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Thread: What are the requirements to be a Christian?

  1. #276
    alanmolstad
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    When does a man become a Christian?.....

    It works out like this:
    The man may have a different faith, or no faith at all.
    The message of the Lord reaches the man and he listens.

    This message sinks down into him about the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and what that means to people...

    He believes in the resurrection....
    Now in that moment he believes, at that instant, at that single heartbeat...... he is a Christian.

    and yes, it may take the whole rest of his life to conform his life to the image of Christ.
    But he is truly a Believer, he is truly a Christian, he is truly now and forever more, "saved".....

    it's that easy to become a Christian.

  2. #277
    alanmolstad
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    Now that I have shown how easy it is to become a Christian, I think I should next talk about the many common questions some people have that are in outreach to the CULTs or have friends and family in a CULT.

    Questions:
    Can a Christian have extra books besides the bible they turn to for religious guidance? ....Yes....As long as the person does not turn away from the teaching of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    can a Christian believe in baptism for the dead?......Yes

    Can a Christian have more than one wife?....yes

    Can a christian hold to a teaching that there are still Apostles?...yes

    Would a person who does not believe in drinking coffee or beer still be able to hold onto that idea and yet become a Christian?...yes

  3. #278
    akaSeerone
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Now that I have shown how easy it is to become a Christian, I think I should next talk about the many common questions some people have that are in outreach to the CULTs or have friends and family in a CULT.

    Questions:
    Can a Christian have extra books besides the bible they turn to for religious guidance? ....Yes....As long as the person does not turn away from the teaching of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    can a Christian believe in baptism for the dead?......Yes

    Can a Christian have more than one wife?....yes

    Can a christian hold to a teaching that there are still Apostles?....yes

    Would a person who does not believe in drinking coffee or beer still be able to hold onto that idea and yet become a Christian?....yes
    You are going to have to do more than just say yes to your questions. You need to back up why with Bible.

    Andy

  4. #279
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by akaSeerone View Post
    You are going to have to do more than just say yes to your questions. You need to back up why with Bible.

    Andy
    the post's answers should be clear enough to anyone if they takes a moment and thinks it over....

    Its like, can a man drive a car and be a Christian?...yes
    Can a man be totally disgusted at his President and be a Christian?...yes
    Can a man be against all countries fighting in any wars and be a Christian?...yes

    The thing Im pointing to is that "acting" like a Christian, or "acting" not like a Christian is a moot point when talking about if a person actually "is' a christian.

    The ONLY thing that makes a person a Christian is their faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    As long as the person does not mess with that single core Christian idea, they are Christian.

    So all of the window dressing of a christian life, like being the husband of only one wife, or submitting to your government, speaking in tongues or having a good reputation are always going to be merely secondary to the only real important issue to a christian's salvation.....DO THEY BELIEVE IN THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS?

  5. #280
    akaSeerone
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    Nothing can be further from the Truth.

    You have left out the part where Mormonism has tried to redefine the Bible and teach a Jesus and God that simply is not found in the Bible, so your rationalization is the flesh's meaningless attempt to sound Christian and is equal to Jesus saying to Peter get thee behind me Satan for you savorest the things of man, not of God.

    Andy

  6. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    the post's answers should be clear enough to anyone if they takes a moment and thinks it over....

    Its like, can a man drive a car and be a Christian?...yes
    Can a man be totally disgusted at his President and be a Christian?...yes
    Can a man be against all countries fighting in any wars and be a Christian?...yes

    The thing Im pointing to is that "acting" like a Christian, or "acting" not like a Christian is a moot point when talking about if a person actually "is' a christian.

    The ONLY thing that makes a person a Christian is their faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    As long as the person does not mess with that single core Christian idea, they are Christian.

    So all of the window dressing of a christian life, like being the husband of only one wife, or submitting to your government, speaking in tongues or having a good reputation are always going to be merely secondary to the only real important issue to a christian's salvation.....DO THEY BELIEVE IN THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS?
    I think this is how the world defines Christianity---I don't think it is necessarily how Christ defines Christianity. Abraham, Moses, and Joshua--I would define as part of Christ's church. And I look to the words of Christ and how he looks to the heart. I also understand that it is only God that understands truly what His spirit has shared and how those who have it have or have not acted upon it. As I said before, this question reminds me so much of the question "who is my neighbor?" because we want to put these guidelines on it that is not really ours to decide fully (just as the Pharisees wanted to define who was "in" and who was "out."---this is a judgement by God. And when push comes to shove, He will be the judge, not us. So, all we can do is observe what is and isn't Christian behavior. I ***ume that those who act in a Christian way are acting out of the goodness of God and those who do not, are not.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  7. #282
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    .....So, all we can do is observe what is and isn't Christian behavior. I ***ume that those who act in a Christian way are acting out of the goodness of God and those who do not, are not.
    My point is that simply fails...

