As of late the mormons of the forum:

[Sir]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

You will never understand the true deity of Jesus Christ.Your founder had the same desire as the devil. To be a god. You have blasphemed Christ by saying he is nothing more than your spirit brother and the brother of the devil. Mormonism is about men becoming gods. Men worshiping themselves. Even Michael the archangel told John not to worship him but worship God alone. It is blasphemy to compare yourself to God. Jesus Christ IS GOD! Always WAS God and you can say all this is funny but at the Judgment you won't be laughing. Satan was kicked out of heaven for having the very same desire you do. That of wanting to be god.

No, Sir, you will never be anything like Christ. God said we will be like the angels. That's way below God.

You will never understand that God is Creator and you are creature. God is infinite and you are finite. God is perfect and sinless, you are not. YOU WILL NEVER BECOME A GOD. PERIOD! End of discussion.

I see that to cover up your HUGE faulty logic you have decided to simply throw out a bunch of other attacks in hopes others will not see it.

I'm sorry you don't believe we will be anything like Christ.

[James Banta]

[Sir;73453]Seems some have been banned. Has it seemed right to break the rules to them? I can't say. I don't suppose it is any different than any of the non-LDS here that have been banned at one time or another. Maybe the critics of Mormonism like yourself do more of the running to the mods for redress of grievences than do the LDS. And they also pe***ion the mods to let their fellow LDS-critics come back from being banned if they can promise to be obedient to the rules. (That was you.) So I don't know if the LDS being banned means any more or less than the non-LDS being banned.

There have been times (not many) that I have asked if some LDS posters can come back.. I won't do that again because they proved they can't follow the rules.. Understand not all are insistent of having their own set of rules.. I think you do a good *** of staying within the rules.. I haven't made a report in months.. I think I am about the same as anyone who cares about this forum and doesn't want it to become a free for all of name calling ans lies..

Nice attack on the members of Mormonism. Who knows, maybe that is why most LDS don't give this place much attention. They see the self-righteous critics of the church pontificate and claim that they are simply here to be a witness against Mormonism, not the mormon people. But then they go off and make broad disparaging statements against the actual people, and then expect to win them over to their 'jesus'. The hypocrisy probably just makes most LDS laugh and they realize that you obviously have nothing better to offer them based on the fruits of your beliefs.

I was attacking mormons.. I was attacking their church.. I know you don't see a difference but one is an attack on non, even anti Biblical doctrines and the other would be on people.. Holding the unique doctrines of mormonism is blinding people to truth, the truth of Jesus, His Love, and mission of the redemption of mankind from sin. Instead mormonism has replaced His full forgiveness though grace with a cheep subs***ute. A grace that is earned though obedience to laws and ordinances.. How is that grace? You do know what grace is don't you? The unmerited favor of one Person for another.. Because of the sin within us we are incapable of living for God.. We must be recreated, given a whole new nature to accomplish that commandment.. And then as long as we walk in these bodies of death sin continues to rule over our flesh. We are righteous only in and through Jesus.. That that you call self righteousness? WE are the one trying to establish our righteousness as the standard for life.. That is done in mormonism and it's people fail again and again to measure up.. Only those that have convinced them selves that they are "worthy" can survive in such a system.. And that "worthiness" is self righteousness.. This is taught by the LDS church as the one true way to God.. Christians in pointing out the failures of that system then are called self righteous by those who are actually attempting to build personal righteousness that would be acceptable to a Holy God.. That is self righteousness at it worst.. As for me I am a sinner (A TERRIBLE SINNER) saved by the grace of God though my faith in Jesus.. I pray that you find this ***urance. That your place with God in His kingdom becomes sure.. IHS jim

[Sir]

Originally Posted by James Banta

There have been times (not many) that I have asked if some LDS posters can come back.. I won't do that again because they proved they can't follow the rules.. Understand not all are insistent of having their own set of rules..

That is probably for a moderator to decide. I don't think anybody follows board rules 100%, 100% of the time. No big deal, right?

I think I am about the same as anyone who cares about this forum and doesn't want it to become a free for all of name calling ans lies.

I guess we shall see.

I was attacking mormons.. I was attacking their church.. I know you don't see a difference...

You're trying hard to rationalize your comment that, "Maybe someone new would make sense, but then again if they are true followers of mormonism they won't..."

