What is Spirit?

[Knox]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

It doesn't sound like you understand what Jesus Christ meant when he told us we MUST be born-again or we cannot see the kingdom of God. Nor do you understand that Jesus Christ alone is the way to salvation.

I just find your statement interesting:

We don't have to know what God is to have eternal life.

You wouldn't deny Mormons eternal life just because they don't know what God is. That is very noble of you. Thanks for being so ecumenical.

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by Libby

Not sure what you mean. The Bible says, God is love. You are right that there is not a very clear definition of "spirit", in the Bible. Not quite understanding why you believe this is critical to salvation.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

If this verse is true, and the Bible provides no definition of what spirit is, then how can you know God when the Bible doesn't tell you what spirit is and thus what God, who is spirit as you believe, is?

Marvin

[bert10]

With the conditions that you have imposed...I do not think you will be able to learn anything more about the Spiritual God than the little bit God gave the wicked by way of the Bible.

The Hidden manna was reserved only for them that were perfect in love. And it was not written down.

Paul taught that only the Spiritual can understand the things that Are Spiritual and this includes GOD.

And so with the conditions...which you have imposed on yourself you have stopped all Spiritual progression in that area.

bert10

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

The claim is made that God the Father is spirit, and the words of Christ to the Samaritan woman at the well are used to back this up.

I understand the verse but I don't understand what spirit is. Can anyone provide any Biblical verses to show what Spirit is? And don't tell me what Christ told the apostles after his resurrection. I don't need to know what a spirit is not. I want to know what a spirit is.

Anyone?

Marvin

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

If this verse is true, and the Bible provides no definition of what spirit is, then how can you know God when the Bible doesn't tell you what spirit is and thus what God, who is spirit as you believe, is?

Marvin

Yes, I caught that the first time around. What I was asking is...taking that verse into consideration, what is it about God that we really need to know? The Bible says God is spirit, yes, but the the Bible also says that God is love, mercy, comp***ion, joy, justice, perfection and Holy. What, of all of these attributes, do we most need to understand about God? Personally, I don't think having an exact definition of spirit is all that important. That's not really "who" God is. It is more of a "what", not a "who". It's kind of like saying you're going to get to know someone by understanding what their physical body is made of and how it works. Is that really how we would get to know a person? We will find out who God is by knowing and understanding his character...

[Libby]

The Hidden manna was reserved only for them that were perfect in love. And it was not written down.

Paul taught that only the Spiritual can understand the things that Are Spiritual and this includes GOD.

So, you are saying this is not something we can even learn in a book.

Have to say, I kind of agree with you, here, Bert. I do think we have to establish a personal relationship with God to really and truly know him.

[MacG]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

The claim is made that God the Father is spirit, and the words of Christ to the Samaritan woman at the well are used to back this up.

I understand the verse but I don't understand what spirit is. Can anyone provide any Biblical verses to show what Spirit is? And don't tell me what Christ told the apostles after his resurrection. I don't need to know what a spirit is not. I want to know what a spirit is.

Anyone?

Marvin

Marvin,

Are you asking if we can know what the substance of Spirit is and is that found in the Bible?

MacG

[ErikErik]

God is not obligated to reveal everything about Himself or about anything else. He doesn't owe us anything. It seems that the lds wants answers to everything. Joe Smith did and invented that God has a body like ours which the Scriptures nowhere supports. Its the need to humanize God in order to understand Him better. But His ways and thoughts are so much higher than ours that we as finite humans cannot grasp His greatness. I think this is why lds leaders over the years wrote volumes based on their opinions to try and explain away things which have no basis in the Bible. Thus they cannot ever be declared doctrine.

The Bible says we are to worship God in spirit and truth. Faith is the substance of things not seen. It requires FAITH to believe in and worship God. Not knowing exactly what God's essence and being is has nothing to do with our salvation. Believing in Christ and His finished work on the Cross does.

