would have done if Adam had decided not to sin. It is a silly point because it didn't happen the way these mormons would like to have see it happen.. Jesus said something about looking beyond Him to other people these circumstances seem to bring this into same perspective.. What has that to do with you? You Need to follow Jesus.. To bad that mormons can't see this they are living in the "WHAT IF" land of fantasy.. IHS jim

Yep, the what if are total foolishness and have nothing to do with mormon doctrine.....Just so much "Jib Jab" to try and take peoples minds off mormonism and show everyone how Biblically illiterate they are....and they are doing a very good *** at the illiterate thing.

AND then there is the fact that after God created Adam and Eve He said it was perfect/good and that totally shoots down their nonsense.

Either way the OP is against the formant of this forum.

Andy

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

I recently spoke to a JW who ***erted (like every orthodox Christian I have come across also ***erts), that Adam did wrong in following Eve, and didn't need to choose to follow her because God could have made another Eve for him.

Do all orthodox Christians believe this?

Was God hoping to make another Eve for Adam? --And make as many as it took to find an Eve that would never yield to temptation?

What would have happened then?

What was the right choice for Adam to make? Eve had eaten, meaning she would need to leave the garden and eventually die.

Since orthodoxy teaches that Adam made the wrong choice, I ask, what were Adam's choices? And what would have been the "right" choice for him to make?

And if Adam has perpetually made the right choice, what would have been the outcome? The consequence? Especially if God never intended to make another Eve for him?

Would it mean that ideally, if Adam always made the right choice, that he would forever be alone in the Garden of Eden, while Eve would have been alone outside of the Garden of Eden until she died. Right?

Then what?

I think it is good to think about these things, rather than to ignore such questions and discourage them. Questions lead to understanding and knowledge, after all.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

What was the right choice for Adam to make? Eve had eaten, meaning she would need to leave the garden and eventually die.

Since orthodoxy teaches that Adam made the wrong choice, I ask, what were Adam's choices? And what would have been the "right" choice for him to make?

And if Adam has perpetually made the right choice, what would have been the outcome? The consequence? Especially if God never intended to make another Eve for him?

Would it mean that ideally, if Adam always made the right choice, that he would forever be alone in the Garden of Eden, while Eve would have been alone outside of the Garden of Eden until she died. Right?

Then what?

I think it is good to think about these things, rather than to ignore such questions and discourage them. Questions lead to understanding and knowledge, after all.

Please explain what good talking about a "what if" is? Why not understand what happened instead of making up more fiction? It is appearing that mormonism thrives on fiction and shies away from actual truth.. IHS jim

[Vlad III]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Please explain what good talking about a "what if" is? Why not understand what happened instead of making up more fiction? It is appearing that mormonism thrives on fiction and shies away from actual truth.. IHS jim

james,

It isn't a matter of wondering "what if". It's a matter of taking what actually happened and then trying to understand what the other options could have been available for Adam to not have sinned. If I recall correctly, you are one of those that believes that had Adam and Eve not eaten the fruit, all of us would have still been born and all of us would have lived in the perfect garden as perfect people. But others say that sin and falling was inevitable and had it not been Adam and Eve it would have eventually been another person.

[dfoJC]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

What was the right choice for Adam to make? Eve had eaten, meaning she would need to leave the garden and eventually die.

Since orthodoxy teaches that Adam made the wrong choice, I ask, what were Adam's choices? And what would have been the "right" choice for him to make?

The bible teaches that Adam did indeed make the wrong choice, I have never read in the Bible anywhere where "Eve's sin" is spoken of, however, you can find "Adam's sin." His choices were simple, obedience, or disobedience. And as you LDS are so fond of saying, "obedience is necessary..."(BTW, I agree and believe in obedience.)

And if Adam has perpetually made the right choice, what would have been the outcome? The consequence? Especially if God never intended to make another Eve for him?

He would have lived his life in obedience to God's one command. And I believe it would have been in the garden. However, I do not believe he would have lived there alone. This is sheer speculation on my part, because this story has all ready been lived, and told.

Would it mean that ideally, if Adam always made the right choice, that he would forever be alone in the Garden of Eden, while Eve would have been alone outside of the Garden of Eden until she died. Right? Then what?