Saying "someone" and "they" refers to people. And when you say that those people won't make sense if they are true followers of Mormonism you are indicting the people just as much as anything.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

You're trying hard to rationalize your comment that, "Maybe someone new would make sense, but then again if they are true followers of mormonism they won't..."

Saying "someone" and "they" refers to people. And when you say that those people won't make sense if they are true followers of Mormonism you are indicting the people just as much as anything.

Yes They most likely wouldn't... Why? because they are an evil and wicked people? No, because they have been taught and believed the lies first told by Joseph Smith and taught again and again down though the years by his followers.. It's the doctrine that warps their thoughts not because that are any worse or any better a people.. I stand by that as an attack on the religion not the members of it..

I have never claimed to be better than you. I never claimed that I was less of a valiant child of God because I deserted the LDS religion.. I never claimed that you were more valiant because you didn't.. If anything I have said I am not as good a person as most LDS people.. I would say you are most likely a better person than me.. I am a terrible sinner.. All confesses to God, all covered by the Blood of Jesus.. I am not better or even as good as you but I am forgiven and have become His child by His grace through Faith in Jesus.. As I see it if it wasn't for Jesus I wouldn't be worth the dirt under your shoes.. IHS jim

[Novato]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

Actually, you have started 12 threads on here. You abandon some threads early on. Leaving questions unanswered. Typical lds tactic.

Erik:

My most humble apologies, I had forgotten these threads, most of which are over 12 months old. No excuse just an apology.

Novato

[ErikErik]

Originally Posted by Sir

I see that to cover up your HUGE faulty logic you have decided to simply throw out a bunch of other attacks in hopes others will not see it.

I'm sorry you don't believe we will be anything like Christ.

We can have Christ-like attributes such as humility, meekness, etc., but we can't be God. Jesus is God. I'm sorry you can't see that. Jesus Christ, God the Son, along with God the Father and God the Spirit, created all things. They will reign in the New Jerusalem. We will be like the angels of God and we will be worshiping and praising God for ever. That is what God's word says.

It seems that mormons want to take credit for things that belong to God. God does not need our help with producing "spirit babies." Nor does God, who is not a human being, need to engage in sex. He is a spirit and must be worshiped in spirit. God needs only to speak the words and it shall be done. He said: "Let there be light, and there was light." He made Adam from the dust of the ground. God does not need to procreate the way we humans do. He is the Creator and you and I are his creature, or creation. God said in His word that he never changes. This means he was always God, and not a man. Let His Word speak to you.

Let me ask you something. Do you believe you will ever be able to create a universe from your own hands? Fill it with land, sky, water, etc etc? Control everything that happens on that universe? Do you think one day you can even create humans? How about a man out of the dust of the ground and then take his rib and make a woman?
Do you believe you will one day be omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscience?

God the Son can do all these things. So can you be exactly like Him?

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by James Banta

As of late the mormons of the forum seem to be unable or unwilling to give an answer to EVERYONE who asks them for the hope within them..

1 Peter 3:15-16
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

It seems that they aren't ready to give answers while we the Christians of Walter Martin are still here ready to obey this command of God the Holy Spirit given to us through the Apostle Peter.. Jesus is our hope.. A hope, a faith we can't generate in ourselves but is THE gift of God to us. Shown, by testified though and proven to our hearts that Jesus is God.. A witness I proudly stand in.. Not because some man told me but God in His word taught my heart and made me His.. This is proof that they are trusting in themselves and the message of a man.. This is proof that we are trusting in the message of the LORD GOD.. IHS jim

Were have we failed? As far as answering "everyone" some us have ***s and lives and children, as so forth.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

Were have we failed? As far as answering "everyone" some us have ***s and lives and children, as so forth.

There are those of your church that say it is not worth their time in discussing the issues of the forum. If that is the way they feel they should leave.. I was responding to them not the time any one of you spends online.. I personally love to tell the story of Jesus and His love (Remember that one?). I don't mind repeating it, I don't mind lifting Him up even if the ones I lift Him before have already rejected Him and His gift of eternal life.. You, more than most of the mormons here, know what I am saying even if you have put your first love aside and gone after a God who is only a created being.. You should understand if not agree with what I am saying here.. Strange that you were in a church that taught the same message I give here now.. I don't even know what church it was or what if any denomination it was affiliated with. Yet the message is the same isn't? Strange? NOT