[TheSword99]

The Bible says we are to worship God in spirit and truth.True worship is in spirit, from the heart.

It is in Truth, which means it is according to the Word of God, which is TRUTH (John. 17:17). Jesus said thy word is Truth. Jesus is also the Way, the Life and the Truth.

The nature of God is spirit. All spirits are invisible to the human eye. We are unable to see the human spirit when it leaves the body to return to God who gave it (Ecc. 12:7).

Col. 1:15 says: He is the image of the invisible God.

1 Tim. 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

Luke 24:39 “See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

You cannot see the hands or feet of a spirit. Christ told them to touch him. You can not feel a spirit because a spirit is not made of matter.

God is not dependent upon matter. Nor is the human spirit. The human spirit has consciousness apart from the body.

The rich man in Luke 16 could remember and feel in Hades. His body was in the grave, but his inner man, the spirit, was conscious and capable of all the activities of conscience life. Since man is not dependent upon matter for his existence, then how can God, the “Father of Spirits” be dependent upon matter for his existence?

Since God is a spirit, and He is both invisible and immaterial, He requires worship of a similar nature. Spiritual worship, not material worship.

Acts 17:24-25 “The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things;

[dfoJC]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

Describing what a spirit does or can do, does not tell us what it is. I can tell you that I am a computer programmer, but then so are many people. What does that tell you about what I am? Nothing. It describes actions that I perform, but that is not what I am.

I disagree with your above statement. What you do certainly tells me a little bit about who you are. However, I will say that what you do does not define who you are. Since you are a computer programmer that tells me you have intelligence and that you have an ability gained through education of some kind, which tells me you are educated. You are LDS. This tells me that you have chose to believe in Mormonism-in other words you are LDS, it has nothing do to with what you do-it is who you are. (I am not saying that there is no action required here I simply point out the fact that you are LDS.)

Is I have asked, I am looking for a Biblical definition of what a spirit is. Describing what a spirit does, is not a definition of what a spirit is.


Marvin

Good morning Marvin. This verse, John 6:63 does not only state what the Spirit does, it also says what the Spirit is. Jesus says, "the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life."

Do you see this? His words are spirit and life. Words and life are not what he does-it is who he is.

Take care, have a very blessed Christmas,

dfoJC

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by dfoJC

Good morning Marvin. This verse, John 6:63 does not only state what the Spirit does, it also says what the Spirit is. Jesus says, "the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life."

Do you see this? His words are spirit and life. Words and life are not what he does-it is who he is.

Take care, have a very blessed Christmas,

dfoJC

From what the scripture says, this use of the word spirit is not the same as the spirit we are looking to define by Biblical reference.

And Christ is not his words but what he did. He lived a perfect life, he suffered the Atonement and he was resurrected, amoung other things. Words can be used to give us an idea of what he did, but who he was is defined by what he did.

Marvin

[dfoJC]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

From what the scripture says, this use of the word spirit is not the same as the spirit we are looking to define by Biblical reference.

And Christ is not his words but what he did. He lived a perfect life, he suffered the Atonement and he was resurrected, amoung other things. Words can be used to give us an idea of what he did, but who he was is defined by what he did.

Marvin

Then perhaps you need to redefine "spirit" for us? How can you say, since you are seeking the answer to "what is spirit" that the use of the word spirit is not the same as the spirit we are looking to define by Biblical standards? You are simply not making much sense here.

Christ is not His words, there is a certain amount of truth to that, however the Bible also says that He is the Word? He is not defined "solely" by what He did!

In the end according to what you have written here we have failed to give you what you ask-for that I am saddened. So I am going to say good bye for now. Just one last comment, there are over 505 references in the whole bible that are mentioned-I would suggest that you begin to seek those out and get some revelation, for it seems you are serious in this quest.

dfoJC

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by dfoJC

Then perhaps you need to redefine "spirit" for us? How can you say, since you are seeking the answer to "what is spirit" that the use of the word spirit is not the same as the spirit we are looking to define by Biblical standards? You are simply not making much sense here.