The one thing that God desired was relationship with His creation. So I would think that He would have figured out a way for Adam & Eve to continue to go on living together in the garden, after all, is He not The God of forgiveness?

I think it is good to think about these things, rather than to ignore such questions and discourage them. Questions lead to understanding and knowledge, after all.

But as well, questions can lead to confusion and misunderstanding, however, your questions do have some legitimacy, thus it is good to explore the possibilities. Knowledge is good, if it profits something. I have yet to determine if what we are discussing is profitable or not, but, that will be revealed sooner or later, no?

Take care,
dfoJC

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Vlad III

james,

It isn't a matter of wondering "what if". It's a matter of taking what actually happened and then trying to understand what the other options could have been available for Adam to not have sinned. If I recall correctly, you are one of those that believes that had Adam and Eve not eaten the fruit, all of us would have still been born and all of us would have lived in the perfect garden as perfect people. But others say that sin and falling was inevitable and had it not been Adam and Eve it would have eventually been another person.

There are no other options.. What happened happened! Here is the point God gave Adam two commandments.. That is fact. One was not to eat the fruit. The other was to reproduce and fill the earth.. I am one of those weird people that believe God doesn't give contradictory commandments.. That God doesn't force anyone into sin that goes even for Adam.. Therefore God's perfect will would have been realized and we would have entered a perfect world had sin not have tainted all things.

Tell me why is it you claim the statement of Nephi only for what you want your god to do and not a statement as to the nature of the real God.. Remember what Nephi said about the commandments of God..

1 Nephi 3:7
And it came to p*** that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.

Now talk about what is and forget about "WHAT IF".. IHS jim

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Please explain what good talking about a "what if" is? Why not understand what happened instead of making up more fiction? It is appearing that mormonism thrives on fiction and shies away from actual truth.. IHS jim

Well, you are speculating, aren't you, when you ***ert that Adam made the wrong decision. So, I think the question is a good one, and it spurs thought. And thought is good.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Fig

Originally Posted by dfoJC

What was the right choice for Adam to make? Eve had eaten, meaning she would need to leave the garden and eventually die.

Since orthodoxy teaches that Adam made the wrong choice, I ask, what were Adam's choices? And what would have been the "right" choice for him to make?

The bible teaches that Adam did indeed make the wrong choice, I have never read in the Bible anywhere where "Eve's sin" is spoken of, however, you can find "Adam's sin." His choices were simple, obedience, or disobedience. And as you LDS are so fond of saying, "obedience is necessary..."(BTW, I agree and believe in obedience.)

I'm glad you believe in obedience.

Originally Posted by Fig

Originally Posted by dfoJC

And if Adam has perpetually made the right choice, what would have been the outcome? The consequence? Especially if God never intended to make another Eve for him?

He would have lived his life in obedience to God's one command. And I believe it would have been in the garden. However, I do not believe he would have lived there alone. This is sheer speculation on my part, because this story has all ready been lived, and told.

So, if Adam made the "right" decision, as you say, then either God was ready to make another Eve for him, OR, God was willing to erase the consequences of Eve's transgression by forgiving her of her sin. That's all I can think of.

Originally Posted by Fig

Originally Posted by dfoJC

Would it mean that ideally, if Adam always made the right choice, that he would forever be alone in the Garden of Eden, while Eve would have been alone outside of the Garden of Eden until she died. Right? Then what?

The one thing that God desired was relationship with His creation. So I would think that He would have figured out a way for Adam & Eve to continue to go on living together in the garden, after all, is He not The God of forgiveness?

Yes. He is that too.

Thanks, dfoJC. I just wanted to know what more orthodox Christians would say about this.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by James Banta

There are no other options.. What happened happened! Here is the point God gave Adam two commandments.. That is fact. One was not to eat the fruit. The other was to reproduce and fill the earth.. I am one of those weird people that believe God doesn't give contradictory commandments.. That God doesn't force anyone into sin that goes even for Adam.. Therefore God's perfect will would have been realized and we would have entered a perfect world had sin not have tainted all things.

So, what were Adam's options AFTER Eve already ate? And do you think Adam considered the consequences?

