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Thread: What are the requirements to be a Christian?

  1. #251
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by glm1978 View Post
    Billy,

    John 1:12-13 teaches that one must be spiritually and supernaturally reborn to become regenerated.
    John 1 NIV
    12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


    Hey are you, Erik, and the Sword roomates? It seems like you guys are taking turns at the computer.


    First off regenerated IS born again or spiritual birth. According to verse 13 can a person "will" himself to be reborn?

  2. #252
    glm1978
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    So who came in 3rd?
    Alan you did not quote all of what Walter Martin said on the youtube link that you posted earlier. Would you care to list the other points please.

  3. #253
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    For the readers, this disagreement that has been going from thread to thread does not involve Mormons but for whatever reason, the Mormons keep getting banned.
    BigJ this was a good thread until Sword highjacked it. I certainly hope this does not get deleted. BTW what LDS just got banned for participating in this thread?

  4. #254
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by glm1978 View Post
    Alan you did not quote all of what Walter Martin said on the youtube link that you posted earlier. Would you care to list the other points please.
    Glm1978 you don't believe Alan is a Christian do you?

  5. #255
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by glm1978 View Post
    Alan you did not quote all of what Walter Martin said on the youtube link that you posted earlier. Would you care to list the other points please.
    actually, I got to the one central idea that Walter Martin taught, as well as any good Bible teacher will also teach....

    That the only single requirement to being a Christian is that you must have faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    Compared to that one core idea, all this other talk of what came first theologically (a reformed version of the Chicken or the egg?) is moot.

    Just believe in the Christian teaching on the resurrection of Jesus Christ and you ARE a christian......

  6. #256
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by glm1978 View Post
    Billy,
    The light of God cannot dwell within a dark heart, so conversion first and regeneration second.
    So you do works first to purify yourself is that what you are saying?

  7. #257
    glm1978
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    BigJ this was a good thread until Sword highjacked it. I certainly hope this does not get deleted. BTW what LDS just got banned for participating in this thread?
    Your comment is derogatory. This is an open forum and anyone can post on the threads. So if you don't want comments from others take it to PM. You have posted more on this thread than anyone .

    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    John 1 NIV
    12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


    Hey are you, Erik, and the Sword roomates? It seems like you guys are taking turns at the computer.


    First off regenerated IS born again or spiritual birth. According to verse 13 can a person "will" himself to be reborn?
    The word is spelled roommates. I am neither Sword or Erik but if more than one person doesn't hold your view then we all must be attacking you, correct. Spiritual birth is a regeneration, on that you are correct, but Faith proceeds its. John 1:12-13 says Faith does come first. You posted the scripture and that is what it says so if you disagree with the scripture you need to take that up with God.

  8. #258
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by glm1978 View Post
    Your comment is derogatory. This is an open forum and anyone can post on the threads. So if you don't want comments from others take it to PM. You have posted more on this thread than anyone .
    It does happen to be my thread. And I started it in response to being labeled a non Christian by both Jim and BigJ. Other than a short reply to BigJ about regeneration this thread had nothing to do with Calvinism. This was interjected by the Sword and now has completely derailed this thread.

  9. #259
    alanmolstad
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    you have to understand one thing about the christian faith...It is a faith of the simple common people.

    If being a Christian was tricky, then none of us would be Christian.

    If being a Christian was due to being able to p*** a theology test of doctrine?.....none of us would be a Christian.

    The Christian faith is a faith that is easy to grasp...its simple..just believe and you ARE a Christian.

  10. #260
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by glm1978 View Post
    Spiritual birth is a regeneration, on that you are correct, but Faith proceeds its. John 1:12-13 says Faith does come first.
    John 1
    12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    Do you believe that you can "will" your regeneration?

  11. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    BigJ this was a good thread until Sword highjacked it. I certainly hope this does not get deleted. BTW what LDS just got banned for participating in this thread?
    Well, BibleChristian just got banned. I have looked at the LDS who have gotten banned and their last posts and for the life of me, I cannot see what was so offensive that Jill felt to ban them--but her site, her choice.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  12. #262
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Well, BibleChristian just got banned. I have looked at the LDS who have gotten banned and their last posts and for the life of me, I cannot see what was so offensive that Jill felt to ban them--but her site, her choice.
    When I was on MADB board that happened to me on multiple occasions.

    But I have a feeling that bibleChristian was a repeat LDS poster under a different name, but that is only a hunch on my part.

  13. #263
    ErikErik
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    It does happen to be my thread. And I started it in response to being labeled a non Christian by both Jim and BigJ. Other than a short reply to BigJ about regeneration this thread had nothing to do with Calvinism. This was interjected by the Sword and now has completely derailed this thread.
    This may be your thread but its still an open forum. Although this thread does not have to do with Calvinism, your views concerning regeneration does. It would be remiss if Christians let you go unchecked trying to teach others this false belief. Billyray, get your KJV and look at the footnotes for John 1, 12,13. BELIEF comes first.

    It really amazes me that others show you the scriptures that teaches faith precedes regeneration and you totally ignore that and keep harping about John1, 12,13 which doesn't say what you claim.


    Go ahead and do your own thing Billy, but if you teach something that conflicts with the Bible we will confront it on the forum. I thought you were a christian, but your actions and understanding of what the scriptures actually does teach, seems to proves otherwise.

  14. #264
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErikErik View Post
    Billyray, get your KJV and look at the footnotes for John 1, 12,13. BELIEF comes first.
    John 1
    12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    Erik do you "will" yourself to be born again?