Statement 'God is spirit' is concrete but the spirit used in your reference is metaphorical. The use and meaning are different and don't help us understand what spirit is concretely.

Originally Posted by dfoJC

Christ is not His words, there is a certain amount of truth to that, however the Bible also says that He is the Word? He is not defined "solely" by what He did!

But he is defined by what he did. There were many teachers in the world, but only one lived what he taught and lived it perfectly. Only one sacrificed himself for others, only one was resurrected. Yes, Christ taught but so did many other. But only Christ can be defined by the things he did more than by the things he said.

Originally Posted by dfoJC

In the end according to what you have written here we have failed to give you what you ask-for that I am saddened. So I am going to say good bye for now. Just one last comment, there are over 505 references in the whole bible that are mentioned-I would suggest that you begin to seek those out and get some revelation, for it seems you are serious in this quest.

dfoJC

I am serious. And I am looking for something that I have obviously overlooked.

For centuries people have believed that God is spirit but from what this forum reveals, no one has a Biblical definition of what spirit is. If Christ was speaking true when he said, This is life eternal to know thee the only true God and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent, then we are lacking something that might endanger our salvation. If we have no definition of spirit we cannot know who God the Father is and if we can't know God do we have any hope of salvation?

Marvin

[bert10]

That is right, what is Spiritual can only be discerned and understood by those who are Spiritual. Paul teaches this best.

In the Movie Matrix, Neo is trying to understand what is the Matrix and then Morpheus tells him that it cannot be understood until one experiences it.
and then Morpheus sets up a training agenda and let Neo begin to Experience the Matrix.

bert10

Originally Posted by Libby

So, you are saying this is not something we can even learn in a book.

Have to say, I kind of agree with you, here, Bert. I do think we have to establish a personal relationship with God to really and truly know him.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by bert10

That is right, what is Spiritual can only be discerned and understood by those who are Spiritual. Paul teaches this best.

In the Movie Matrix, Neo is trying to understand what is the Matrix and then Morpheus tells him that it cannot be understood until one experiences it.
and then Morpheus sets up a training agenda and let Neo begin to Experience the Matrix.

bert10

And no one can be spiritual if they worship Baal.. Since mormonism denies that God is Spirit (John 4:24) and a Spirit hasn't flesh and blood as Jesus taught (Luke 24:39). No one can say they are spiritual and deny the word of God.. In this whole thread that is all that is being taught by the LDS.. That God is NOT Spirit since they insist that He is a being of flesh and bone..

The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also, but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us (D. & C. 130:22).

That is the opposite of what Jesus said God is as he told us that God is Spirit, and that a Spirit doesn't have flesh and bone.. This is further proof that Smith invented a God to suite him evolving doctrines.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

[Russianwolfe;74671]If Christ is in the image of the invisible God, then the invisible God must have an image that is not invisible, else there would be no image for Christ to be in. So by the very verse you quote, it implies that God the Father is not invisible just not seen by us at this time. Probably because God the Father chooses to not be seen.

I can't believe you look right at the scripture after I have shown it to you and turn and deny it.. Only a God hater acts like that.. So why does Jesus have to be in the physical image of the Father? As a boy is growing up and acts in a certain way, he is said to be a chip off the old block.. Does that mean that he actually is his father? Not at all just that he is acting like his father.. Jesus therefore in in the Spiritual image of the Father. No one can be in the physical image of an invisible God.. Still the Bible teaches that He is the image of the invisible God (Col 1:15).. How can you argue with the teaching of the Scripture and then turn and say that mormonism agrees with the Bible and the Christian world is not? It's nonsense to teach such blatantly false statements as being truth..

But Christ didn't contradict that belief. In fact, he told them there was a difference between him and a spirit, confiming that what they believed about spirit was true but there was a difference with Christ. So the apostles were not wrong. They were correct.

