Was God hoping to make another Eve for Adam?

[alanmolstad]

Eve was lied to and deceived.

The common understanding is that when the Bible tells us that Eve was deceived that it must be talking about the conversation she has with the snake.

My opinion is that if you only have her being deceived by the snake you don't fully understand the whole story.

The story of Eve's being deceived starts way before her conversation with the snake, and it starts to be more about her relationship with her husband.

When the Bible tells us later that she "gave also to her husband who was with her," we start to see that she was being truly manipulated in this story to take the blame.

So we see that Adam was there the whole time.
He was not off fixing a flower cart somewhere .
Adam was right there the whole time Eve was talking to the snake...
So Adam knew what was happening...
Adam knew that when Eve tells the snake this part of the Law (that was not really part of the Law) he had to know it was a sin.

There is simply no way around this...Adam was there,
Adam was listening to his wife speak...
Heard her say this error...
knew that the addition to the Law was totally in error and therefore a sin...

Yet he says nothing?


Now in the commentaries we read on this problem we find that writers struggle hard to find a reason why Adam did not speak up?
The common answer the many commentators have to answer this mystery is to try to make it seem that Adam was not with Eve at the time.

Even though the Text says clearly that Adam was there.
They need to make him be not there to make the story work the way they want it to work.


That is where I differ.

I differ with all the commentaries because I don't have a need to write Adam out of the story.

I simply read the text as it was written and allow it to tell me its story.

The story as written is that Adam was there.
Adam hears Eve make this error about the Law and Adam says nothing to correct her.
The Bible's context has presented it clearly that only Adam was told the Law by God, and that Eve had to learn the Law from him.

That is just a fact of the bible's context.

So this points us to the only conclusion we can come to that :If Eve was not told the Law but had to receive the Law from Adam...and if she repeats the Law as she does with the clear error in it, she is either telling a lie, or she has been lied to!

Eve either lied to the snake.....or......Adam lied to her beforehand when he taught her the Law.



So what is the answer?...

The answer we find in the Text is that the Bible never calls Eve as being guilty of telling a lie,so this means Eve had been lied to by Adam when he taught her what the Law was.

And as Eve had to trust her husband to teach her the Law (as there was no other way for here to learn the Law), she had to have been "deceived" by both Satan and her husband Adam.



thus when I read the Bible describe Eve's actions in this story I can see how truly the Bible is correct when it says of Eve that she was "Deceived".

[MickeyS]

"we see that Adam was there the whole time"

The Bible does not say Eve was with Adam when she spoke to Satan. You have not shown that it does. At the very most (IF the English translation "with her" meant what you believe it did) it states he was there when she gave him the fruit. Several things happened in the text.

Satan spoke with Eve about the fruit
She saw the fruit, she considered the fruit, she thought about it making her wise
She took the fruit
She ate the fruit
She gave some to her husband.

Several steps there....the first of which was speaking to Satan. The Bible does not state at which point Adam was with her. Stop adding what isn't there. Adam is never mentioned during the conversation with Satan. Quit adding what is not there.

So let's break it down and look at Adams action and his consequence.

Adam stated he was given the fruit by his wife, and he ate (two actions, took the fruit from his wife, ate it)
God said because he listened to his wife and ate the fruit that he was forbidden to eat....consequence given.(two actions, took the fruit from his wife, ate it)

God was repeating back to Adam what Adam had admitted doing. Simple

The consequence given by God was in direct correlation with the action spoken by Adam. Him taking the fruit from Eve, him eating the fruit he was commanded not to. So the "hearkening" that he did was to Eve when he took the fruit. The fact that he "hearkened" means he listened to her.

It doesn't get any simpler than that. He was not there.

But the problem still lies in your continued claim of Adams great "deception" which is, of course, completely IMPOSSIBLE. And you point that fact out several times.

"Adam was listening to his wife speak...
Heard her say this error...
knewthat the addition to the Law was totally in error and therefore a sin.."

"Adam knew what was happening...
Adam knew that when Eve tells the snake this part of the Law (that was not really part of the Law) he had to know it was a sin.

With only one commandment on the table
"Thou shalt not eat the fruit"
How would Adam have known anything else was wrong....before eating the fruit of KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL?

He wouldn't, it's impossible. You are writing THE FRUIT out of the story and rendering it completely useless. If Adam knew good from evil before eating the fruit...what exactly was it the fruit was supposed to do?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

"
With only one commandment on the table
"Thou shalt not eat the fruit"
How would Adam have known anything else was wrong....before eating the fruit of KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL?

He wouldn't, it's impossible. You are writing THE FRUIT out of the story and rendering it completely useless. If Adam knew good from evil before eating the fruit...what exactly was it the fruit was supposed to do?

And that is the material point--Adam did not know good from evil. Therefore, you are right--on this basis alone, Alan's theory cannot be correct.

[alanmolstad]

try to talk among yourselves...

(alan sick this week)

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

try to talk among yourselves...

(alan sick this week)

Sorry you have been sick. I hope you get feeling better soon.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Sorry you have been sick. I hope you get feeling better soon.

and now the wife has got it! (*^$@%_(&%#!#!!!

But Im feeling better...

I cant remember where I was in this subject, so if anyone has a question or a comment to kick-start the conversation, now would be a good time....

[alanmolstad]

thus.....

The topic was ***led dealing with the question - was it God's plan to replace Eve with another woman?

And I think I have shown that there may have been a plan to replace Eve, but it was really looking that it was Adam's plan.

[alanmolstad]

what the deal seems to be with the story and the fall of man is the following.

God planted a tree right smack in the middle of the garden that Adam was banned from eating, yet was told to tend to it and help it grow.

Adam wanted to eat from that tree.
But Adam did not want to die.
So Adam did not eat from it.

Then Eve comes along, and God tells Adam and Eve they both get to rule over the whole world.

But Adam now has a plan....

Adam comes up with a plan to eat of the forbidden tree and yet live.
The plan is to get Eve to take the blame for his eating, and have her die in punishment,

The snake seems to be aware of this plan.

The snake approaches both Adam and Eve, and talks to them.

Eve answers the snake and tells the snake the law that she learned from Adam.
The law she reports has an error within it.

Adam does not correct Eve
The snake does not correct Eve.

Eve listens to the snake and gets convinced that eating is a good idea.

Eve eats
Adam does not reach for the food, but waits for Eve to hand him some
Adam eats.

God speaks now.

Adam puts the blame onto his wife, knowing that this will likely get her killed according to the Law.

Eve points to the snake.

The snake does not seem to need to speak.

God casts the snake down to the earth.
God tells Eve that she will be ruled over by her husband
God informs Adam what his death will be like.

Adam and Eve get kicked out of the protected garden and face a future ....

Only then, only when Adam finally sees that he is going to be stuck with his wife and that she will not be killed and replaced, only then does he get around to calling her by a real name.,,,before this she was only "the woman".