IHS jim

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by James Banta

There are those of your church that say it is not worth their time in discussing the issues of the forum. If that is the way they feel they should leave.. I was responding to them not the time any one of you spends online.. I personally love to tell the story of Jesus and His love (Remember that one?). I don't mind repeating it, I don't mind lifting Him up even if the ones I lift Him before have already rejected Him and His gift of eternal life.. You, more than most of the mormons here, know what I am saying even if you have put your first love aside and gone after a God who is only a created being.. You should understand if not agree with what I am saying here.. Strange that you were in a church that taught the same message I give here now.. I don't even know what church it was or what if any denomination it was affiliated with. Yet the message is the same isn't? Strange? NOT

IHS jim

All I did was graduate, from Kindergarten.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

All I did was graduate, from Kindergarten.

Great then you have three more years of edjumacation than I have IHS jim

[bert10]

On Salvation according to how it was taught in the early Churches is that all MEN SHALL RESURRECT Whether they be just or unjust. They shall go from mortality to immortality. They will be in the Spirit world with their resurrected bodies. After the resurrection this earth is no more...but made a new world. And the world and men shall be given victory over death diseases and afflictions forever.

This was the doctrine being taught to all men. And this is the free gift of God to all men.

What happens on judgment day which by the way...is not called faith day or grace day depends on our works. For in our works GOD will find the measure of our faith, love, forgiveness, anger, hate etc. That are contained in them.

Our works are written in the books of heaven...all of them whether they be our thoughts or words or actions. On judgment day the justice of GOD is not frustrated by faith nor by grace or any other abominable doctrines being taught today.

The only hope men have in order to have works acceptable to GOD is to learn to be led by the Spirit of GOD within them and do works by the Spirit for it is written...that if one is led by the Spirit one is not under the law.

Now you guys must understand this....the only thing that is not part of the heavens of GOD is the outer Darkness. This is world is in the heavens of GOD and even Hell for men are in it.

There is nothing that exist that is not in the heavens of GOD. We are at the lowest point of them. For all things spiritual are above us. And we cannot access anything of the Spiritual until we become the new creature. Even a Spiritual man.

Before one can teach their neighbors they ought to first learn to be taught of GOD so that they are not responsible of teachings falsehoods and abomination.


bert10

Originally Posted by TheSword99

This is what has been going on. The lds on here still will not discuss Mormonism. Still will not give direct, straight forward answers. Instead, the habit has been to pick on the words in our posts and then pick on us. This is really getting childish and tedious.

Christ commanded we carry out the Great Commission. He didn't ask or say it was optional, but that all true believers in Him must take His Gospel to our neighborhood and to the world.. I believe the reason the lds do not carry out this command is because you believe in universal salavtion. That all men will be in some heaven in the hereafter. But God's word does not teach this. Hell is real and it is for those who believe in a false gospel or no gospel. Those who reject the one true Christ who is God, always was and always will be. The lds does not understand the urgency of getting people saved in these last days. There will be no 2nd chances after we die. God's word says Its appointed once for man to die, then what? JUDGMENT!

Luke 16 tells us our fate is sealed at death. That is why James and I are on here everyday almost. Because the Gospel of Jesus Christ (and there is only ONE Gospel), must be preached. Satan has lulled millions into a kind of complacency, a false sense of security that we all are going to some level of heaven. But satan is a liar and the father of lies. Hell is a real place and its not just for satan and the son of perdition. Its for those who preach a different Christ, as well as those who reject Him. Jesus said unless you are spiritually born again, you will die in your sins. The lds has yet to deal with his sins. By grace we are saved and not of works. The lds is still working and striving and trying to be perfect in obedience to many laws, commandments and ordinances, but you are spinning your wheels as perfect obedience can't be done. Therefore, the lds knows nothing about the forgiveness of Christ.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by bert10

On Salvation according to how it was taught in the early Churches is that all MEN SHALL RESURRECT Whether they be just or unjust. They shall go from mortality to immortality. They will be in the Spirit world with their resurrected bodies. After the resurrection this earth is no more...but made a new world. And the world and men shall be given victory over death diseases and afflictions forever.


bert10

Yes all men will resurrect, whether just or unjust, but not all men will spend eternity with God. Jesus Christ at the Judgment will cast some out and they will follow satan into hell. The lds always omits what the Bible says about hell.. No its not just for satan and the son of perdition, but for all men who reject Christ, preach a "different" christ, or teach a different gospel. In Matthew 7 we read about people whom Christ cast out. He said He never knew these people who had prophesied, cast our demons and did many wonderful things in His name. Why would Christ cast out such people from heaven? Because they had depended on their "good works" to save them or to merit points in the afterlife. They did not depend on Christ alone for their eternal salvation.