Yes He taught that His resurrection Body is physically different than a spirit.. He never said that He was different in His nature than the Father.. In fact He always confirmed that He is one with the Father (John 10:30)..

You have not established that God is invisible because he is spirit. You have only established that is is invisible and that he is spirit. Since Christ did not tell the apostles that spirits were invisible, you have one count against that belief. Do you have any other verse that talks about spirits? If not, we have to conclude that spirits are not invisible.

I have established NOTHING!! God though His word has established that The Father is Spirit.. That a spirit is not flesh and bone.. That God is invisible..
1. A spirit is not flesh and Bone (Luke 24:39)
2. God is Spirit (John 4:24)
3. God is invisible (1 Tim 1:17)
Can't you see the clear revelation here.. God is Spirit, God is invisible, spirits are invisible.. It's clear..

Sorry, but you have not evidence to make this conclusion.
And he said nothing about spirits being invisible either, which contradicts your attempt to equal spirits with being invisible.

I have just given you scriptural reference that supports what I have been telling you.. All you have said is "IS NOT".. Is there anyone that has read this exchange that can't see that? Only if they are blind. Your attempt to dismiss me is really a denial of the Bible.. These aren't a doctrine that I made up just to argue with you, these doctrines come directly from the Bible.. IHS jim

[MacG]

Originally Posted by MacG

Marvin,

Are you asking if we can know what the substance of Spirit is and is that found in the Bible?

MacG

So Marvin, is that the question?

MacG

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I can't believe you look right at the scripture after I have shown it to you and turn and deny it.. Only a God hater acts like that..

Still using the same old tricks. A personal attack is not a good debating technique. It is called ad hominem and is considered a logical fallacy. You are showing your insecurities when you resort to tactics like this. Drop the personal attacks. You look weak and insecure when you use this kind of tactic.

I don't deny any scriptures but I do have a different understanding than you do. That doesn't make me a God-hater.

Originally Posted by James Banta

So why does Jesus have to be in the physical image of the Father?

Because the Greek word used for image implies a physical image not a spiritual one. Just as the Hebrew word in the Genesis creation story implies physical just as the birth of Seth also does. It is a physical image not a spiritual one.

Originally Posted by James Banta

As a boy is growing up and acts in a certain way, he is said to be a chip off the old block.. Does that mean that he actually is his father?

But the Greek word doesn't imply actions; it implies physical image.

Originally Posted by James Banta

Not at all just that he is acting like his father.. Jesus therefore in in the Spiritual image of the Father.

The Greek does not support you in this. Your argument is working against you. First you are trying to say that Christ is in the Spiritual image of his father. (Which by the way implies two gods). Then you try to say that Christ is in the character image of his father. But you haven't established that the two are the same. If spirit is invisible, how can you say Christ is in the spiritual image when that can't be seen? These are questions that you refuse to consider. As long as they remain unanswered you got real problems with your arguments.

Originally Posted by James Banta

No one can be in the physical image of an invisible God..

You say this inspite of what the scriptures say. You must be a God-hater to deny the scriptures like this.

Originally Posted by James Banta

Still the Bible teaches that He is the image of the invisible God (Col 1:15)..

Go back to the Greek. The word for image implies a physical image. You haven't provided a link between spiritual and invisible and I have provided you with a scripture that implies that spirits are not invisible. A point you have not answered. And you use that same scripture to show that spirits do not have flesh and bones.

Originally Posted by James Banta

How can you argue with the teaching of the Scripture and then turn and say that mormonism agrees with the Bible and the Christian world is not? It's nonsense to teach such blatantly false statements as being truth..

I am agruing with your interpretation of the scriptures not with the scriptures. Unless you are God, your understanding of the scriptures could be incorrect and definitely is faulty.

Originally Posted by James Banta

Yes He taught that His resurrection Body is physically different than a spirit.. He never said that He was different in His nature than the Father.. In fact He always confirmed that He is one with the Father (John 10:30)..

