What is Spirit?

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I talk about Smith because he is the authority on what mormonism is..

But he is not the subject of this thread. You keep sticking this red herring into the discussion. Let's stick to the subject.

Originally Posted by James Banta

He invented it! This is a channel about mormonism and what a spirit is can still be discussed by what momronism teaches.. Mormonism doesn't define what a Spirit is either so this whole subject ie outside the rules of this forum.. Stay withing mormonism going outside to bring in atheist subjects is against the rules..

But Mormonism does define what spirit is and very exactly. And when the time is right I will show you. But I thought you would know what the definition is. After all you used to be a member, didn't you?

Originally Posted by James Banta

If you are willing to accept the meaning as we have given from the Bible fine..

But the bible doesn't tell us.

Originally Posted by James Banta

Move it along.. But if you clamp onto atheistic subjects and want to discuss them then take it to that forum..

How is wanting to know what the bible say spirit is to be an atheistic subject?

Originally Posted by James Banta

I have told you that the Bible teaches that God is Spirit. That a spirit is not a being of flesh and bone. that a spirit is invisible..

Which means nothing because the Bible says nothing about what spirit is. And you are wrong. The scripture that you used says God is invisible. You haven't established that the spirit of man is like God so you can't say that spirit is invisible. Only God.

Originally Posted by James Banta

That is what the Bible teaches in the subject, I believe it you reject it..

I don't reject and I haven't said that I do. What I do reject is what you are attempting to tell me is what the Bible teaches. You do not use logic, you do not use scripture. you make logical jumps without any basis. What you believe is a figment of your imagination but is in no way Biblically based. You have proven this by the lack of scriptures in your reasoning.

Originally Posted by James Banta

FINE.. I have given you the word of God on the subject.. You are free to reject His message.. I am free to accept it.. IHS jim

You haven't been able to produce one verse of scripture that teaches us anything about what spirit is. There is nothing for me to reject. In fact, there is nothing. You don't know what spirit is, so you can't say it is immaterial matter because the Bible doesn't say what it is.

Marvin

[Knox]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

Please give the chapter and verses that SAYJesus is a spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Knox

1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Again no mention of God the Father. Maybe if you added the Adam God theory into the mix you might have a winner.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

Mormonism is based on the doctrines of men. The beliefs of its founder and his predecessors.

Marvin wants biblical proof for a belief that Christians have had from the beginning, but he doesn't ask for proof as to whether God has a body as tangible as man's or not! If the Bible doesn't spell out what a spirit is, then how can the lds believe God has a body when the bible nowhere says that? Seems Marvin ONLY wants proof for our Christian doctrines but not for lds beliefs!

And that we gave him.. It is clear that a spirit of a person is an en***y that has no physical form. It is invisible.. Sure there is a question whether a spirit can see another spirit.. That is unanswered as I see it.. But that just goes to again show how different the spiritual is from the natural..

You are a Christian, therefore you have no problem with the matter of the spirit being a en***y that is without natural form.. It makes sense to your regenerate mind.. To Marvin it is beyond his limited natural ability to understand.. He is unwilling to se what the Bible teaches and accept it by faith.. He would much rather believe the rants of man's memory from a time at least 14 years removed from the actual events. It is clear from the many versions of Smith "First Vision" that the number of Person that appeared to me is dubious. He age at the time is also in doubt, was he 14, 15, 16, or 17 year old boy? See http://www.lds-mormon.com/fv.shtml...

Seems to me that is God appeared to me the event would be locked into my mind for all time.. I guess that he like all LDS people has selective doubts. They are willing to accept conflicting and wild statements if they can develop the right emotional responses in their mind.. What the Bible tells us of spirit is enough for me.. I believe that you to find what God has preserved for us on this matter is sufficient.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

[Russianwolfe;75465]And you can't show me by the authority of the Bible what spirit is!! Is that strange or what?

