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Thread: What are the requirements to be a Christian?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    What does it have to do with being a Christian? Many people including atheists follow some of the commandments and that doesn't make them a Christian.
    The point it, that Christ throughout the whole of the New Testament makes the argument against the Pharisees that it is not their "chosen" status that will save them, nor their study of the scriptures, but rather parable after parable shows that Christ looks to the heart and the behavior of a person to see what they really believe and if they follow Him or not. That is the very purpose for the story of the Good Samaritan--it was the Samaritan who followed Christ's teachings and not the Pharisees.

    Matthew 21: 28-31 But what think ye? A [certain] man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I [go], sir: and went not. Whether of them twain did the will of [his] father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

    So, who is Christian? Is VERY MUCH like asking "who is my neighbor."

  2. #52
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    The point it, that Christ throughout the whole of the New Testament makes the argument against the Pharisees that it is not their "chosen" status
    The Jews as a group were never CHOSEN to salvation. This is completely different than the elect that we were talking about in the election thread that got deleted.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post

    So, who is Christian? Is VERY MUCH like asking "who is my neighbor."
    You believe that the Samaritan was a Christian. Make your case that he was a Christian. Give me the requirements. Which of course is the whole point of this thread.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    You believe that the Samaritan was a Christian. Make your case that he was a Christian. Give me the requirements. Which of course is the whole point of this thread.
    He behaved in a such a way that was in accordance with someone who was following the direction of the Spirit. While the Samaritan may not have recognized what to call his belief, he certainly followed the spirit that was given to him.

    Matt 25:14 For [the kingdom of heaven is] as a man travelling into a far country, [who] called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.


    Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.


    Mat 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made [them] other five talents.


    Mat 25:17 And likewise he that [had received] two, he also gained other two.


    Mat 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.


    Mat 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.


    Mat 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.


    Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, [thou] good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.


    Mat 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

    Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

    Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:


    Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, [there] thou hast [that is] thine.


    Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, [Thou] wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:


    Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and [then] at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.


    Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give [it] unto him which hath ten talents.


    Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

    Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    The Samaritan, while not having the opportunity to learn of the gospel of Jesus Christ in this life, will certainly have the opportunity at some point and will be judged according to the spirit that was given to him. To me, he was Christian as I define it--someone who follows the teachings/Spirit of Jesus Christ.

  5. #55
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    That is exactly my point---they were mixed--half-bloods, but Israelites non-the-less. (And as such, contended with the Jews regarding the temple, the priesthood, etc.--that was the "feud" you don't think existed--but it is very real and it discussed via prophecies throughout the OT and even into the NT.)
    Those of the ten tribes that were taken away into ***yrian captivity invented temples and priesthood just like Joseph Smith did in his perversion of the scripture.. Jesus made that clear to the woman at the well telling her that the Samaritans were not the people whereby salvation comes.
    John 4:22
    You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.

    Jesus made it clear that they were NOT correct in saying they had rights to anything of God.. The Kings of Israel, ALL of THEM were idols worshipers. They appointed their own priests, built their own temples to these false God. And you call that a feud over priesthood and worship? Nope that is like saying that Egypt and Judah were feuding over those matters.. It's not correct.. It is a man made invention.. Maybe a Julie made invention.. I believe that is more probable. IHS jim

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    He behaved in a such a way that was in accordance with someone who was following the direction of the Spirit.
    So a person who obeys rules is a Christian? Is that the requirements to be a Christian?

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    So a person who obeys rules is a Christian? Is that the requirements to be a Christian?
    A person who follows the SPIRIT of Christ is a Christian. Those who do not, are not.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    A person who follows the SPIRIT of Christ is a Christian. Those who do not, are not.
    So a person who FEELS that they are following a spirit is a Christian?

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Those of the ten tribes that were taken away into ***yrian captivity invented temples and priesthood just like Joseph Smith did in his perversion of the scripture.. Jesus made that clear to the woman at the well telling her that the Samaritans were not the people whereby salvation comes.
    John 4:22
    You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.

    Jesus made it clear that they were NOT correct in saying they had rights to anything of God.. The Kings of Israel, ALL of THEM were idols worshipers. They appointed their own priests, built their own temples to these false God. And you call that a feud over priesthood and worship? Nope that is like saying that Egypt and Judah were feuding over those matters.. It's not correct.. It is a man made invention.. Maybe a Julie made invention.. I believe that is more probable. IHS jim

    Both the Norhern Kingdom and the Southern Kingdom went astray from God.

    Hsa 5:12 Therefore [will] I [be] unto Ephraim as a moth, and to the house of Judah as rottenness.

    And they fought many wars as well.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    So a person who FEELS that they are following a spirit is a Christian?
    Is that what you think--the Good Samaritan "felt" like he was following the Spirit of Christ or was following the Spirit of Christ? Which one was it--was what he did good or just felt good?