I have established NOTHING!! God though His word has established that The Father is Spirit.. That a spirit is not flesh and bone.. That God is invisible..
1. A spirit is not flesh and Bone (Luke 24:39)

I agree.

Originally Posted by James Banta

2. God is Spirit (John 4:24)

I agree but I do not limit God to being just a spirit. After all, I believe the Holy Ghost is spirit and God, just the way Christ before he was born was also spirit and God.

Originally Posted by James Banta

3. God is invisible (1 Tim 1:17)

Which I have pointed out was by choice not nature.

Originally Posted by James Banta

Can't you see the clear revelation here.. God is Spirit, God is invisible, spirits are invisible.. It's clear..

The only thing that is clear is that you are under the mistaken idea that your understanding makes you equal with God. It is your understanding and it is not equal with the Bible nor does it make you equal with God. It is what you believe but that doesn't make your belief perfect.

And yet, you have not answered the scripture that I have provided where Christ does not say that a spirit is invisible. Thus, you have not established that a spirit is invisible.

You also have not answered the point I have made that if Christ is God, then God has a body of flesh and bones as Christ told the apostles. A scripture that you have used but refuse to consider as I have used it.

You also have not addressed my point that God is invisible by choice not by nature. And one scripture that I have not used is the Garden of Eden where nothing is said about God the Father being invisible.

No, you have not answered the points I have made and the questions I have asked, so you have not establisehed anything. Answer my points and maybe you will have established something. But for now, you have too many points that still need to be answered before you can claim to established anything.

Originally Posted by James Banta

I have just given you scriptural reference that supports what I have been telling you..

But you haven't considered the opposing points that I have brought up. Engage the whole argument not just the ones you feel comfortable with.

Originally Posted by James Banta

All you have said is "IS NOT"..

And all you have done is whine Nuh-uh. Great dialogue. Endless repeating your points without answering mine is not engaging the argument.

Originally Posted by James Banta

Is there anyone that has read this exchange that can't see that? Only if they are blind. Your attempt to dismiss me is really a denial of the Bible..

You are not God and your understanding of the Bible doesn't make you God. I disagree with your interpretation of the scriptures but that doesn't mean I deny the Bible. This is an old tactic that you should let go of. Don't equate your understanding of the Bible with your understanding being scripture. It just ain't so. It is just your understanding and that could be faulty. This tactic is a propaganda trick. Sorry, I don't buy it.

Originally Posted by James Banta

These aren't a doctrine that I made up just to argue with you, these doctrines come directly from the Bible.. IHS jim

These doctrines are only your understanding of what the Bible says. You still have not provided any clear scriptures that say what spirit is. You can only use several scriptures and logic to prove something. Something that I have called into question but you have not answered.

And one more point you have to answer: If man and God are so different as you believe, then you will have to establish that on this point they are the same. Otherwise what ever you say about God does not necessarily apply to man. IOW, if man is so different from God, then what you say about God does not apply to man.

Marvin

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by MacG

So Marvin, is that the question?

MacG

I stated my question in the OP. So far, no one has provided any scriptures that clearly answer the question.

If Christ spoke true, that to know God is life eternal, then the Bible is severely lacking in one very important point on our salvation.

Marvin

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I can't believe you look right at the scripture after I have shown it to you and turn and deny it.. . IHS jim

This is what the lds do and perhaps don't realize it. They have been indoctrinated in a different gospel. Their books/teachings testify to this. Thus these forums become a merry-go-round. What happens is that preconceived beliefs are read into the Bible p***ages.

The Bible teaches that the world cannot understand the things of God. God's word is spiritually discerned. One must be yielded to the Holy Spirit who teaches and guides. Unless one is born again, (or born from above), the Bible won't be understood to be the very voice of God. This is why Smith felt free to rewrite the Holy Scriptures and we see the continual distrust of it by most lds.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

From what the scripture says, this use of the word spirit is not the same as the spirit we are looking to define by Biblical reference.

