What are the requirements to be a Christian?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Suffice it to say, I still believe that it is our LOVE of God that makes a Christian and that can be seen as we FOLLOW the Spirit.

Thus your believe that faith in Christ is NOT required. This is false BigJ.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Do you believe John 6?

I believe the entire Bible is the word of God. What I disagree with is your interpretation. You read these verses through the lens of Calvinism. God does not predestine some for heaven and the rest for ****ation. What he does predestine is that those who choose Christ, receive all the benefits that God had ordained from the foundation of the world for them to receive. We become the "elect" after we become Christians. This is when we are adopted as God's children.

Man does have a choice and this is why men will be held accountable at the Judgment.

I marvel that you ignore every single p***age that says: believe in me, believe in the Lord Jesus. if you are thirsty, come, If you are hungry, come. If you call on the name of Christ he will in no wise cast you out. If you seek me I can be found. He knocks waiting for us to answer.

God is not wanting any to perish Billy. What do YOU do with that verse?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Well, Alan, ....

not catching us , nor our manners at our best...thats clear...

as is my embarr***ment that I was unable to point my younger brothers to the door.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Define

1. Conversion

2. Regeneration/born again

We have defined it for you over and over Billy. And yet you ask the same things over and over because you do not like the answers.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

I believe the entire Bible is the word of God.

Then you should have not trouble talking about John 6. Your position does not allow you to accept that chapter so you must run to other verses to support your position.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

We have defined it for you over and over Billy.

You have absolutely not defined it. That is why I have asked you over and over again. Maybe if you define it we can understand each other's position a little bit better.

Define

1. Conversion

2. Regeneration/born again

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

God does not predestine some for heaven and the rest for ****ation.

Do you believe that God knew everything that you would do and where you would end up BEFORE creating the world?

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Why didn't you respond to the verses in John 6?

Because its been discussed already and you didn't like every biblical answer we give. You know Billy, I have been googling Calvinism and Reformed Theology for the past few days and they give the same p***ages you do for proof text. Then I read all the refutations and what the Bible as a WHOLE teaches about regeneration, etc. I'm sorry, Billy, but Calvin was wrong concerning Predestination and limited grace/atonement. If one buys into this entire teaching, then one will not see the errors of it until the Holy Spirit reveals it.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

Because its been discussed already and you didn't like every biblical answer we give.

How did you explain the verses in John 6 using the verses in John 6? You didn't. You ran to other verses for support.

Bottom line Sword, as I have said many times before, there are verses that support your position and there are verses that support my position. I respect your position but you do not respect my position and you have even called me a cult member for my position. You are making this personal. And I will persist as long as you do.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

If one buys into this entire teaching, then one will not see the errors of it until the Holy Spirit reveals it.

Again your arrogance rears it's ugly head. You think you are right and the Reformed position is wrong. You are not even trying to see my position because you are too busy telling me I am wrong.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Again your arrogance ...... .

settle down kids.....

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Billyray

You have absolutely not defined it.

see this is why i keep asking Sword/Billy to take this topic asde to its own area.

The fact is,,,,Sword actually did define his terms, and did so with some clear wording... (Post 414)
Now I may not agree with his understanding, but I can see when he makes a real attempt to define his terms and he has, and he did so good enough to move the conversation on to other issues.

But the fact that we are still getting to read a request to define the same terms over and over means that this topic is more or less , doomed.

Take it to a non-Mormon setting guys, and enjoy yourselves without interruption.
heck I will even buzz over to see who seems to have the most ammo in his arguments?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

The fact is,,,,Sword actually did define his terms, and did so with some clear wording... (Post 414)

Here is post 414 he did not define the terms. He said regeneration and born again are the same thing, and I agree. I have always stated that born again = regeneration.

Originally Posted by TheSword99

. . .Since regeneration is the same thing as being born again. we are dead in our sins until we come to the Cross on bended knee and humble ourselves and seek mercy and forgiveness. You cannot be born again before you are regenerate since they are one and the same thing. Belief in Christ must come first. Therefore when we come to Christ we come as unregenerate seeking the new birth.

Define

1. Conversion

2. Regeneration/born again

[alanmolstad]

you know.....try as i might, there actually is only one thing i can do....well two things really.

i can :
#1 - suggest other ways to go

#2 - I can put people on my IGNORE LIST and block them from ever being able to appear on my computer screen again.

I like to use way number #1 because its easy and allows the conversations in the future to go on.
But I always keep #2 on-deck in case he has to pinch-hit

[ErikErik]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Here is post 414 he did not define the terms. He said regeneration and born again are the same thing, and I agree. I have always stated that born again = regeneration.

Define

1. Conversion

2. Regeneration/born again

We have done that. We gave you the scriptures. You have had several Christians on here try to tell you that you are mistaken. Why is it you refuse to heed what we say and at least seriously consider all that we have shared with you.You keep saying that you agree that regeneration means the same thing as born again. However, you claimed that you were regenerated before you had believed in the true gospel and repented. You were still lds. You were still unsaved, Billy. One must BELIEVE and REPENT before he can be born again Therefore you were not regenerated yet. You had not yet come to the Cross.

When we are born again, God begins to change us from the inside. These changes are signs of our conversion. Peace, love for others, a new heart, etc. These are signs of conversion. Of one's spiritual rebirth.

Billy, here's a verse I want you to look up: Galatians 4:16. Paul is speaking to his friends. We too are speaking to you as friends and fellow Christians.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

One must BELIEVE and REPENT before he can be born again Therefore you were not regenerated yet. You had not yet come to the Cross.

Please define the terms for me. Thus for you have not. Trust me I do have a point which I will show you after you give me your definitions.

Define

Conversion

Regeneration

[alanmolstad]

oh,,so we want to step up the game I see?
call my post a bluff are you?

very well...Final warning Billy....