1. Do the "right" thing, and separate from Eve--leaving her alone outside the garden, eventually to die, while he remained in the Garden, without a wife, forever. And this gets back to my question, of whether God was ready to make another Eve for Adam so he wouldn't be alone.

or.

2. Do the "wrong" thing and stay united with his wife, and have a family with her.

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by James Banta

There are no other options.. What happened happened! Here is the point God gave Adam two commandments.. That is fact. One was not to eat the fruit. The other was to reproduce and fill the earth.. I am one of those weird people that believe God doesn't give contradictory commandments.. That God doesn't force anyone into sin that goes even for Adam.. Therefore God's perfect will would have been realized and we would have entered a perfect world had sin not have tainted all things.

You are correct, God does not give contradictory commandments, when they are obeyed. But when one is obeyed then a contradiction can exist because of our disobedience.

When Eve told Adam what she had done, he then had a choice of which commandment to disobey, he could not obey both. He could refuse to partake of the fruit but that would mean that he could not follow the second comnmandment. Or he could disobey the first commandment, partake of the fruit and then be able to obey the second commandment. There was no problem as long as both parties in the Garden obeyed both commandments. The conflict arose when Eve partook of the fruit.

Originally Posted by James Banta

Tell me why is it you claim the statement of Nephi only for what you want your god to do and not a statement as to the nature of the real God.. Remember what Nephi said about the commandments of God..

1 Nephi 3:7
And it came to p*** that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.

Now talk about what is and forget about "WHAT IF".. IHS jim

As I pointed out above, there was no conflict as long as both obeyed both commandments. The problem was created by Eve breaking one of the commandments. The way was provided, all they had to do is obey both commandments. You can't blame God for problems that they created by disobeying the commandments.

Marvin

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

So, what were Adam's options AFTER Eve already ate? And do you think Adam considered the consequences?

1. Do the "right" thing, and separate from Eve--leaving her alone outside the garden, eventually to die, while he remained in the Garden, without a wife, forever. And this gets back to my question, of whether God was ready to make another Eve for Adam so he wouldn't be alone.

or.

2. Do the "wrong" thing and stay united with his wife, and have a family with her.

Its more complicated that just one right thing. If Adam obeyed one commandment he could not obey the other. That is the real situation he found himself in.

Marvin

[nrajeff]

Most or all of the Evangelicals whom I have seen comment on this question have said that Adam blew it for the entire human race when he decided to join Eve. They said that the "plan" was for Adam and Eve to both remain in the garden, immortal and sinless, and to have billions of immortal, sinless children. Adam screwed that whole plan up and basically should be hated for the traitor to the human race that he is.

So, if Adam, seeing that Eve had disobeyed, was supposed to just sit it out and wait until a replacement wife who could AVOID eating the fruit was created, then wouldn't that have made Adam a.....

.........







..........


POLYGAMIST?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

So, what were Adam's options AFTER Eve already ate? And do you think Adam considered the consequences?

1. Do the "right" thing, and separate from Eve--leaving her alone outside the garden, eventually to die, while he remained in the Garden, without a wife, forever. And this gets back to my question, of whether God was ready to make another Eve for Adam so he wouldn't be alone.

or.

2. Do the "wrong" thing and stay united with his wife, and have a family with her.

There was only one right thing to do but Adam didn't do that. He stopped trusting God and trusted his feeling instead.. That done it was done. Adam made a mess of the perfect world God have given to him and surrendered it to Satan. From that time all the world was tainted by the sin of the man. God had to come as a Savior to rescue us from a condition we could do nothing about.. Was Adam wrong for doing what he did? YES! Should he have trusted God? YES! But know he allowed feeling to rule him moving God from the first place in his heart and mind to second place behind his wife.. That is idolatry. Adam's sin was far wore than Eve's she was deceived, Adam chose to disobey. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

Its more complicated that just one right thing. If Adam obeyed one commandment he could not obey the other. That is the real situation he found himself in.

Marvin

I can see by this statement that you don't trust God and His power either.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

[Russianwolfe;63827]You are correct, God does not give contradictory commandments, when they are obeyed. But when one is obeyed then a contradiction can exist because of our disobedience

.