And Christ is not his words but what he did. He lived a perfect life, he suffered the Atonement and he was resurrected, amoung other things. Words can be used to give us an idea of what he did, but who he was is defined by what he did.

Marvin

Christ is the Word, the logos. God is also Love. He doesn't just love, He IS love. This is how the Scriptures refers to them. Jesus is the very word of God.

After His Resurrection, Jesus told the disciples to touch Him. That he was not a spirit because a spirit does not have flesh and bone. God does not have a body of flesh and bone since he as referred to as a spirit.

[James Banta]

The answer required more space than is allowed so I have had to remove your parts of the post so that it will fit..

I haven't called any specific person a God hater.. All I said was those that deny the scripture are such.. You said you don't deny any of the scripture so you wouldn't be in that group would you.. However if your "Different Understanding" changes the intent of what God has given us in the p***age then that would be a denial of God word. As I read Ezek 37 and Isaiah 19 the context the twisting and pulling on the text to make it sound like it is what you want it to be.. To reject God's interpretation that in included right in the text of Ezek 37 is to deny the scripture.. Excuse me but have you see that the context is about the two nations of Israel and not about a book or books? Again I defy you to find a reference where clearly stick is refereed to as a book, any book.. Books are called, books, or scrolls. Never is the term stick used to describe book.. There was even an LDS fellow who tried to tell us that stick and book mean the same thing in Hebrew. When I challenged him to come up with even a single reference for that he stopped posting on the subject..

Now it's your turn CFR.. Image can be physical or in nature.. Jesus is the image of the nature of the Father..


My doctrine on this subject implies two persons.. It doesn't imply two natures.. It doesn't imply two separate Gods.. I bow to the scripture here that God is one Lord, the only God that has ever or will ever exist.. Mormonism tells us Jesus became a God will after the Father was already a God.. This is in clear contradiction to Isaiah 43:10.. After all the LDS church teaches that this p***age is only for this world and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are called God in the Bible yet mormonism insists that they became Gods after the Father was already God.. Another clear denial of the scripture..

Tell me how that is? What is the physical image of an invisible spirit? Just how am I denying the scripture by saying that no one can be in the physical image image of something that has no physical image? You aren't making sense here..

This is implied only to a person that has it in his mind from the start that God is a physical Being.. That is where you start from it's where you end. It can be seen just as it is in English. A father can be the image of his father in his life's work, in his mannerism, in how he deals with the world, and still reflect his mother in looks.. It is no different in the Greek.. See can make comments that are unsupported worthless arguments as well as you can.. However I will not leave it as a personal opinion.. The IVP New Testament Commentary teaches:

Paul's understanding of Christ's significance takes shape in a Greek philosophical environment that defined image in this way. In referring to Jesus as the image of the invisible God, Paul means that Jesus is the very substance of God's purposes and intentions for creation.

The Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary on the Bible teaches:

Christ in his human nature, is the visible discovery of the invisible God, and he that hath seen Him hath seen the Father.

Unless I take as my interpretation the literal meaning of the p***age. It would appear that mormonism has taken a different interpretation of the Bible other than what it actually says. Mormonism has placed their private interpretation above the interpretation given by God in the Ezek 37 p***age about the sticks.. No Biblical teacher outside mormonism would hold that the p***age is speaking about a book.. No LDS teacher has been trained in hermeneutics. After all going to school to study the Bible is evil right? WRONG!!

The nature of God is the nature of God.. While he can create a body of flesh to walk in among men that was only done once and Jesus was the one sent to inhabit that body. There is nothing in the Bible that says the Father was ever Born into a body of flesh. Jesus pronouncement that God is Spirit and that Jesus is the image of the invisible God shows that the Father is not a physical person. You can deny the scripture in this all you wish it doesn't change the fact.. The Holy Spirit through Paul explain this fact more than once for in Romans 1:20 Col 1:15 1 Tim 1:17 Heb 11:27 that doctrine that the Father in invisible is taught..