I believe i have again and again.. You have rejected the sufficiency of scripture, I accept it.. I have also shown that there is not one shred of definition in any of the LDS books that when coupled with what the Bible teaches that tell us what a spirit is.. Unless you can provide it will we have to agree that knowing the makeup of such en***ies is not part of the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ..

Which means nothing because you have no Biblical definition of what spirit is?

And as I have shown you you have none is mormonism that when taken with the same demand for proof you put on the Bible all fail to give us a real definition of what Spirit is.. What the Bible says is sufficient for a regenerate spirit filled mind.. You apparently don't have such a mind..

But he told Abraham that circumcision was an eternal law. And then Peter comes along and says it isn't. God doesn't change? Why did Peter change the eternal law of circumcision?

Again you deny the meaning of of what the Bible teaches.. The law of circumcision does continue. I am surprised you don't know that. The Old Testament is all about the physical demands of the law, the New Testament is about the Spiritual.. We are told to have a circumcision of the heart (Romans 2:28-29).. Again you turn to the atheist to make attacks against the Word, and the Way.. I guess It's time to ask Jill to stop this because by your insistence I shouldn't bring mormonism into the discussion.. This line of argument is better suited to the atheism channel..

Jill this is not about mormonism but has turned to an attack of the Bible and the existence of God..

IHS jim

[ErikErik]

Originally Posted by Knox

1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Knox, do you know what the phrase, "quickening spirit" means? It does NOT mean that Jesus IS A SPIRIT, but that he imparts life. Read1 Corinthians 15:21, "for as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them, even so the Son quickeneth whom he will."

Any other verses you believe says that Jesus is a spirit? I don't know of any.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

Knox, do you know what the phrase, "quickening spirit" means? It does NOT mean that Jesus IS A SPIRIT, but that he imparts life. Read1 Corinthians 15:21, "for as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them, even so the Son quickeneth whom he will."

Any other verses you believe says that Jesus is a spirit? I don't know of any.

Since Jesus is both Spirit and Physical he can deal with the Church or the world in the appropriate manner as called for by the circumstances.. As he appeared to Moses in the burning bust He appeared as Spirit.. As He allowed the Elders of the People to see His back He was in His resurrected body.. But again mormonism will trip over the FACT that Jesus is the eternal God and time is his creation not His master.. IHS jim

[Knox]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

Knox, do you know what the phrase, "quickening spirit" means? It does NOT mean that Jesus IS A SPIRIT,

So when the Bible says Jesus is a spirit, it means He is NOT one, and where the Bible says that God is spirit, it means that He IS one.....where are you getting this from? Next you will be saying that where the Bible says that people saw God, it means they didn't, and that where it says that a remission of sins comes through baptism it means that it doesn't.

And where it says "up" it means "down," etc.....??

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Knox

So when the Bible says Jesus is a spirit, it means He is NOT one, and where the Bible says that God is spirit, it means that He IS one.....where are you getting this from? Next you will be saying that where the Bible says that people saw God, it means they didn't, and that where it says that a remission of sins comes through baptism it means that it doesn't.

And where it says "up" it means "down," etc.....??

The Bible never teaches that anyone has ever seen the Father.. NO WHERE.. In fact John says that it's Jesus that people saw then ever it was recorded that they saw God.. EVERY TIME WITHOUT EXCEPTION!

Jesus is a quicken Spirit.. The Bible teaches us that it is the spirit that quickens. What is it that it quickens? The BODY! Jesus is a quicken Spirit.. He has a BODY! That body is the image is the exact image of the invisible God..

One rules of Christian Biblical interpretation is that all the Bible MUST be true.. By saying that the Father has a physical body is to through away some very clear p***ages. You have no authority to do so.. So make it all true or admit that you can't and put personal revelation above the written word of God.. After all that is what you do even with your own books.. after all look at what Joseph Smith said about the nature of God in the BofM.. Go read 2 Nephi 31:21.. When I say that say exact same thing you howl and say I am wrong.. But the trinity is a common teaching in the early days of mormonism well after the time Smith said he received the first vision.. IHS jim

[ErikErik]

Originally Posted by Knox

So when the Bible says Jesus is a spirit, it means He is NOT one, and where the Bible says that God is spirit, it means that He IS one.....where are you getting this from? Next you will be saying that where the Bible says that people saw God, it means they didn't, and that where it says that a remission of sins comes through baptism it means that it doesn't.