    We can not define the term "Christian" by the manner we live like....
    The only thing that we can use to define the term "Christian" is the faith of the person.
    And of the things that a Christian has faith in, the most important (above all other things) is the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    There are millions if not Billions of people alive on the earth that are acting in a manner traditionally characterized as "Christian"....yet they are not Christian at all and could be of any faith or have no faith at all.

    take a moment and listen to the ideas of a person who we honor by being on this forum http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdmIQkX7_no

  8. #283
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    I ***ume that those who act in a Christian way are acting out of the goodness of God and those who do not, are not.
    BigJ you aren't a Christian because you do good works. If this were the case then anyone who does good works would be Christian. Atheists do good works. Muslims do good works. Mormons do good works.

  9. #284
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Conversion = Faith and Repentance = Salvation

    Regeneration = spiritual birth (awakens the person spiritually)


    Conversion and regeneration are distinct. Conversion is based on things that you do which is repent and place your faith in Christ. Regeneration is something God does to you by awakening you spiritually or being born again.


    Conversion----->Salvation----->Regeneration (Arminian)


    Regeneration---->Conversion----->Salvation (Reformed)


    In the Arminian position a person is converted thus saved prior to regeneration. By definition a person repents and places his faith in Christ and this must precede regeneration even if by a second or less. Thus a person is saved but not born again even just for a moment. The Reformed position is that a person is regenerated then converted.
    Bump for an Arminian response. Do you guys agree or disagree with the above post?

  10. #285
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Do you guys agree or disagree with the above post?
    Its like watching two sides debate over what came first...the chicken or the egg?

  11. #286
    ErikErik
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Bump for an Arminian response. Do you guys agree or disagree with the above post?

    It has nothing to do with Calvinism or Arminianism, but what the word of God says. Christians must align themselves with the teaching of Scriptures and not of men. The Bereans didn't just take Paul or Silas's word, they searched the Scriptures. God provides sufficient grace to all; pleads with us ("come unto me" Matt. 11.28) so "If any... whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely" (John 7.37, Rev. 22.17). Man is not regenerated by doing something special but by believing the Lord Jesus as his Savior: "to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave the power to become children of God; who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1.12-13)

    Regeneration is God making a person spiritually alive, a new creation, as a result of faith in Jesus Christ. Before salvation, we are degenerate. After salvation we are regenerated. Conversion is the outward manifestation of regeneration.

    The attainment of the fullness of such conversion is by the gradual appreciation of truth, resulting not only from regeneration, and knowledge, but from spiritual illumination of the mind. This is why the born again Christian is able to understand Scripture.

    The bottom line is that FAITH is the key for these things to take place. This is what God's word says.

  12. #287
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Its like watching two sides debate over what came first...the chicken or the egg?
    In a sense you are correct

    Regeneration then conversion
    Conversion then regeneration.

    For the Arminian they elect themselves. They repent themselves. They develop faith themselves. Their salvation is based on their own works and actions. In essence they will their own regeneration by their actions. Am I wrong here?

  13. #288
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErikErik View Post
    Regeneration is God making a person spiritually alive, a new creation, as a result of faith in Jesus Christ.
    Conversion (repentance and faith)----->Salvation----->Regeneration

    Erik do you agree with the above formula?

  14. #289
    ErikErik
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    Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet. 1.23,25). You are born-again (regenerated) through believing the gospel upon it being preached unto you; not regenerated until you believe.

    This is the common denominator seen throughout the Scriptures. FAITH and BELIEF. We can try and define born again, spiritual rebirth, conversion, regeneration, etc, but it all begins with the word: BELIEVE.

    As many as were ordained to eternal life believed" (Acts 13.48). How were they ordained to believe? By God foreknowing their free-choice. This is how wonderful and loving God is. He calls all to repentance.