Because you said so? That is all you have given me your say so.. You haven't even supported your argument by LDS sources much less by actual scholarship..

That is something I have never claimed.. I have God's word therefor what is said by me in quoting that word is God speaking not me.. You can attack what I say but if you deny what God has said then your faith that He is there and in charge is very suspect.. You attack my understanding of the Bible and yet your understanding flies in the face of the context of the p***ages under discussion. Read Ezek 37 and see that God give the interpretation right there in the context.. It is a interpretation that is about the divided nations of Israel not about two books.. That isn't my understanding it's the facts given by God written right there in the p***age..

And still I have shown that God is Spirit and that He is invisible.. It is you changing the nature of what a Spirit is by saying that they are visible not me for saying that they are NOT..

The divine Person of Jesus has a Body.. That is clear from the p***age.. the context of the p***age Jesus spoke that God is Spirit was directed at the Person of the Father not at Himself.. So if we see the Trinitarian view of who and what God is we see that the Father is Spirit, that the Holy Spirit is the indwelling Spirit of God, and that Jesus is the savior that holds the marks of our salvation to satisfy God's justice.. You are the one trying to make God one person here, I am not.

I have addressed this issue.. You have not reference that say that God is invisible by choice.. Jesus makes it clear, at least to the whole of the Christian world that God is by nature Spirit.. God is Spirit.. That is a pronouncement of Nature.. For your insistence that the Garden proves that the Father is not invisible I hold up the Bible again to answer the attack against it.

John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Ok with that I say tat every time the Bible says that a man saw God, they saw Jesus, who like you agreed is God, yet is not invisible but is the image of the invisible God (Father)..

That is because you deny the scripture and my answers to your problems come ONLY from the scripture.. I haven't invented a church or a God to have that church worship.. I haven't written new revelations that dent the teachings of the Bible.. I haven't fooled men into trusting their hearts as the ultimate source for the establishment of truth. I tell the truth according to God word that the heart is deceitful ABOVE ALL THINGS, that included Satan.. It will lie to you depending on what the flesh desires.. Yours is in overdrive!

I have provided Biblical supporting doctrines for what I have said.. All you have said is your opinion.. You gave no authority other than "Because I say so" to anything you have said.. If you want to be believed use the Bible in context to support your claims.. I do..

That is what you do and the reason you are here.. "Oh you hurt my feeling telling he that My God is false because I insist that he is a created being.. And that there are three different Gods for this world.." So you stop the whining and show something Biblical that supports these false teachings.. Oh I know you will say that the word ELOHIM has plural meaning, right? But at the same time you will insist hat is it the proper name for one God, that being the Father. Are there more than one Fathers in Heaven with whom we have to do? INCONSISTENCY!!
Come up with an argument that make sense and but the unsupported or personal opinion and then we can see what the Bible says about them.. Not Me, I won't come up against your opinions.. God has already answered all your objections in His word..

I am glad that we agree about my place here.. I a a child of the Most High.. Unlike mormonism I don't claim or teach that mere men can ever become Gods.. God's word however is His voice and teaching for us.. While I don't claim to have everything down 100%, I do know that when He gives the meaning of His word right in the text He give a parable that is the way it is.. It can't be changes to fit into anyone pet doctrines.. I am not doing that mormonism is..

I have shown you several times what a spirit is and what a spirit isn't according to the scripture.. You denials of what the Bible teaches is your responsibility not because you weren't taught..

And one more point you have to answer: If man and God are so different as you believe, then you will have to establish that on this point they are the same. Otherwise what ever you say about God does not necessarily apply to man. IOW, if man is so different from God, then what you say about God does not apply to man.