And where it says "up" it means "down," etc.....??

Knox, I have asked you more than once to give me the verses that say Jesus is spirit. You haven't done it. You merely gave one single verse about Jesus being made a quickening spirit and I told you the meaning of that phrase.

BTW, GOD SAID no man can see Him and live. Did God Lie???

Jesus said no man has seen the Father at anytime except the Son. Did Christ lie???

[Knox]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

Knox, I have asked you more than once to give me the verses that say Jesus is spirit. You haven't done it. You merely gave one single verse about Jesus being made a quickening spirit

What part of "Jesus was made a spirit" doesn't qualify as an answer for you?

Hello?

Jesus
was
made a spirit

and I told you the meaning of that phrase.

You told me what you feel it means. That doesn't magically turn it into NOT being a verse that refers to Jesus as a spirit. Thanks for playing.

BTW, GOD SAID no man can see Him and live. Did God Lie???

BTW, Jesus said that the pure in heart will see God. Did Jesus lie? ?? ?? ??

[ErikErik]

Originally Posted by Knox

What part of "Jesus was made a spirit" doesn't qualify as an answer for you?

Hello?

Jesus
was
made a spirit


You told me what you feel it means. That doesn't magically turn it into NOT being a verse that refers to Jesus as a spirit. Thanks for playing.


BTW, Jesus said that the pure in heart will see God. Did Jesus lie? ?? ?? ??

Jesus was not MADE a spirit. (You changed the verse.) He is from everlasting to everlasting..the Alpha and Omega..without beginning or ending. He was with God in the beginning and was God. He was never a man like us.

Jesus' resurrected body is called ‘spiritual’ and ‘life-giving spirit’ because its source is the spiritual realm, not because its substance is immaterial. Christ’s supernatural resurrection body is ‘from heaven,’ as Adam’s natural body was ‘of the earth.

This won't make sense to you because the lds jesus is merely an exalted man, a god among zillions, your brother and the brother of the devil. You do not even know who Christ was before His incarnation. The biblical Christ created satan.

Please explain to me how a father can also be the brother of his son?

As for the pure in heart seeing God, yes, those who have been justified by faith in Jesus Christ and cleaned in His precious blood will be ushered into His holy presence the moment they p*** from this earthly life. It is our blessed hope to bow in His holy presence, cleaned, washed and robed in His pure righteousness.

Now do you think you can answer my questions?

GOD SAID no man can see Him and live. Did God Lie???

Jesus said no man has seen the Father at anytime except the Son. Did Christ lie???

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

Jesus was not MADE a spirit. (You changed the verse.) He is from everlasting to everlasting..the Alpha and Omega..without beginning or ending. He was with God in the beginning and was God. He was never a man like us.

Jesus' resurrected body is called ‘spiritual’ and ‘life-giving spirit’ because its source is the spiritual realm, not because its substance is immaterial. Christ’s supernatural resurrection body is ‘from heaven,’ as Adam’s natural body was ‘of the earth.

This won't make sense to you because the lds jesus is merely an exalted man, a god among zillions, your brother and the brother of the devil. You do not even know who Christ was before His incarnation. The biblical Christ created satan.

Please explain to me how a father can also be the brother of his son?

As for the pure in heart seeing God, yes, those who have been justified by faith in Jesus Christ and cleaned in His precious blood will be ushered into His holy presence the moment they p*** from this earthly life. It is our blessed hope to bow in His holy presence, cleaned, washed and robed in His pure righteousness.

Now do you think you can answer my questions?

GOD SAID no man can see Him and live. Did God Lie???