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Is that what you think--the Good Samaritan "felt" like he was following the Spirit of Christ or was following the Spirit of Christ? Which one was it--was what he did good or just felt good?
    Do you believe that the Samaritan was Christian? If so what are the qualifications that he fulfilled?

  12. #62
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    BigJ this is not a hard question.

    What are the requirements to be a Christian?

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    BigJ this is not a hard question.

    What are the requirements to be a Christian?
    I answered this already--so again: A person who follows the SPIRIT of Christ is a Christian. Those who do not, are not.

    How do we know when someone is following the Spirit?

    Gal 5:23-24 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

    Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness and righteousness and truth

    As the Good Samaritan displayed gentleness, and can be seen in his goodness, and righteousness, I say that he was following the Spirit of Christ regardless if he had been taught of Christ formally yet or not--he knew Him via the Spirit which he followed. This is the point that Christ was making to the Pharisees--it is those who follow his Spirit who is following the commandment to love their neighbor--not the definition of "neighbor" defined by the Pharisees based on their understanding of the scriptures. As I said, you question "who is a Christian" or what are the "requirements" to be considered a Christian is comparable to the same question asked by the Pharisees.
    Last edited by BigJulie; 05-26-2011 at 12:35 PM.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    I answered this already--so again: A person who follows the SPIRIT of Christ is a Christian. Those who do not, are not.
    What about faith in Christ, baptism, or following the commandments, or certain rules and regulations? These are not required according to your LDS theology?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    What about baptism, or following the commandments, or certain rules and regulations? These are not required?
    When a person is baptized or follows the commandments, are they following the Spirit? (Of course they are. ) Yet, not everyone will have the opportunity to get baptized in this life--just as the Samaritans were not to have the gospel taught to them until after the death of Christ. But all have the opportunity to follow the portion of the Spirit given to them (see parable of the talents) and God will bless and reward them as they follow the Spirit.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post

    As the Good Samaritan displayed gentleness, and can be seen in his goodness, and righteousness, I say that he was following the Spirit of Christ regardless if he had been taught of Christ formally yet or not--he knew Him via the Spirit which he followed.
    Works make a Christian? What about faith in Christ?

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    When a person is baptized or follows the commandments, are they following the Spirit? (Of course they are. )
    OK now we are getting somewhere. Following the spirit is code for

    1. Baptism
    2. Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost
    3. Obeying the commandments

    Are these the requirements for being a Christian? Anything else?

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Works make a Christian? What about faith in Christ?
    Faith as defined by scripture is:

    Hbr 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

    So, the question becomes, can someone have faith in Christ who has never heard of Christ or learned of Christ? I point to the story of the Good Samaritan to show that someone can have faith in something hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. The Good Samaritan's faith rested in what the he knew in his heart to be true, but did not have absolute evidence of--that treating the man beaten on the side of the road was something right and good. He was following the commandment of Christ without being formally taught of Christ. Listen again to this parable:

    Matthew 21: 28-31 But what think ye? A [certain] man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I [go], sir: and went not. Whether of them twain did the will of [his] father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

    How is it that the publicans and the harlots can enter the kingdom of God before this "chosen" group? If faith of Jesus Christ is required---surely, somewhere, somehow, they must have been acting on faith with no formal knowledge of Christ.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by biblicalchristian View Post
    They sure are. Jesus said those who are not born of water, baptism, cannot enter the kingdom of God. That should show how important baptism is.
    So you would disagree with BigJ and say that the character in the parable i.e. the good Samaritan was not a Christian because he was not baptized?

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    How is it that the publicans and the harlots can enter the kingdom of God before this "chosen" group?
    The Jews were never "chosen" as a group for salvation BigJ.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    OK now we are getting somewhere. Following the spirit is code for

    1. Baptism
    2. Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost
    3. Obeying the commandments

    Are these the requirements for being a Christian? Anything else?
    For those who have heard of Christ and have been commanded to "repent and be baptized", then to ignore it would be as the man at the wedding who refused the wedding garment--it would have been better for them to not have heard the gospel of Jesus Christ and had the Spirit testify to them of what they should do.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    The Jews were never "chosen" as a group for salvation BigJ.
    And just like you, they thought they were via how they read the scriptures.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Matthew 21: 28-31 . . . Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
    1. Baptism
    2. Laying on of hand for the gift of the Holy Ghost
    3. Obeying the commandments


    So you do or do not have to obey the commandments to be a Christian?

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    And just like you, they thought they were via how they read the scriptures.
    They were NEVER "chosen" as a group for salvation.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    1. Baptism
    2. Laying on of hand for the gift of the Holy Ghost
    3. Obeying the commandments


    So you do or do not have to obey the commandments to be a Christian?
    The commandments that have been taught to you via the Spirit, yes, you need to obey (or repent often )...as I said in the parable of the talents, not all will be taught the gospel while on this earth, but all will have the opportunity to follow the Spirit as the Good Samaritan did. And then in the end, those faithful to what they have been given will all receive the same reward.

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