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

One must BELIEVE and REPENT before he can be born again

What verse are you using that says your must be saved BEFORE you are born again?

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

And if we love Christ, we love each other and stop trying to decide who is "in" with Christ and who is "out" with Christ.

Amen.

Marvin

[dfoJC]

I mentioned several thousand posts ago that to be a Christian one must be born again. This is the basic and profound tenet of Christianity.

I do not see that "belief in the resurrection" would make someone a Christian. For someone could believe that and remain in "sin."

To be a Christian, a fundamental change must take place. Jesus told Nicodemus it was obligatory to be born again, thus He used the word "must."

So, where does that leave us? If you remain in the sin nature you were born in, then you are not a christian. Pay very close attention here. No man can rid himself of that nature, it is a work of the Holy Spirit! Not water baptism can rid us of that nature. Not obeying the 10 commandments can rid us of that nature, not reading the Bible, praying or any of that can rid us of the sin nature. And to be a Christian, you must be rid of that sin nature, otherwise you remain apart from God.

The "old" must p*** away, so that we can be made new. This is what
Christianity is all about! Rebirth is the work of the Holy Spirit. We don't initiate that work, He does.

Look at what II CO 5:17-18 says; "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation, old things have p***ed away; behold all things have become new. Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their tresp***es to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation."

Salvation is a powerful thing. For it changes the essence of who we were, and makes us into a whole new man.

So, to put it another way to be labeled "Christian" one must have been made new, the old has to go, for we cannot be "little Christ's" as long as the old nature resides in us.

This is my last 2 cents on the subject, I hope it helps those who read it.

blessings,
dfoJC

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dfoJC

. . . sin nature. . .No man can rid himself of that nature, it is a work of the Holy Spirit. . .Rebirth is the work of the Holy Spirit. We don't initiate that work, He does.

Agree 100%.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

When we are born again, God begins to change us from the inside. These changes are signs of our conversion.

After initial regeneration/conversion (or conversion/regeneration as you state) are lives become more and more Christlike over time which is called sanctification.

[ErikErik]

Originally Posted by dfoJC

I mentioned several thousand posts ago that to be a Christian one must be born again. This is the basic and profound tenet of Christianity.

I do not see that "belief in the resurrection" would make someone a Christian. For someone could believe that and remain in "sin."

To be a Christian, a fundamental change must take place. Jesus told Nicodemus it was obligatory to be born again, thus He used the word "must."

So, where does that leave us? If you remain in the sin nature you were born in, then you are not a christian. Pay very close attention here. No man can rid himself of that nature, it is a work of the Holy Spirit! Not water baptism can rid us of that nature. Not obeying the 10 commandments can rid us of that nature, not reading the Bible, praying or any of that can rid us of the sin nature. And to be a Christian, you must be rid of that sin nature, otherwise you remain apart from God.

The "old" must p*** away, so that we can be made new. This is what
Christianity is all about! Rebirth is the work of the Holy Spirit. We don't initiate that work, He does.

Look at what II CO 5:17-18 says; "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation, old things have p***ed away; behold all things have become new. Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their tresp***es to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation."

Salvation is a powerful thing. For it changes the essence of who we were, and makes us into a whole new man.

So, to put it another way to be labeled "Christian" one must have been made new, the old has to go, for we cannot be "little Christ's" as long as the old nature resides in us.

This is my last 2 cents on the subject, I hope it helps those who read it.

blessings,
dfoJC

I agree. dfoJC, thanks for your post. I have always found your posts to be consistent with the Scriptures.

On this thread we received lots of different answers. One said belief in the Resurrection is the only requirement. This is false. Others have said they were regenerated before they were spiritually born again and then in the next sentence said that regeneration and rebirth are one and the same thing.

Without the Holy Bible as our guide, we will not be consistent and end up having some false beliefs. I do not say this to be unkind.

It is the work of the Holy Spirit who prompts and convicts sinners. I totally agree with you. Head knowledge does not make one a Christian. It has to be a heart conviction. In order to have a heart conviction, one must have true faith. This faith is more than merely believing. Those who claimed to have been a Christian and then ended up joining a cult or not believing anymore, had only head knowledge. Because if they truly BELIEVED in the Gospel and the true Messiah, They would have been born again, adopted into the family of God and receive eternal life.

One thing I did notice that was missing from your post (although I know you will agree that it is important for salvation) is that you made no mention of the necessity of belief. One must believe on the Lord Jesus. If it were all God's doing and man only needs to sit back, then faith would be unnecessary. The Holy Spirit provides Illumination through the preaching of the scriptures. Faith comes by the hearing of the word. The next step is our response to that preaching. Throughout the NT whenever anyone asked what must I do to be saved, they were never told: "You can't do anything. Just sit back and let God do it all." Nor did the apostles ever say: If you were elected before the foundation of the world, you will be saved no matter what you do. But if God chose you for hell, sorry you are doomed and have nothing to say about it." This was the erroneous teaching of Augustine and Calvin. The Bible tells us that Jesus Christ died for the WORLD, not just for some.

What the Scriptures DOES teach is that one must BELIEVE in Jesus Christ and confess with the mouth that He is Lord and Savior. This is a requirement for spiritual rebirth. I capitalized the word believe because it is more than mere belief, for even the devil believes and trembles. its a conviction of the heart and not the head.

I agree with you dfoJC, nothing more needs to said. I pray the lds reading this thread will receive some illumination and respond to the promptings of the Holy Spirit by giving their life to Jesus and make Him their Savior and not their church or their works.

[Billyray]

Erik were you saved after you were converted (faith and repentance)?

[Billyray]

Erik how does one who is spiritually dead in sins and tresp***es save himself by repenting and placing his faith in Christ?