Jesus said no man has seen the Father at anytime except the Son. Did Christ lie???

So right brother.. Not one of us.. Not even a Great man of God like Paul in worthy of receiving anything from God in this body of death (Flesh).. Yes the pure of heart, and you said it right, those made perfect in Jesus will see God in the heavenly realm.. NOT HERE IN OUR BODIES OF SIN.. I thank God for your witness.. IHS jim

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by James Banta

So right brother.. Not one of us.. Not even a Great man of God like Paul in worthy of receiving anything from God in this body of death (Flesh).. Yes the pure of heart, and you said it right, those made perfect in Jesus will see God in the heavenly realm.. NOT HERE IN OUR BODIES OF SIN.. I thank God for your witness.. IHS jim

You are now guilty of adding to the scriptures. Christ said, Blessed be the pure in heart for they shall see God. Where do you get all the other stuff?

Marvin

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

Jesus was not MADE a spirit. (You changed the verse.)

Why doesn't this conflict with your doctrine of Christ was not created?

Originally Posted by ErikErik

He is from everlasting to everlasting

If you would only realize that your definition of this is from Greek philosophy and not ancient Hebrew.

Originally Posted by ErikErik

..the Alpha and Omega..without beginning or ending.

Again, you are misusing the scripture out of cultural context.

Originally Posted by ErikErik

He was with God in the beginning and was God.

Which means that He was with God the Father, who is God, and he was God because God the Father made him so. Which means that there are two Gods in heaven, at least.

Originally Posted by ErikErik

He was never a man like us.

And yet, Christ said that those who had seen him had seen the Father. I don't think it could be said any clearer. Which also contradicts the idea that God is invisible by nature.

Originally Posted by ErikErik

Jesus' resurrected body is called ‘spiritual’ and ‘life-giving spirit’ because its source is the spiritual realm, not because its substance is immaterial

Since you have no scripture that says that spirit is immaterial, you are stating a falsehood. No matter how you label it, Christ's resurrected body was a body of flesh and bones.

Originally Posted by ErikErik

. Christ’s supernatural resurrection body is ‘from heaven,’ as Adam’s natural body was ‘of the earth.

I would like to see the scripture you use to justify this statement. The apostles recognized Christ, thus lending the idea that the body that was resurrected looked like the body that they knew when he was mortal. Also, the tomb was empty. Which leads us to conclude that the same body that died was the same taht was resurrected.

Originally Posted by ErikErik

This won't make sense to you because the lds jesus is merely an exalted man, a god among zillions, your brother and the brother of the devil. You do not even know who Christ was before His incarnation.

You mean Jehovah? Since the Fall of Adam, Christ has been the mediator between God the Father and man. Unless the scriptures explicitly state otherewise, any appearance by God is Jehovah or Christ before the incarnation.

Originally Posted by ErikErik

The biblical Christ created satan.

Then God is responsible for all sin and wickedness in the world and man cannot be held responsible.

Originally Posted by ErikErik

Please explain to me how a father can also be the brother of his son?

That's your problem, not ours.

Originally Posted by ErikErik

As for the pure in heart seeing God, yes, those who have been justified by faith in Jesus Christ and cleaned in His precious blood will be ushered into His holy presence the moment they p*** from this earthly life. It is our blessed hope to bow in His holy presence, cleaned, washed and robed in His pure righteousness.

Can you provide the scriptures that link the Bea***udes with this concept?

Originally Posted by ErikErik

Now do you think you can answer my questions?

GOD SAID no man can see Him and live. Did God Lie???

Of course not. Why do you think he did? The scriptures witness to the fact that prophets have entered the presence of God and have not diedl. Moses and 70 of the elders of Israel saw God and lived. Adam saw God and lived. Isaiah saw God and lived. How do you reconcile these scriptural facts, with your scripture? Have the scriptures lied? Is the word of God confused?

Originally Posted by ErikErik

Jesus said no man has seen the Father at anytime except the Son. Did Christ lie???