  15. #290
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErikErik View Post
    After salvation we are regenerated. Conversion is the outward manifestation of regeneration.
    Conversion = Faith and repentance = Salvation

    Regeneration = awakens the person spiritually

    When is a person saved?

    So which comes first conversion or regeneration? You said above conversion is after regeneration. But that is what I believe so you could not possibly believe that.

  16. #291
    ErikErik
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Conversion (repentance and faith)----->Salvation----->Regeneration

    Erik do you agree with the above formula?

    I already told you what I believe.

  17. #292
    ErikErik
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Conversion = Faith and repentance = Salvation

    Regeneration = awakens the person spiritually

    When is a person saved?

    So which comes first conversion or regeneration? You said above conversion is after regeneration. But that is what I believe so you could not possibly believe that.
    Billy, you are missing the whole point of spiritual rebirth/regeneration. It begins with hearing the word and then believing.

  18. #293
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErikErik View Post
    As many as were ordained to eternal life believed" (Acts 13.48).
    So who believed from YOUR scripture?

  19. #294
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErikErik View Post
    Billy, you are missing the whole point of spiritual rebirth/regeneration. It begins with hearing the word and then believing.
    I believe you. But if you have read my posts you would already know that

    Reformed camp, the ordo salutis is
    1) election
    2) predestination
    3) gospel call
    4) inward call
    5) regeneration
    6) conversion (faith & repentance)
    7) justification
    8) sanctification
    9) glorification

  20. #295
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErikErik View Post
    Billy, you are missing the whole point of spiritual rebirth/regeneration.
    Conversion = Faith and repentance = Salvation

    Regeneration = awakens the person spiritually

    When is a person saved?

    Conversion----->Salvation----->Regeneration (Agree or disagree?)

  21. #296
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErikErik View Post
    I already told you what I believe.
    No you didn't.

    Conversion (repentance and faith)----->Salvation----->Regeneration

    Erik do you agree with the above formula?

  22. #297
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErikErik View Post
    How were they ordained to believe? By God foreknowing their free-choice.
    So you elected yourself and then God ratified your own election.

    If you elect yourself. Repent yourself. Muster up the faith yourself. In essence saving yourself and causing your regeneration. Doesn't this give you room to boast?

  23. #298
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    In a sense.....
    The Arminian/Calvin debate...
    Its such a waste of time...

    Its like listening to people talk about the logical steps a young man takes as he falls madly in love with a girl.

    People are just people.

    We are not programed like that guys...

    We do not have a faith life that is able to be rendered to a numeric list ....as if the Christian teaching of Salvation can be read off like a pre-flight check list.

    There is only one matter that is important, and compared to it the whole Arminian/Calvin debate becomes seen as little more than bothersome .

    The resurrection of Jesus is why we are Christians...

    Changing the meaning of the resurrection, changing the Jesus of the resurrection, or rejecting the resurrection's importance is why a person is not a Christian.

    This forum section is about Mormons, and in that light I know that there are many issues that the Mormons teach that run counter to my own views.
    But that does not mean anything...

    You can be a Christian and have extra Canon.
    You can be a Christian and have your own Apostles
    You can be a Christian and have your own temple
    You can be a Christian and have secret handshakes, secret names.

    You can have all the the trimmings that you ***ociate with the Mormon church and still be Christian....as long as you return to the only central idea behind the Christian faith,,,,the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    If a person does not change who Jesus Christ is, If the person does not change the meaning of the Christian churches teachings about the death and resurrection of the true Jesus Christ of the bible....then there is room for many things that are at best debatable side-issues.

    But change who Jesus Christ is?....Change the story of the resurrection?...and it dont matter what other what else a person has faith in....you are still not a Christian
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 05-28-2011 at 09:43 AM.

  24. #299
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    The Arminian/Calvin debate...
    Its such a waste of time...

    Its like listening to people talk about the logical steps a young man takes as he falls madly in love with a girl.
    And this thread was going along just fine speaking about requirements to be a Christian until Sword felt the need to derail it. Maybe Sword should of started a new thread?

  25. #300
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    And this thread was going along just fine .....
    Now i have to go mow the gr*** for the next few hours....I hope when i return indoors and check this website I find many interesting posts and if Im lucky a few questions directed in my direction...

    I would hate to see this topic cleared just because the same people had the same argument over the same issues that they have on all the other cleared topics....

    (You would be surprised at how well the "Ignore" setting on this forum works to suppress people who break rules or are annoying)

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