    If you repent and place your faith in Christ then your regeneration IS based on your actions/works. i.e. you are willing yourself to be born again.
    Last edited by Billyray; 05-27-2011 at 06:04 PM.

  15. #265
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErikErik View Post
    I thought you were a christian, but your actions and understanding of what the scriptures actually does teach, seems to proves otherwise.
    so all Reformed Christians are not really Christians according to you?

  16. #266
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErikErik View Post
    Billyray, get your KJV and look at the footnotes for John 1, 12,13. BELIEF comes first.
    ESV Study Bible
    Born, not of blood … , but of God makes clear that neither physical birth nor ethnic descent nor human effort can make people children of God, but only God's supernatural work (8:41–47; cf. 3:16). This extends the possibility of becoming God's children to Gentiles and not just Jews (11:51–52; cf. 10:16). See also 3:3–8. To all … who believed … he gave the right indicates that saving faith precedes becoming members of God's family through adoption as his children.


    The Bible Knowledge Commentary:
    1:13. The new birth does not come by natural descent (lit., “of bloods”), nor is it the result of a human decision (lit., “the will of the flesh,” i.e., the natural human desire for children), nor is it the result of a husband’s will. The birth of a child of God is not a natural birth; it is a supernatural work of God in regeneration. A person welcomes Jesus and responds in faith and obedience to Him, but the mysterious work of the Holy Spirit is “the cause” of regeneration (3:5-8).

  17. #267
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErikErik View Post
    Billyray, get your KJV
    Oh yea I forgot you are a KJV only guy.

  18. #268
    ErikErik
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    John 1
    12:
    13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    Do you believe that you can "will" your regeneration?
    But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name

    Some sincere Christians believe that the sinner is regenerated by receiving the Spirit "before" he believes. But Paul makes it clear that the receiving of the Spirit happens when the sinner believes.

    Not of the will of the flesh means we are not saved through self-effort. Not of the will of man means not everyone will accept Christ.

    But of God: when you become saved, you aren't given a new birth by parents or other people, but God Himself.


    Faith is the means not the result. Nowhere does the Bible say that faith is created by regeneration. John 3::1-16 explains how God gives eternal life as a result of faith, not a requirement for faith. Eph 2:8 explains how it is through faith God made alive those who were dead in sins (Eph. 2:1-7). Regeneration is the result of receiving God’s eternal life, and that life is only available through faith (John 5:24; 20:31)

  19. #269
    Billyray
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    Matthew Henry Commentary on the Whole Bible (Complete)
    Originally written in 1706, Matthew Henry's six volume Complete Commentary provides an exhaustive look at every verse in the Bible.

    [John 1]
    "It is not produced by the natural power of our own will. As it is not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, so neither is it of the will of man, which labours under a moral impotency of determining itself to that which is good; so that the principles of the divine life are not of our own planting, it is the grace of God that makes us willing to be his. Nor can human laws or writings prevail to sanctify and regenerate a soul; if they could, the new birth would be by the will of man. But, 2. Positively: it is of God. This new birth is owing to the word of God as the means (1 Pet. i. 23), and to the Spirit of God as the great and sole author. True believers are born of God, 1 John iii. 9; v. 1."


    Erik I understand that you have a different point of view and I respect your view. You on the other hand do not respect my view.

  20. #270
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErikErik View Post
    Not of the will of man means not everyone will accept Christ.
    That is not what that says Erik. It says that you are not born again based on your own will or actions.

  21. #271
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErikErik View Post
    we are not saved through self-effort.
    Then how are you saved?

  22. #272
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErikErik View Post
    I thought you were a christian, but your actions and understanding of what the scriptures actually does teach, seems to proves otherwise.
    so all Reformed Christians are not really Christians according to you?

  23. #273
    James Banta
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    [QUOTE=BigJulie;89216]
    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post

    This is an evangelical site (not LDS) explaining the birthright. I hope it helps you to understand this stuff in a light that you can see and not be defensive about it.

    http://www.bibletruthonline.com/birt...MtoEPHRAIM.htm
    I see that and it is just what I have been saying in Judah is the promise of kingship. In Judah is the promise of the Messiah. Sounds like it is Judah that received the double portion of the birthright and not Joseph.. But then Joseph did receive a double portion of his father's property.. Even if holding the right of king over the people, isn't Jesus the best of the inheritances? Your insistence to be of the house of Joseph and therefore the people of the birthright has lost it's power I would say.. That promise to Jacob that through him all the world would be blessed in the best and most important promise made to him, Issac, and Abraham.. IHS jim

  24. #274
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by glm1978 View Post
    so conversion first and regeneration second.
    Conversion = Faith and repentance

    Regeneration = born again or spiritual life


    So a person can be converted and thus saved but not regenerated?

    When does a person enter into the Kingdom of God?

  25. #275
    Billyray
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    Conversion = Faith and Repentance = Salvation

    Regeneration = spiritual birth (awakens the person spiritually)


    Conversion and regeneration are distinct. Conversion is based on things that you do which is repent and place your faith in Christ. Regeneration is something God does to you by awakening you spiritually or being born again.


    Conversion----->Salvation----->Regeneration (Arminian)


    Regeneration---->Conversion----->Salvation (Reformed)


    In the Arminian position a person is converted thus saved prior to regeneration. By definition a person repents and places his faith in Christ and this must precede regeneration even if by a second or less. Thus a person is saved but not born again even just for a moment. The Reformed position is that a person is regenerated then converted.

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