See above. And please provide scriptures to back up your beliefs.

Marvin

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

You are now guilty of adding to the scriptures. Christ said, Blessed be the pure in heart for they shall see God. Where do you get all the other stuff?

Marvin

Really where did I come out with this added to set of scripture.. I said that those pure in heart will see God.. I interpreted it to mean that this won't happen until we have been brought into His Kingdom to ever be with the Lord.. Whether that be at our death or at the Great Day of God when He comes for His Church.. Not until that day will se see God. For the Bible tells is that no man has seen God at any time.. As men we will not be so honored as being made clean in the blood of Jesus with no more trace of the filth of the flesh then we will see Him.. That is the message.. Smith didn't see God. It is in violation of the word he has preserved for us.. That is a fairy story made up in his mind, for:

John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

At any time.. Any time means the past, present, and future.. All men are barred form this.. When we set aside humanity and take on the likeness of Jesus then and only then will we see as He does and he will manifest the Father to us.. Only then will we perceive that which is invisible.. IHS jim

[Knox]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

Jesus was not MADE a spirit. (You changed the verse.)

"...the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."

I didn't change it. If you think someone has changed the Bible so that it says that Jesus (the last Adam) was made a spirit who quickens people, then what did the original m****cript say? Here, check out other Bibles:

(New International Version, ©2010)
45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[a]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

(New American Standard Bible)
45So also it is written, "The first (A)MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL " The (B)last Adam became a (C)life-giving spirit.

(Holman Christian Standard Bible)
45 So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being ; (A) (B) the last Adam (C) became a life-giving Spirit.

Important Question: WHEN did Jesus become (or when was He made) a life-giving spirit?

a) He has always been that.
b) He became that life-giving spirit when He was born of the Virgin Mary.
c) He became that life-giving spirit when He was crucified.
d) other

Jesus' resurrected body is called ‘spiritual’ and ‘life-giving spirit’ because its source is the spiritual realm, not because its substance is immaterial.

Gee, that sounds a lot like what John 4:24 could mean where it says "God is spirit"--- that God's resurrected body is called ‘spiritual’ and ‘life-giving spirit’ because its source is the spiritual realm, not because its substance is immaterial. Excellent exegesis, Erik! You just explained J 4:24's intended meaning.

[James Banta]

[Russianwolfe;75154]But in the case of diamonds (and this is where your ****ogy fails completely) they are both created.

Can you know God's nature except by what He has done? I can't. Someday as I stand in His glory maybe I will be given more knowledge of His eternal nature.. What I was trying to say was that our spirits were created and His is different in that it has existed fro everlasting and will continue to everlasting.. He is eternal we and finite. By that description alone anyone can see that e differ from our Creator..

The Bible says that God 'formeth' it does not say that God 'createth' the spirit of man within him.

To form isn't an act of creation? That is news to me.. Even when a man forms an object such as a snow man it is his creation.. True when we do this we use preexistant material. In the case of a snowman we use snow.. So if God used some preexistant material that is fine it just wasn't "FORMED" into a spirit until it was so formed within us..

We have no scripture that says how spirit are created. We only know that they are created from what is refered to as intelligence. Every thing you said about spirits is your own private interpretation based on the understanding of men who were speculating. Surely you knew this!!!???

I don't care and have not stated how God formed the spirits of men.. I have only said that He formed them within us not is some preexistant world somewhere.. The bible tells us that we were not formed as a spirit until we had a body to form it in.. That isn't how, it when and where.. This straight forward explanation of where and when God formed our spirits is denied by mormonism.. You seem to have accepted that unbiblical doctrine and instead have taken a doctrine of a man believing the man over God.. Fine do so just STOP telling the world that you know better than God and our spirits were formed by a union of a heavenly Mother and Father and exited long before our bodies did.. That isn't the truth as sated in the scripture..