I have shown you that God created the spirit of man within him.. That makes us a creation designed in His image.. God is unique and we will never fully know all about Him.. What we do Know He told us.. He is eternal and has existed as God forever.. He is a Trinue Being, since the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all called God yet the Bible is clear that God is One Lord.. Man like his God is trinue Body, Mind, and Spirit.. WE will never share the divine nature though we will be one with Him in His glory. I am not sure if this answers your last statement if not I am sorry but it was rather incoherent.. IHS jim

[MacG]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

I stated my question in the OP. So far, no one has provided any scriptures that clearly answer the question.

If Christ spoke true, that to know God is life eternal, then the Bible is severely lacking in one very important point on our salvation.

Marvin

Ah, so now we are at the root. The Bible is deficient, extra revelations are needed. Romans tells us the creation itself is enough of a witness to believe God exists. Jesus being the visible expression of the invisible God has made God known in a sufficient manner for salvation. What you seek is beyond the atonement and makes the sacrifice null and void, trampled blood in the mud. Do not be fooled by this feeling, this drive to have a definition of Spirit beyond all that has been given in the biblical Scripture. Test that spirit! Get all Berean on it.

We see through a dark gl*** but then we will see face to face. I can understand you desire for more information but be careful in that persuit.

Wanting to see God, to know God in all His glory reminds me of this song.

In Jesus Name,

Blessings,

MacG

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

Christ is the Word, the logos. God is also Love. He doesn't just love, He IS love. This is how the Scriptures refers to them. Jesus is the very word of God.

All of these useages are metaphorical. Not literal nor concrete. I am looking for a concrete Bibical definition of what a spirit is.

Originally Posted by TheSword99

After His Resurrection, Jesus told the disciples to touch Him. That he was not a spirit because a spirit does not have flesh and bone. God does not have a body of flesh and bone since he as referred to as a spirit.

And now you have separated God the Father, who you claim is spirit, from Jesus Christ who you point out here has a body of flesh and bones. If they are both God, then you have two Gods. Now is the Father the Holy Ghost? Is the Holy Ghost God? If so, then you have successfully arrived at the same place the Mormons have been for 180 years. 3 beings cl***ified as Gods but separate resulting in 3 gods.

Congratulations. Now if Joseph Smith is a prophet, you are an instant Mormon, just add water of baptism.

Marvin

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

All of these useages are metaphorical. Not literal nor concrete. I am looking for a concrete Bibical definition of what a spirit is.


And now you have separated God the Father, who you claim is spirit, from Jesus Christ who you point out here has a body of flesh and bones. If they are both God, then you have two Gods. Now is the Father the Holy Ghost? Is the Holy Ghost God? If so, then you have successfully arrived at the same place the Mormons have been for 180 years. 3 beings cl***ified as Gods but separate resulting in 3 gods.

Congratulations. Now if Joseph Smith is a prophet, you are an instant Mormon, just add water of baptism.

Marvin

You have been given an answer directly from the Bible.. That a Spirit is invisible.. That it is not a being of flesh and bone.. These you have dismissed because being Biblical they disagree with you.. If you reject the teaching of God through His word you have no hope.. IHS jim

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by James Banta

You have been given an answer directly from the Bible.. That a Spirit is invisible.. That it is not a being of flesh and bone.. These you have dismissed because being Biblical they disagree with you.. If you reject the teaching of God through His word you have no hope.. IHS jim

I am asking for a concrete definition of what spirit is. All you can tell me is spirit is invisible and that was a definition you cling to about God. Now if God is as different from man as you claim him to be, this definition cannot apply to the spirit of man, unless you are attempting to say that God the spirit is like the spirit of man.

I have dismissed nothing because you have offered nothing. How can I disagree with what you have presented when you have presented nothing. You can claim all you want that I have dismissed Bibical teachings but you haven't presented anything. When you say God is spirit and then you say spirit is invisible, you are unable to tell me whether it is the nature of spirit that is invisible or is God, who is all powerful, choosing to be invisible. You can't answer this because the Bible doesn't say.

If the Bible doesn't say anything about spirit (and no one has presented anything other than being invisible and that has an unanswered problem) how can you tell me what spirit is?

Marvin