What are the requirements to be a Christian?

[dfoJC]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

I agree. dfoJC, thanks for your post. I have always found your posts to be consistent with the Scriptures.

On this thread we received lots of different answers. One said belief in the Resurrection is the only requirement. This is false. Others have said they were regenerated before they were spiritually born again and then in the next sentence said that regeneration and rebirth are one and the same thing.

Without the Holy Bible as our guide, we will not be consistent and end up having some false beliefs. I do not say this to be unkind.

It is the work of the Holy Spirit who prompts and convicts sinners. I totally agree with you. Head knowledge does not make one a Christian. It has to be a heart conviction. In order to have a heart conviction, one must have true faith. This faith is more than merely believing. Those who claimed to have been a Christian and then ended up joining a cult or not believing anymore, had only head knowledge. Because if they truly BELIEVED in the Gospel and the true Messiah, They would have been born again, adopted into the family of God and receive eternal life.

One thing I did notice that was missing from your post (although I know you will agree that it is important for salvation) is that you made no mention of the necessity of belief. One must believe on the Lord Jesus. If it were all God's doing and man only needs to sit back, then faith would be unnecessary. The Holy Spirit provides Illumination through the preaching of the scriptures. Faith comes by the hearing of the word. The next step is our response to that preaching. Throughout the NT whenever anyone asked what must I do to be saved, they were never told: "You can't do anything. Just sit back and let God do it all." Nor did the apostles ever say: If you were elected before the foundation of the world, you will be saved no matter what you do. But if God chose you for hell, sorry you are doomed and have nothing to say about it." This was the erroneous teaching of Augustine and Calvin. The Bible tells us that Jesus Christ died for the WORLD, not just for some.

What the Scriptures DOES teach is that one must BELIEVE in Jesus Christ and confess with the mouth that He is Lord and Savior. This is a requirement for spiritual rebirth. I capitalized the word believe because it is more than mere belief, for even the devil believes and trembles. its a conviction of the heart and not the head.

I agree with you dfoJC, nothing more needs to said. I pray the lds reading this thread will receive some illumination and respond to the promptings of the Holy Spirit by giving their life to Jesus and make Him their Savior and not their church or their works.

Thank you EricEric for your observations in regard to belief, yes, a very essential part of being born again.

But this does offer an interesting pov, did belief come before or after being born again? I know for me, I had about 3 months of exposure to Christianity before I was born again. If someone had asked me if I believed in God, I don't think my answer would have been yes, for it was something that I had never really considered.

When I was born again, I only remember this overwhelming sense of my sinfulness before God. So, there must have been some "belief," right? As Hebrews says, one must believe He is. God by Grace came to me that night and removed my sinful nature. I can remember that as clearly as if it happened yesterday. The next day when I woke up, I knew something very profound had occurred to me, if you had asked me then, I would have said, I feel a freedom that I had never experienced before. I couldn't explain it anymore than that. Now after years of study, I know what took place and can pretty much explain that, yet, can I say I completely understand the power of Salvation? Sure, but I know there is much more to it that being born again.

You have spoken well EricEric, thank you for that. I so agree with you in regards to Mormons and what they believe, may they come to Christ and His saving grace.

God bless and have a wonderful Memorial Day.

dfoJC

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dfoJC

When I was born again, I only remember this overwhelming sense of my sinfulness before God. So, there must have been some "belief," right? As Hebrews says, one must believe He is.

I believed in Christ as far back as I can remember (the LDS Christ) I was taught the Bible also as far back as a young child as well from the LDS POV. I believed both but God changed my heart and opened my eyes to the truth and this was clear as day to me. My faith prior to that was in the LDS Jesus but AFTER God changed me I placed my faith in the true Jesus. For me it was God and God alone responsible for my conversion, and therefore the glory goes to God alone.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So you can be saved without being regenerated?

Originally Posted by ErikErik

I already said no. Why don't you read my posts? I'll say it again: regeneration and spiritual rebirth/being saved are the same thing.