And you are ***uming that forms means the same as create. That is your interpretation. My understanding differs. If God formed but did not create the spirit of man within him, then it had to exist before it was formed within man. For your interpretation to be true, form would have to be the same as create which it is not. You form something from something else. That is not an act of creation as God would do for your interpretation to be true.

Is that not what mormonism does with the word create? Does it mean Ex Nihilo to you, No it means that God took self existent material and formed (Created) all things.. You are fighting here against yourself.. Are you willing to say now that because the Bible says that God created the heavens and the earth he did so Ex Nihiol. If that is what you are sayings here by dividing create and formed I am willing to give you the point.. But if you follow LDS teaching that God merely organized the universe from self existent material then I dispute your double meanings of the word create. When you want it to mean formed it means formed.. But in this case you don't want formed to mean create.. Get off that shifting sand!!!

You must be right because you just said so. NOT!

Me? I am willing to go by what the Bible teaches are you? What does create mean, Does it mean formed, or does it mean Ex Nihiol. You can have it both ways.. I can deal with what ever definition you want to use just pick ONE..

You have to interpret the Bible otherwise you will not understand it. I know that the Bible says something, but once you attempt to explain to me what it means you have to interpret it. So your claim of not interpreting the scripture is false.

You are correct in a real sense.. I take the interpretation that is clearly stated in each p***age.. You choose to make up your own meaning. This is like Ezek 37 where God tells us what the sticks are but mormonism makes up it's own meaning.. I will keep holding to the meaning of the words that are in the p***age as what any given p***age means.. You can keep looking for some hidden meaning that is not given anywhere but the minds of a man..

If anyone is aligning with the God haters, it must be you. You are not showing what you believe in meekness and humility as Peter said you should. All you have is what is not true, but you fail to show what is true in meekness and humility.

Really? You say that because I am willing to accept and happy with what God has told us about what spirit is and you insist on having more? I have given you all the Bible says about it.. I haven't invented anything.. Yet you demand more.. You make the same demand I have heard on the subject time and again as I have spoken to atheists. They are the God haters that I see your argument coming from.. These are their thoughts not mine..As I have said I have no problem at all accepting what God's word teaches. I make no further demands ans you and your God hating fiends do.. This shows you how I see this attack of yours. How about you show me how I side with them in any way..

I have asked very simple questions and attempted to keep you on topic. You have failed to provide any scriptures that answers any of the questions that I have asked. All you have is bluster. I have shown that God is invisible by choice and I have pointed out that if what you believe is true, then God has left a gaping hole in your salvation by not at the very least telling us what spirit is so we can know God as John 17:3 says is Life Eternal.

And I have given you what the bible says on the subject and like the God haters you reject it and make demands for more than what is given there.. Yes this is life eternal to know the only true God and Jesus whom He has sent.. maybe it means more than knowing that He is Spirit.. Maybe it means knowing His attributes and Him purposes along with knowing that He is an invisible person without flesh and bone.. Maybe there is a lot more about knowing Him. Knowing that He is LOVE, JUDGMENT, MERCY, LONG SUFFERING.. There seems to be many things to know of God. Maybe learning about them is a big part of keeping that verse.. But to you it seems more important to know what a spirit is made of.. I have given you what the Bible reveals on that subject..

How can asking questions make me a God hater. You have used this tactic before. It failed then and it will fail now. Name calling is not a valid debating technique.

It isn't the question it's the refusal to accept what God had given as an answer.. Every thing that the Bible has said on the subject has been given to you. You can accept it as a Christian would or reject it and seek some other information on the subject in other places until you come to your own personal interpretation of the meaning of SPIRIT.. In doing that you side with the God haters.. IHS jim

[Knox]

Originally Posted by James Banta

To form isn't an act of creation? That is news to me.. Even when a man forms an object such as a snow man it is his creation.. True when we do this we use preexistant material. In the case of a snowman we use snow.. So if God used some preexistant material that is fine it just wasn't "FORMED" into a spirit until it was so formed within us.. IHS jim

Good point, Jim. You sound LDS.

[ErikErik]

Originally Posted by Knox

"...the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."