Are you depending on Christ or on your own efforts to strive to always be obedient so that you can obtain some kind of godhood? Why do you even need Jesus if you think you can become a god of another planet for all eternity through your own efforts?

Hell is not here and now for some men. Its future. Nor is universal salvation taught in the Bible. Read Luke 16 again. Our fates ares sealed at death. The gulf is fixed. One will either be with God or separated from God forever. Jesus spoke more about hell than heaven.

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by ErikErik:

You will never understand the true deity of Jesus Christ


That is a bold prophecy to be making, don't you think?

[ErikErik]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

Originally Posted by ErikErik:

You will never understand the true deity of Jesus Christ


That is a bold prophecy to be making, don't you think?

Nope, not all. As long as you believe Christ was once a man like you and had to learn obedience to become God, then nope, you will never understand his true deity.

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

Nope, not all. As long as you believe Christ was once a man like you and had to learn obedience to become God, then nope, you will never understand his true deity.

--Well, at least I got you to add some qualifiers to your bald ***ertion. So you are making progress. But did Sir ever claim to believe that Jesus HAD to LEARN obedience in order to become deity? If he never said that, then your accusation is still falling flat on its face, being baseless.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

--Well, at least I got you to add some qualifiers to your bald ***ertion.

Why do you believe that Jesus has not always been God?

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Why do you believe that Jesus has not always been God?

---Did I ever say that I DO believe that? Shouldn't you first establish that I DO, and THEN you can ask WHY I do? At least that is the rational way to go about it. So you may not want to.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---Did I ever say that I DO believe that? Shouldn't you first establish that I DO, and THEN you can ask WHY I do?

Because that is what Mormonism teaches Jeff.

But you are right you views may differ from that of your church.

[nrajeff]

Not sure what church you belonged to, but the one I have been a member of for decades teaches that Jesus has been a deity since before the Creation mentioned in Genesis and John occurred. Of course, since the LDS believe what the Bible teaches, they also believe that Jesus is literally a CHILD of the Only True God of mankind. (If you can find a verse where it says Jesus is only metaphorically God's Son or is merely an adopted child of God, "lay it on us.")

[ErikErik]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

Not sure what church you belonged to, but the one I have been a member of for decades teaches that Jesus has been a deity since before the Creation mentioned in Genesis and John occurred. Of course, since the LDS believe what the Bible teaches, they also believe that Jesus is literally a CHILD of the Only True God of mankind. (If you can find a verse where it says Jesus is only metaphorically God's Son or is merely an adopted child of God, "lay it on us.")

Either Christ was always God , or he was once a man like you, a mere mortal, who through obedience, became exalted and is now a god. So which is it?? You say Christ was a deity before Creation. What kind of deity? God or a god among zillions? Do you believe in monotheism or polytheism?

If you are going to say that Christ is the LITERAL son of God the Father, then you are saying that God the Father had intercourse with a goddess. So then your version of heavenly Father is one who was a man and is not a Spirit. Your god has reproductive organs. He must sleep with goddesses in order to procreate. You want us to believe that God cannot create humans without having sex? That He needs a female??

God's Word says He IS a Spirit. What the lds church believes in are man-gods... This sounds like Greek Mythology.

[ErikErik]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

Not sure what church you belonged to, but the one I have been a member of for decades teaches that Jesus has been a deity since before the Creation mentioned in Genesis and John occurred. Of course, since the LDS believe what the Bible teaches, they also believe that Jesus is literally a CHILD of the Only True God of mankind. (If you can find a verse where it says Jesus is only metaphorically God's Son or is merely an adopted child of God, "lay it on us.")

The Holy Scriptures tells us that Christ is God, always was God, was with God the Father from the beginning. He is Creator, and you and I are His creature or creation. That means you and I are very different from God the Son, God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit. Different in nature, substance and being. We can never be like them..ever!

So if Jehovah/ Christ was always God and always was with God the Father, then how is it that you believe God the Father sired Jehovah God (or Christ)???