This is a perfect statement of the condition of mormonism. "when one (commandment) is obeyed then a contradiction can exist because of our disobedience.. I would love to understand how you spin obedience into disobedience.. God gives No contradictory commandment at all.. Never is one given that requires another to be broken. That would be an evil God would never force of man..

Mormonism teaches that for man to be Adam had to sin. But God's commands were clear.. Don't eat the fruit but still be fruitful. Mormons teach these as contradictory commandments making God out to be the one who causes sin. That is of course blasphemy.

When Eve told Adam what she had done, he then had a choice of which commandment to disobey, he could not obey both. He could refuse to partake of the fruit but that would mean that he could not follow the second comnmandment. Or he could disobey the first commandment, partake of the fruit and then be able to obey the second commandment. There was no problem as long as both parties in the Garden obeyed both commandments. The conflict arose when Eve partook of the fruit.

Of he could have trusted in God and allowed God to repair the problem. But No Adam took the issue into his own hands and thereby committed sin.. He was faithless to God allowing His love for his with to overshadow his love for God. But you don't see that as sin do you?

This is really what you believe? That Adam and Eve, before Eve was deceived into taking the fruit, could have had children while in the Garden? That isn't the standard teaching of the church.. As a TBM I was taught that they were not capable of having children until they took the fruit. This is a new twist of the scripture and one I am sure the brethren would not agree with you.. This is a private doctrine one you can't support either in the Bible or in mormonism.. Just because Eve failed to keep God's word doesn't make Adam a sinner.. What he should have done is put his faith in God and waited on Him to resolve the problem.. But No Adam thought He would fix it. After all it was just a small piece of fruit..

Your "what if" here doesn't matter. The facts are that Adam did take the fruit and God still in His knowledge and wisdom had a plan to repair the damage done by these first sins.. IHS jim

[Sentinus]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

I recently spoke to a JW who ***erted (like every orthodox Christian I have come across also ***erts), that Adam did wrong in following Eve, and didn't need to choose to follow her because God could have made another Eve for him.

Do all orthodox Christians believe this?

Was God hoping to make another Eve for Adam? --And make as many as it took to find an Eve that would never yield to temptation?

What would have happened then?

Originally Posted by Figs

(like every orthodox Christian I have come across also ***erts), that Adam did wrong in following Eve, and didn't need to choose to follow her because God could have made another Eve for him.

CFR on this, find another source that verifies your belief that your statement is indeed "Orthodox Christian" in nature, No doubt it should be easy for you to find someone, anyone that has taught this idea.. Please provide links instead of your weak hearsay.

[Sentinus]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

Most or all of the Evangelicals whom I have seen comment on this question have said that Adam blew it for the entire human race when he decided to join Eve. They said that the "plan" was for Adam and Eve to both remain in the garden, immortal and sinless, and to have billions of immortal, sinless children. Adam screwed that whole plan up and basically should be hated for the traitor to the human race that he is.

So, if Adam, seeing that Eve had disobeyed, was supposed to just sit it out and wait until a replacement wife who could AVOID eating the fruit was created, then wouldn't that have made Adam a.....

.........










..........


POLYGAMIST?

Lets get past all the hearsay, why not provide a link to any "Christian leader" that has taught this... I have heard LDS say all sorts of things, yet I am told that their thoughts are of no authority, neither are yours or Figs, as of yet no one has shown any documentation that this is taught or being taught.. I'll wait.. Also please ensure that context is provided in your ***ertions..

[Sentinus]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

Most or all of the Evangelicals whom I have seen comment on this question have said that Adam blew it for the entire human race when he decided to join Eve. They said that the "plan" was for Adam and Eve to both remain in the garden, immortal and sinless, and to have billions of immortal, sinless children. Adam screwed that whole plan up and basically should be hated for the traitor to the human race that he is.

So, if Adam, seeing that Eve had disobeyed, was supposed to just sit it out and wait until a replacement wife who could AVOID eating the fruit was created, then wouldn't that have made Adam a.....

.........










..........


POLYGAMIST?

Lets get past all the hearsay, why not provide a link to any "Christian leader" that has taught this... I have heard LDS say all sorts of things, yet I am told that their thoughts are of no authority, neither are yours or Figs, as of yet no one has shown any documentation that this is taught or being taught.. I'll wait.. Also please ensure that context is provided in your ***ertions..