I didn't change it. If you think someone has changed the Bible so that it says that Jesus (the last Adam) was made a spirit who quickens people, then what did the original m****cript say? Here, check out other Bibles:

(New International Version, ©2010)
45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[a]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

(New American Standard Bible)
45So also it is written, "The first (A)MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL " The (B)last Adam became a (C)life-giving spirit.

(Holman Christian Standard Bible)
45 So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being ; (A) (B) the last Adam (C) became a life-giving Spirit.

Important Question: WHEN did Jesus become (or when was He made) a life-giving spirit?

a) He has always been that.
b) He became that life-giving spirit when He was born of the Virgin Mary.
c) He became that life-giving spirit when He was crucified.
d) other


Gee, that sounds a lot like what John 4:24 could mean where it says "God is spirit"--- that God's resurrected body is called ‘spiritual’ and ‘life-giving spirit’ because its source is the spiritual realm, not because its substance is immaterial. Excellent exegesis, Erik! You just explained J 4:24's intended meaning.

Knox, being made a quickening spirit does NOT mean Jesus was MADE. You changed it to spirit leaving out the word quickening, which changes the meaning. Please get a Bible concordance and dictionary. You can usually get them in a set. It very clearly explains what quickening spirit means. What is a life giving spirit? It means Christ was able to give life, or impart life. By His death he reconciled man to God. By His atonement we can now have forgiveness and eternal salvation. That is the New Covenant. Jesus Christ said I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. He alone offers everlasting life.

God the Son was NOT MADE. He always was. Read Revelations again. What did God the Son say about himself? I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA. THE BEGINNING AND THE ENDING. He ALWAYS was. Unlike the mormon jesus who was a man made of corruptible flesh since all flesh is corruptible. Had to learn obedience because he was human and all humans are born with the nature to sin. Now this mormon jesus is some kind of exalted man. Oh and the mormon jesus was conceived the same way your parents conceived you. So yes, mormons believe jesus was MADE. But God said in His word, IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD AND THE WORD WAS GOD.

I asked you who or what what God the Son before His incarnation. Again, you avoided answering. Was He Jehovah God? If you believe He was, then He was always God and Not made like you and me.

Can't go back further than the BEGINNING now can we. Seems you habitually call God a liar. Every time I ask you questions about whether God lied, you avoid answering.

BTW, when did mormons start advocating different bible versions? I thought you guys only endorsed the KJV.

[ErikErik]

Originally Posted by Knox

"


Gee, that sounds a lot like what John 4:24 could mean where it says "God is spirit"--- that God's resurrected body is called ‘spiritual’ and ‘life-giving spirit’ because its source is the spiritual realm, not because its substance is immaterial. Excellent exegesis, Erik! You just explained J 4:24's intended meaning.

So you believe it was Heavenly Father that was resurrected? Marvin believes that.

[ErikErik]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

Why doesn't this conflict with your doctrine of Christ was not created?

If you would only realize that your definition of this is from Greek philosophy and not ancient Hebrew.

Again, you are misusing the scripture out of cultural context.

Which means that He was with God the Father, who is God, and he was God because God the Father made him so. Which means that there are two Gods in heaven, at least.

And yet, Christ said that those who had seen him had seen the Father. I don't think it could be said any clearer. Which also contradicts the idea that God is invisible by nature.

Since you have no scripture that says that spirit is immaterial, you are stating a falsehood. No matter how you label it, Christ's resurrected body was a body of flesh and bones.

I would like to see the scripture you use to justify this statement. The apostles recognized Christ, thus lending the idea that the body that was resurrected looked like the body that they knew when he was mortal. Also, the tomb was empty. Which leads us to conclude that the same body that died was the same taht was resurrected.

You mean Jehovah? Since the Fall of Adam, Christ has been the mediator between God the Father and man. Unless the scriptures explicitly state otherewise, any appearance by God is Jehovah or Christ before the incarnation.