Conversion (repentance and faith)

Erik isn't a person saved after he has repented and placed his faith in Christ?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

You have had several Christians on here try to tell you that you are mistaken. . . However, you claimed that you were regenerated before you had believed in the true gospel and repented.

Erik other Christians are here trying to tell you that you are mistaken.

Originally Posted by Jean Chauvin

Question: What does that mean, regeneration precedes faith.

Answer: Again, it means God regenerates you via your nature, and then you have the ability to choose good, thus giving you faith. Contrary to the free willies, who believe faith precedes regeneration.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dfoJC

I know for me, I had about 3 months of exposure to Christianity before I was born again.

I think the Bible talks about the path of your salvation like this:

We are saved by Grace though faith.
Faith comes by hearing,
Hearing by the word of God.


lets break it down:
Grace is the thing that saves us.

Grace = is favor where none is called for, none is owed, none is expected.


The path Grace takes to save us is faith.

faith= is seeing where you cant see, knowing what cant be known...trusting what cant be pointed to.

So where does our faith come from?

Faith comes from Hearing Jesus speak to our hearts. hearing the knock at the door of our heart....listening to that Voice of Christ speak to us and call un to himself. This is where that general call we read about in the Bible for all men to come to the cross, suddenly calls us by name....its no longer a story about people recorded in a book, its about ourselves.

and where does hearing come from?

The Bible.....the Word....the written and spoken word that God has given us to show Himself to us...



So because of Grace, the word reaches you...
a verse here, a spoken word there, a message about jesus, a fact you think about...a story that reaches you.

This sinks down into the good earth that your heart is. and grows.

The result is that the dry words of the Bible become living words in your life as you now hear them come alive to you. The calling of Christ is heard by your heart to join with Jesus.

This props you to have trust that the same Jesus spoken of in the Bible will be able to save you just as is talked about in the church and recorded in the Bible.
You see the work of God in this world ...you see yourself as "His"....and He is "Your God and savior"........

and the church population has increased by another number.....

[ErikErik]

Originally Posted by dfoJC

I had about 3 months of exposure to Christianity before I was born again.

.

dfoJC

I am glad to see you on here dfoJC and hope you will continue to participate. Your posts are excellent and very scriptural.

Faith comes by the hearing of the word of God. I believe exposure to the Truth over time brings about illumination that we are sinners in need of a Savior.

Romans 10:17: So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God..

Hopefully our witness on this forum will help the lds to see the Truth.

[ErikErik]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Erik other Christians are here trying to tell you that you are mistaken.

Billy, the member you quoted from subscribes to Calvinism. What do you think his screen name means? Its the French spelling of John Calvin.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by ErikErik

Billy, the member you quoted from subscribes to Calvinism. What do you think his screen name means? Its the French spelling of John Calvin.

Right, And your point?

[dfoJC]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I think the Bible talks about the path of your salvation like this:

We are saved by Grace though faith.
Faith comes by hearing,
Hearing by the word of God.


lets break it down:
Grace is the thing that saves us.

Grace = is favor where none is called for, none is owed, none is expected.


The path Grace takes to save us is faith.

faith= is seeing where you cant see, knowing what cant be known...trusting what cant be pointed to.

So where does our faith come from?

Faith comes from Hearing Jesus speak to our hearts. hearing the knock at the door of our heart....listening to that Voice of Christ speak to us and call un to himself. This is where that general call we read about in the Bible for all men to come to the cross, suddenly calls us by name....its no longer a story about people recorded in a book, its about ourselves.

and where does hearing come from?

The Bible.....the Word....the written and spoken word that God has given us to show Himself to us...



So because of Grace, the word reaches you...
a verse here, a spoken word there, a message about jesus, a fact you think about...a story that reaches you.

This sinks down into the good earth that your heart is. and grows.

The result is that the dry words of the Bible become living words in your life as you now hear them come alive to you. The calling of Christ is heard by your heart to join with Jesus.

This props you to have trust that the same Jesus spoken of in the Bible will be able to save you just as is talked about in the church and recorded in the Bible.
You see the work of God in this world ...you see yourself as "His"....and He is "Your God and savior"........

and the church population has increased by another number.....

