What are the requirements to be a Christian?

[dfoJC]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I agree.

Do you believe that being "born again" is a work of God and not of man, i.e. that God is the one responsible for regeneration?

Yes. When a person begins to study the Word and gains understanding of the whole Biblical concept of Salvation it is quite clear that it is, and only can be, a work of God. No man can "regenerate" himself. Men have tried, and in the end the "regeneration" is nothing more than a temporal behavioral change. No lasting effect. No relationship with God restored. Nothing but a very soulish undertaking. It in no way allows a man to enter into the new and living covenant which salvation is a part of.

Be blessed,

dfoJC

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dfoJC

Yes. When a person begins to study the Word and gains understanding of the whole Biblical concept of Salvation it is quite clear that it is, and only can be, a work of God. No man can "regenerate" himself. Men have tried, and in the end the "regeneration" is nothing more than a temporal behavioral change. No lasting effect. No relationship with God restored. Nothing but a very soulish undertaking. It in no way allows a man to enter into the new and living covenant which salvation is a part of.

Be blessed,

dfoJC

I agree with you 100%. A man can't make himself born again rather it is a work of God.


KING JAMES VERSION
John 3
3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8The wind ****eth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I agree with you 100%. A man can't make himself born again rather it is a work of God.


KING JAMES VERSION
John 3
3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8The wind ****eth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

So, by your definition--was the Good Samaritan a "Christian" or not?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, by your definition--was the Good Samaritan a "Christian" or not?

A person is a Christian if he has faith in Christ and is regenerated (regenerated then faith or faith then regenerated depending on an individual's belief). If he is not then he is not a Christian.

But you and Jim are the ones who throw around Christian verses non Christian so I am awaiting more information from both of you.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

A person is a Christian if he has faith in Christ and is regenerated (regenerated then faith or faith then regenerated depending on an individual's belief). If he is not then he is not a Christian.

But you and Jim are the ones who throw around Christian verses non Christian so I am awaiting more information from both of you.

So, according to you, was the Good Samaritan "regenerated" or not? What is your criteria to determine regeneration?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, according to you, was the Good Samaritan "regenerated" or not? What is your criteria to determine regeneration?

A Christian is one who is regenerated and has faith in Christ not simply one who does good works. There are many good people who do good works that are not Christian.

[Billyray]

BigJ and Jim I am still waiting for your list of requirements that define who is and who is not a Christian.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

BigJ and Jim I am still waiting for your list of requirements that define who is and who is not a Christian.

Not Christian--I can give you a list from Galations

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Not Christian--I can give you a list from Galations

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

So in order to be a Christian a person needs to obey the commandments. Is that a fair ***essment of your position?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

A Christian is one who is regenerated and has faith in Christ not simply one who does good works. There are many good people who do good works that are not Christian.

So, according to you, the Good Samaritan would clearly be labeled "not Christian."

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, according to you, the Good Samaritan would clearly be labeled "not Christian."

It is a parable BigJ. A person is not a Christian simply by doing good works.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

It is a parable BigJ. A person is not a Christian simply by doing good works.

Why did the Samaritan do what he did? Was it of God or something else?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Why did the Samaritan do what he did? Was it of God or something else?

What does it have to do with being a Christian? Many people including atheists follow some of the commandments and that doesn't make them a Christian.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

What does it have to do with being a Christian? Many people including atheists follow some of the commandments and that doesn't make them a Christian.

The point it, that Christ throughout the whole of the New Testament makes the argument against the Pharisees that it is not their "chosen" status that will save them, nor their study of the scriptures, but rather parable after parable shows that Christ looks to the heart and the behavior of a person to see what they really believe and if they follow Him or not. That is the very purpose for the story of the Good Samaritan--it was the Samaritan who followed Christ's teachings and not the Pharisees.

Matthew 21: 28-31 But what think ye? A [certain] man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I [go], sir: and went not. Whether of them twain did the will of [his] father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

So, who is Christian? Is VERY MUCH like asking "who is my neighbor."

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

The point it, that Christ throughout the whole of the New Testament makes the argument against the Pharisees that it is not their "chosen" status

The Jews as a group were never CHOSEN to salvation. This is completely different than the elect that we were talking about in the election thread that got deleted.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, who is Christian? Is VERY MUCH like asking "who is my neighbor."

You believe that the Samaritan was a Christian. Make your case that he was a Christian. Give me the requirements. Which of course is the whole point of this thread.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

You believe that the Samaritan was a Christian. Make your case that he was a Christian. Give me the requirements. Which of course is the whole point of this thread.

He behaved in a such a way that was in accordance with someone who was following the direction of the Spirit. While the Samaritan may not have recognized what to call his belief, he certainly followed the spirit that was given to him.

Matt 25:14 For [the kingdom of heaven is] as a man travelling into a far country, [who] called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.


Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.


Mat 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made [them] other five talents.


Mat 25:17 And likewise he that [had received] two, he also gained other two.


Mat 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.


Mat 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.


Mat 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.


Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, [thou] good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.


Mat 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:


Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, [there] thou hast [that is] thine.


Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, [Thou] wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:


Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and [then] at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.


Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give [it] unto him which hath ten talents.


Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The Samaritan, while not having the opportunity to learn of the gospel of Jesus Christ in this life, will certainly have the opportunity at some point and will be judged according to the spirit that was given to him. To me, he was Christian as I define it--someone who follows the teachings/Spirit of Jesus Christ.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

He behaved in a such a way that was in accordance with someone who was following the direction of the Spirit.

So a person who obeys rules is a Christian? Is that the requirements to be a Christian?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So a person who obeys rules is a Christian? Is that the requirements to be a Christian?

A person who follows the SPIRIT of Christ is a Christian. Those who do not, are not.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

A person who follows the SPIRIT of Christ is a Christian. Those who do not, are not.

So a person who FEELS that they are following a spirit is a Christian?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So a person who FEELS that they are following a spirit is a Christian?

Is that what you think--the Good Samaritan "felt" like he was following the Spirit of Christ or was following the Spirit of Christ? Which one was it--was what he did good or just felt good?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Is that what you think--the Good Samaritan "felt" like he was following the Spirit of Christ or was following the Spirit of Christ? Which one was it--was what he did good or just felt good?

Do you believe that the Samaritan was Christian? If so what are the qualifications that he fulfilled?

[Billyray]

BigJ this is not a hard question.

What are the requirements to be a Christian?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

BigJ this is not a hard question.

What are the requirements to be a Christian?

I answered this already--so again: A person who follows the SPIRIT of Christ is a Christian. Those who do not, are not.

How do we know when someone is following the Spirit?

Gal 5:23-24 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness and righteousness and truth

As the Good Samaritan displayed gentleness, and can be seen in his goodness, and righteousness, I say that he was following the Spirit of Christ regardless if he had been taught of Christ formally yet or not--he knew Him via the Spirit which he followed. This is the point that Christ was making to the Pharisees--it is those who follow his Spirit who is following the commandment to love their neighbor--not the definition of "neighbor" defined by the Pharisees based on their understanding of the scriptures. As I said, you question "who is a Christian" or what are the "requirements" to be considered a Christian is comparable to the same question asked by the Pharisees.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I answered this already--so again: A person who follows the SPIRIT of Christ is a Christian. Those who do not, are not.

What about faith in Christ, baptism, or following the commandments, or certain rules and regulations? These are not required according to your LDS theology?