Then God is responsible for all sin and wickedness in the world and man cannot be held responsible.

That's your problem, not ours.

Can you provide the scriptures that link the Bea***udes with this concept?

Of course not. Why do you think he did? The scriptures witness to the fact that prophets have entered the presence of God and have not diedl. Moses and 70 of the elders of Israel saw God and lived. Adam saw God and lived. Isaiah saw God and lived. How do you reconcile these scriptural facts, with your scripture? Have the scriptures lied? Is the word of God confused?



See above. And please provide scriptures to back up your beliefs.

Marvin

Here we go again. No matter how many times its explained to you that God said NO MAN CAN SEE ME AND LIVE, you and the the lds says Moses saw Him, other prophets saw Him. A guy named Smith saw him! So in actuality Marvin, you trust in and believe in men more than in God. This is why mormonism suits you. Its it based on doctrines of men.

Nowhere in all of Scriptures did any man ever SEE God. Please explain to me the need for God to cover Moses face? All men ever saw was God's GLORY. His brightness. No Face, No body. Please prove otherwise.

You still have not given me a single biblical reference that God has a body as tangible as man's. None of the lds on here has found a single verse in all of the Holy Bible.

[Knox]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

So you believe it was Heavenly Father that was resurrected? Marvin believes that.

I was merely agreeing with your explanation that proved that calling a deity a spirit does NOT mean that the deity can't also have a body. You said it yourself. What's good for Jesus is good for His Father. YOU proved, using the Bible, that "God is spirit" does not mean that God is ONLY a spirit. You proved that when you stated that "Jesus is a spirit" does not mean that Jesus doesn't also have a body.

So again, thanks for validating LDS doctrine.

[ErikErik]

Originally Posted by Knox

I was merely agreeing with your explanation that proved that calling a deity a spirit does NOT mean that the deity can't also have a body. You said it yourself. What's good for Jesus is good for His Father. YOU proved, using the Bible, that "God is spirit" does not mean that God is ONLY a spirit. You proved that when you stated that "Jesus is a spirit" does not mean that Jesus doesn't also have a body.

So again, thanks for validating LDS doctrine.

Never said a deity has a body of flesh and bone as tangible as man's. You're good at putting word's in one's mouth.

Guess you missed the verse where God said he is not a man.

anyway, since you repeatedly refuse to answer my questions, I ***ume you're just on here to play games.

WAS IT HEAVENLY FATHER WHO WAS RESURRECTED? Yes or no??? Your fellow mormon, Marvin says yes!

[Knox]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

Never said a deity has a body of flesh and bone as tangible as man's.

You don't need to say it. Jesus PROVED that a deity can have a body of flesh and bone that is so tangible that it even convinced Doubting Thomas. Now, if you choose to disagree with Jesus about the body of a deity, you are free to to do so, but that makes you at least as much a doubter as Thomas was.

anyway, since you repeatedly refuse to answer my questions, I ***ume you're just on here to play games.

You started the game, and I figured you wanted people to play along with you. Are you having second thoughts, now that you realize you are on the losing team?

Again, thanks for supporting the LDS doctrine that if the Bible refers to a deity as a spirit, it doesn't necessarily mean that the deity has no body.

(1 Corinthians 15:45)

WAS IT HEAVENLY FATHER WHO WAS RESURRECTED? Yes or no??? Your fellow mormon, Marvin says yes!

The Bible fully supports the idea that it's possible for Jesus' Father to be just as resurrected as Jesus is. NOWHERE does the Bible say that Jesus is the only deity in the universe who has been resurrected. The Bible says that Jesus is like His Father in every way. The Bible says that Jesus is a spirit yet it also says that Jesus has a body. The Bible says that Jesus only does what He has seen His Father do.

Add it all up, and it's a safer bet that the Father has a body like His Son does, than it is that only one-third of the Godhead has a body. Why would The Father allow all of us to be resurrected when He Himself is unable to be? Do you really think the Father gives people more than He Himself has?