You claim that Jesus was always deity. Your church says He is Jehovah of the OT, but then in the next breath you say God the Father sired him through sex with some goddess heavenly being.. This is what LITERAL means.

Which is it? Was Christ always God, or a man who progressed to godhood?

The lds fails to grasp that God the Father and God the Son are uncreated. They always were. There never was a time when they were not.

God said He knows of no other gods. None before Him and none shall come after. He alone is God.

Do you remember the question Sword asked you that you couldn't answer? If God has a father, would He not know it? Would He not know His father? God says HE KNOWS OF NO OTHER GODS!!! PERIOD!

[Sir]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

If you are going to say that Christ is the LITERAL son of God the Father, then you are saying that God the Father had intercourse with a goddess.

This is false. I have 2 beautiful daughters who are literally mine, but they were not conceived through intercourse. If I can do this, I'm sure God can do much greater.

So then your version of heavenly Father is one who was a man and is not a Spirit. Your god has reproductive organs.

Jesus is God. Jesus resurrected with a perfect body. Do you thing Jesus resurrected w/o the reprodictive organs attached? If so, how do you know? If not, your statement is flawed.

He must sleep with goddesses in order to procreate. You want us to believe that God cannot create humans without having sex? That He needs a female??

Really? Just above you implied the only option for Jesus being the LITERAL son of God was that the father had intercourse. But then you said Jeff "wants you to believe that God cannot create humans without having sex". Which is it? You are arguing both sides, which means your argument is flawed.

God's Word says He IS a Spirit. What the lds church believes in are man-gods... This sounds like Greek Mythology.

Like the Greek god Jesus Christ, the god that is a spirit and a man?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

Not sure what church you belonged to, but the one I have been a member of for decades teaches that Jesus has been a deity since before the Creation mentioned in Genesis and John occurred.

Same church that you belong to Jeff.

Tell us, when did Jesus become God?

[James Banta]

[Sir;73636]This is false. I have 2 beautiful daughters who are literally mine, but they were not conceived through intercourse. If I can do this, I'm sure God can do much greater.

Really is this how apostles of your church understood the way in which Jesus was conceived? Do they not knew all about these other "Nature ways" by which a child could be convinced? And yet this is a teaching of a Prophet seer and revelator of your church:

These name ***les all signify that our Lord is the only Son of the Father in the flesh. Each of the words is to be understood literally. Only means only, Begotten means begotten; and Son means son. Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers. (Mormon Doctrine, 1979, pp. 546-47)

Seems your natural ideas clash with those of a prophet of your god..

Jesus is God. Jesus resurrected with a perfect body. Do you thing Jesus resurrected w/o the reprodictive organs attached? If so, how do you know? If not, your statement is flawed.

I don't have any idea how the resurrection body of Jesus was built.. Neither do you! It is conceivable that unnecessary appendages would not be included remember Paul told us that body which is laid down in death is not the same body as in raised up. The natural is corrupt and the resurrection body is incorruption (1 Cor 15:37-42).. We don't know what we shall be but when that came come we know that we will be like Him (1John 3:2)..

IHS jim

[ErikErik]

Originally Posted by Sir

This is false. I have 2 beautiful daughters who are literally mine, but they were not conceived through intercourse. If I can do this, I'm sure God can do much greater.



Jesus is God. Jesus resurrected with a perfect body. Do you thing Jesus resurrected w/o the reprodictive organs attached? If so, how do you know? If not, your statement is flawed.



Really? Just above you implied the only option for Jesus being the LITERAL son of God was that the father had intercourse. But then you said Jeff "wants you to believe that God cannot create humans without having sex". Which is it? You are arguing both sides, which means your argument is flawed.




Like the Greek god Jesus Christ, the god that is a spirit and a man?

Your church teaches/has taught that God is a polygamous, has many goddess wives and is busy producing spirit babies. That God has a body like ours. Now you want to turn around and claim that god has no reproductive organs. So either He has a body like yours or he doesn't. Which is it??

However, none of the above has any scriptural support from the word of God...Sorry

Guess you have forgotten what your past leaders said and taught. That Christ was begotten by an immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers. Young taught: 'The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers.'

This not only denies the virgin birth, but also denies the true deity of Jesus Christ, who said He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending.

If God has a body like yours, then why do you now want to say His body is different and has different parts??? The Holy Scriptures says God is a Spirit. Mormons say no He is not! Guess you call God a liar.