Trinity diagram

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Pro-Truth

lol...what happened to this thread?

--It seems the thread was killed by the Trinity. Maybe the Trinity really is omnipotent! "Almost thou persuadest me to become a Trinity-worshiper."

[Pro-Truth]

Can any Mormon come up with a Biblical verse or p***age that contradicts the diagram? It's only the 5th page in this thread and I haven't seen one yet. I suppose the Trinity concept is Biblical, right?

[nrajeff]

Sure, it's "biblical" -- to a Trinitarian. But then, Arianism is biblical, to an Arian.

[Pro-Truth]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

Sure, it's "biblical" -- to a Trinitarian. But then, Arianism is biblical, to an Arian.

Hi Jeff - Create an Arianism thread and we can discuss things there. Until then, let's try and stay on topic. I'm still looking for any verse or p***age that Mormons say contradict the message of the diagram.

As you can clearly see, there are none. The concept of the Trinity clearly is Biblical. As I stated before, I can think of p***ages in the Book of Mormon (also the D&C and PofGP) that contradict the message of the diagram.

[nrajeff]

And as I stated before, there are LOTS of statements that, if made sufficiently ambiguous, will seem to agree with the Bible. As I ALSO said before, your triangle is so vague that even LDS can use it. Is that really what you WANT? Seems your agenda is more about being divisive than about showing what we and you have in COMMON, so one would think you'd want a diagram that's sufficiently detailed so it's actually useful in distancing you from us..

[Pro-Truth]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

And as I stated before, there are LOTS of statements that, if made sufficiently ambiguous, will seem to agree with the Bible. As I ALSO said before, your triangle is so vague that even LDS can use it. Is that really what you WANT? Seems your agenda is more about being divisive than about showing what we and you have in COMMON, so one would think you'd want a diagram that's sufficiently detailed so it's actually useful in distancing you from us..

If the diagram is so close to what you believe, why do parts of the Book of Mormon, the D&C, and Pearl of GP disagree with it?

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Pro-Truth

If the diagram is so close to what you believe, why do parts of the Book of Mormon, the D&C, and Pearl of GP disagree with it?

--What parts say that any of the 3 Persons is NOT deity? None, right?
So your beef must be with the parts that seem to say that Jesus is both Father and Son, right? If such verses, in your mind, contradict the Holy Triangle, then so do parts of the Bible. What's that--you say you are unaware of any such verses in the Bible? Just ask, and I will teach one to you. How did you think the Modalists were able to claim that Modalism was supported by the Bible? By the verses that seem to support Modalism, of course.

[Pro-Truth]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

--What parts say that any of the 3 Persons is NOT deity? None, right?
So your beef must be with the parts that seem to say that Jesus is both Father and Son, right? If such verses, in your mind, contradict the Holy Triangle, then so do parts of the Bible. What's that--you say you are unaware of any such verses in the Bible? Just ask, and I will teach one to you. How did you think the Modalists were able to claim that Modalism was supported by the Bible? By the verses that seem to support Modalism, of course.

Yes, Jeff...the verses in the Book of Mormon that teach Modalism. Please find a single verse in the Bible that teaches modalism; therefore, contradicting the diagram.

Thanks.

Also, don't forget the D&C and P of GP. They teach polytheism, which clearly is in contrast with the diagram.

How many "Gods" do you see in the diagram? I only see one.

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Pro-Truth

Yes, Jeff...the verses in the Book of Mormon that teach Modalism.

--I think you mean, "the verses in the BOM that seem to teach Modalism." Just like the BIBLE verses that seem to teach it, or the Bible verses that seem to teach Arianism..or literal-oneness Trinitarianism, for that matter.

Please find a single verse in the Bible that teaches modalism; therefore, contradicting the diagram.

---Do you think this challenge will be as "challenging" as the challenge to find a single time when Russ made an inaccurate statement?

Here ya go: How about Col. 1:15 which says that Jesus

"is the image of God invisible, the first begotten of each creature." (Wycliffe)

It seems to be saying that the INVISIBLE God is the first begotten of each creature. But other verses say that it's Jesus who is the first-begotten, so maybe the Bible, taken in totality, teaches that Jesus is the Father, since both are referred to as being the first begotten of every creature.

I mean, you want to take 1 Nephi 11:21 as teaching that Jesus is the Father, right?

("Behold the Lamb of God...the Eternal Father")

So you have to jump to the same conclusion if the Bible has a similarly Modalism-SEEMING sentence. Which it does, in Col. 1:15.
Bible: Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the first begotten of each creature.
BOM: Jesus is the Lamb of God, the Eternal Father.

Either they both teach Modalism, or neither does. Which is it, do you think?

Also, don't forget the D&C and P of GP. They teach polytheism, which clearly is in contrast with the diagram.

--You mean they teach polytheism like the BIBLE teaches polytheism?

No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. John 1:18 NASB et al

Pretty radical, huh?

How many "Gods" do you see in the diagram? I only see one.

---How many "Gods" do YOU see in John 1:18? The God whom no one has seen at any time, PLUS the only begotten God who has explained that other God. Looks pretty polytheistic to me. Are you saying that the Bible contradicts your little triangle thingy? Then which should I, as a Christian, believe? Maybe you should show me the evidence that your triangle is more authoritative than the Bible is.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

When Jesus was being tempted by Satan, was Jesus able to give in to those temptations had He wanted to?

Unless the temptation is real, then the victory over temptation is a moot point.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Unless the temptation is real, then the victory over temptation is a moot point.

This is interesting, jeff wants to cheapen the victory of Jesus over sin.. It was just that a victory.. He had a leg up only that He, like Adam, had no sin nature that forced him to sin. He was able to make a clean choice. Those of us born sinners would have failed that test every time.. Adam gave into sin he didn't have to.. Jesus was victorious be didn't have to obey.. He could have fallen under Satan's control as easily as Adam did. I praise Him that He did NOT do so.. IHS jim

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Pro-Truth

I would like for any Mormon to find a single verse in the Holy Bible that contradicts the message of the following Trinity diagram:



I have never been able to find one in the Bible; however, I know of p***ages in the Book of Mormon that do, which shows that they are not in harmony with one another. For instance:

Ether 3:14 (in the Book of Mormon) tells us, "Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son."

Also, Mosiah 15:1-5 "And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people. And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—And they are one God, yea, the very bEternal Father of heaven and of earth. And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people."

Both of those Book of Mormon p***ages contradict the diagram, but, not a single verse in the Bible does - that is, unless you can find one! I never have been able to.

The Holy Spirit is called God in Acts 5.