Thank you Alan for your observations. The night I was born again the Word was preached, in a way that I had never heard before. As I mentioned my only exposure to Christianity was a 3 month summer attendance at a Baptist Church some years before.

Everything you speak of is true. The Word becoming alive is probably for me one of the most powerful aspects of following Christ, my first memory verse was Jeremiah 33:3, "call unto me and I will answer thee and show you great and mighty things which thou knowest not." Wow, how true that has been over the years.

Take care, and again, thanks for your perspective,

dfoJC

[BrianH]

Originally Posted by Billyray

People on this board throw around the term Christian verses non Christian. What exactly are the requirements to be a Christian?

Since the topic of this board is Mormonism, the only relevant response is to identify what Mormonism requires to meet the implications of that appelative.

According to Mormonism, one must

• pay feilty to Joseph Smith
• swear loyalty to the LDS church
• wear special underwear
• learn secret p***words, handshakes and "tokens" (gesticular signs) in a secret initiation rite and
• believe that there really was a vast civilization somewhere in the Western Hemisphere (Mormons cannot tell us exactly WHERE), that was populated by millions of Jewish American Indians who transmitted their entire religious tradition through ONE copy of ONE book of alleged Hebrew "scriptures", supposedly written in "Egyptian" and
• These Jewish American Indians somehow operated a "Christian" "Church" and quoted the New Testament liberally hundreds of years before Christ himself was even born

...among other absurdities.

If Mormons were right and the above really was the requriement for being a Christian ...well, I guess I could never be a "Christian".

thanks anyway

-BH

.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Billyray

You have absolutely not defined it. That is why I have asked you over and over again. Maybe if you define it we can understand each other's position a little bit better.

Define

1. Conversion

2. Regeneration/born again

Bump for Sword or Erik for an answer.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dfoJC

Thank you Alan for your observations. The night I was born again ......

Thanks for reminding me of a an important fact...
There are some many guys who have all kinds of lists and systems that describe salvation and how it occurs....

its important to remember that in some cases, the journey from being lost to being found takes one night....

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

its important to remember that in some cases, the journey from being lost to being found takes one night....

Who would disagree with that Alan? I don't think anyone.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dfoJC

Thank you Alan for your observations.

Its fun to write to you.

If you got any questions for me to chew on....just let me hear em.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

. . .What he does predestine is that those who choose Christ. . .

So you pick yourself then God predestines you?

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Billyray

People on this board throw around the term Christian verses non Christian. What exactly are the requirements to be a Christian?

Being a Christian is not determined by the acceptance of any creeds established after the death of Jesus Christ. While they may seem to be theologically sound they are unnecessary. We don't need church fathers to interpret what it means to be a true believer and disciple of Christ. Accepting the Athanasian, Apostle's, or Nicene Creed in no way makes you a Christian. A wonderful pastor actually spoke about this 2 weeks ago. It was heartfelt and academically and spiritually minded.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by That Guy

Being a Christian is not determined by the acceptance of any creeds established after the death of Jesus Christ. While they may seem to be theologically sound they are unnecessary. We don't need church fathers to interpret what it means to be a true believer and disciple of Christ. Accepting the Athanasian, Apostle's, or Nicene Creed in no way makes you a Christian. A wonderful pastor actually spoke about this 2 weeks ago. It was heartfelt and academically and spiritually minded.

I agree Guy, all you need to believe to be a Christian is that Jesus is God and God is, eternally God, all knowing, all powerful, the creator of ALL things, and alone as God.. In short only what the Bible says about Him.. If you deny or change His attributes you have changed who and what He is. Therefore you have created your own God and will not submit to the one true and living God. This mean you are NOT A CHRISTIAN.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

[QUOTE=James Banta;89345]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I see that and it is just what I have been saying in Judah is the promise of kingship. In Judah is the promise of the Messiah. Sounds like it is Judah that received the double portion of the birthright and not Joseph.. But then Joseph did receive a double portion of his father's property.. Even if holding the right of king over the people, isn't Jesus the best of the inheritances? Your insistence to be of the house of Joseph and therefore the people of the birthright has lost it's power I would say.. That promise to Jacob that through him all the world would be blessed in the best and most important promise made to him, Issac, and Abraham.. IHS jim

I guess when Julie started thinking about this the question of birthright being in the house of Joseph went right out the window.. There is question that the sons of Joseph would have even had the right to bear mormon priesthood.. After all his wife was of Egypt and the founder of Egypt was under the ban:
Abraham 1:23, 24, 26
The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus...from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land...Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days...but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood.

And the Bible teaches that Pharaoh gave Joseph the name Zaphenath-Paneah and gave him Asenath daughter of Potiphera, priest of On, to be his wife. And Joseph went throughout the land of Egypt (Genesis 41:45).. Yes I know that the LDS church say she wasn't of the linage under that ban but that isn't confirmed in the Bible.. He married a woman of EGYPT.. IHS jim

[HopefulSaint]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I agree Guy, all you need to believe to be a Christian is that Jesus is God and God is, eternally God, all knowing, all powerful, the creator of ALL things, and alone as God.. In short only what the Bible says about Him..

Where does Jesus claim that He (Jesus) alone, is God? MY Bible quotes Jesus saying that His Father is the only true God. So my Bible contradicts your belief. Which should I put my trust in as being the correct theology?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by HopefulSaint

MY Bible quotes Jesus saying that His Father is the only true God.

Thus you have to believe that Jesus is a false God.

[alanmolstad]

In the beginning, was the WORD.
and the WORD was with God

and the WORD was God....


The WORD became flesh....

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by HopefulSaint

Where does Jesus claim that He (Jesus) alone, is God? [MY[/B] Bible quotes Jesus saying that His Father is the only true God. So my Bible contradicts your belief. Which should I put my trust in as being the correct theology?

Jesus agreed with Moses who received the teaching from Jesus as the God that spoke to Him on Mt Sinai that "the Lord our God is one Lord" (Deut 6:4, Mark 12:29). Yet Jesus said it was correct to call Him Lord for so He is (John 13:13). And he said that He is the I AM that spoke to Moses, the Jew understood that because they thought he was blaspheming (John 8:58-59). Jesus also accepted worship from Thomas as He called Him Lord and God (John 20:28). It is clear that Jesus claimed to be God and allowed others to worship Him as such.. Are you sure your bible has all the books and references mine does? Yes, the Bible teaches that the Father is the only true God and so He is.. But Jesus and the Holy Spirit are also the Only true God.. For all of them are called God in the Bible and the Bible also teaches that there is ONE GOD.. If all three of these Persons are called God and there is only one God then God in a trinity of Persons and each of then is the only true God, and yet together they are still one God.. The trinity is the only doctrine I have heard that allows the whole of the Bible to be true.. IHS jim

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Decalogue

Blasphemer

Who are you calling a Blasphemer?

[dfoJC]

HopefulSaint;92135]Where does Jesus claim that He (Jesus) alone, is God? MY Bible quotes Jesus saying that His Father is the only true God. So my Bible contradicts your belief. Which should I put my trust in as being the correct theology?

Do us all a favor HopefulSaint, when you make a claim that "your bible says" please give us chapter and verse so that we can at least have an idea where you are getting this from. For all we know, it could be the JST.

However, Jesus also says this; "He who seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, "show us the Father?" Jesus then goes on to clarify this very important point by adding, " Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves." (John 14:10-11)

Pretty straightforward I would say. Now put your trust in that p***age.

dfoJC

[HopefulSaint]

Originally Posted by dfoJC

[COLOR="Blue"]Do us all a favor HopefulSaint, when you make a claim that "your bible says" please give us chapter and verse so that we can at least have an idea where you are getting this from.

Here's a deal for you: You make sure that the people who attack the LDS stop just saying "The Bible says...." and I will try to always cite chapter and verse too, for as long as they do the same.

I will start right now:

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

John 17:3 NKJV