What are the requirements to be a Christian?

[jdjhere]

So Jesus isnt MY God?

[jdjhere]

but the Father is?

[jdjhere]

True? False? Short concise answer so I dont have to look through gibberish?

[jdjhere]

Hmmm, looks like everybody went to bed. Tomorrow perhaps I will get an answer.... goodnight all

[HopefulSaint]

Originally Posted by jdjhere

So wait..that IS two gods then?

Yes, that is correct. But if you're a Christian, then regardless how many gods and lords there are, and regardless where they are--on Earth, or up in heaven--to you there is only one God (Jesus' Father) and to you there is only one Lord (Jesus).

[alanmolstad]

there is only one God, the Mormon gods are fake...

The one God is father/Son. and Holy Spirit.

[Decalogue]

Originally Posted by Billyray

What do you think that I "don't seem to quite understand"?

Billyray --- Glad to read that you are not L.D.S.. Obviously you and I think differently. Rather than ask a Mormon something that they do not know and cannot fathom... because they may be "warm-hearted" , but are Biblically unaware people.... IMO , you should have TOLD them the differences of what the Bible says about Christianity and what the L.D.S. system says.

Mormons are taught that Jesus is the spirit-brother of Lucifer and was produced by a daddy-god in times past. Nobody that buys into that kinda thinking is going to have a clue as to what real Biblical Christianity is.

I guess that your Thread was started by you to make a point ,,, but after reading the whole 20 pages now...

{ minus most of the posts by the LDS folks on here ... because they simply are clueless as to the thread ***le / question. }

... I agree with what poster/member BrianH said on page 19 ; This whole Thread should have been placed over in the Christianity section of this website . It should NOT be in the "Mormonism" section. I realize that this website is lightly moderated because the founder has other duties and "many fish to fry" , so people sometimes get a little carried-away with certain issues.

Your replies to several people on this Thread (IMO) have not been helpful to getting the true Gospel message out to the LDS folks who may visit W.M. Ministries Forum.

On this Thread , at least one member is a well meaning Christian - but , alas he wears Arminian gl***es , and can only see scripture verses that go along with John 3:16 and the Finney/Moody/Sunday/Graham "sawdust trail" evangelical/evangelistic method.

{That member replied to one of my posts and for some "knee-****" anti-John Calvin reason , needlessly bad-mouthed "Calvinism" in a thread which had nothing to do with the Genevan Reformer. I would betcha he has never even read one page of The Ins***utes of the Christian Religion ...! }

That member ( and yourself ) need to move this whole Thread over to the "Christian" section and not confuse the LDS and other curious visitors to the website.

Another member on this Thread ( who is probably a Christian ) is another part of the problem. That poster insulted the Creeds that have historically been the succinct , re****al / refutation of wrong and wicked doctrines of the gnostics and pagans. They ( The Creeds of Early Christianity )are in paragraph/page long form and have great explanations of what real Christians have held to since the earliest days of Christianity... !!

Those are The Apostles Creed ; The Nicene Creed ; and the Athasian Creed ; and the Formula of Chalcedon. These are the things which SHOULD be read and understood and will answer in a memorable form that the average Joe or Jane human can understand. Please do NOT throw out the good Theology/ Christology of the 4 main Creeds just because they are older than you are.

Do a search engine and look up any of those Creeds and read them for yourself. If you have a 1940 Episcopal Hymnal at home or a 1941 Lutheran Hymnal , you have some great Theology / Christology within reach. Open up and read the Nicene Creed --- ..." Very God of very God ..." " Begotten not made"... Oh folks , that is rich ! Only cultists and the devil hisself hate the Creeds. Read the Creeds and decide for yourself.

Those creeds which have stood the test of time against the forerunners of the J.W.s and the oneness pentecostal nutcases and the sexually obsessed mormon founders of the L.D.S. , will be around long after you and I are gone.

Christianity is Deep ! Christianity is also simple enough that children can understand it. Seems it is the adults that get all wobbly-bobbly in the head and can't seem to understand the black and white of scripture.

The basic - simple answer to your Thread question is simply this: Read what the Lord Jesus said as recorded for us in the Gospels and Acts and Revelation. Follow Him !

Read what the Apostles of The Lord Jesus said as recorded for us in the Acts and Epistles and Revelation. Do them !

Read all of God's written word starting at Genesis 1:1 and read the whole Older Testament , then you can understand what you/me/we are guilty of and why you/me/we need a Saviour.

If anyone reading this Thread needs more details on the Christian Faith and how to be a Biblical Christian then read / look-up ( Search Engine ) The 3 main Creeds that I mentioned above.

For more in-depth Theology/Christology / Soteriology / Pneumatology ? Ecclesiology , read the : The 39 Articles of Religion ; The 2nd London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689 ; The Three Forms of Unity ; and if you have a copy of The Open Bible ( Nelson Publishers ) , read and study "The Christian-Life Study Outlines" .

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Decalogue

. Rather than ask a Mormon something that they do not know and cannot fathom... because they may be "warm-hearted" , but are Biblically unaware people.... IMO , you should have TOLD them the differences of what the Bible says about Christianity and what the L.D.S. system says.

Do you think that people simply accept something that you tell them or perhaps is it better to ask them a question and let them come up with the answer themselves? IMO the later works better.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Decalogue

Mormons are taught that Jesus is the spirit-brother of Lucifer and was produced by a daddy-god in times past

I am not LDS now but I was born and raised LDS so I know all about Mormonism.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Decalogue

.. I agree with what poster/member BrianH said on page 19 ; This whole Thread should have been placed over in the Christianity section of this website . It should NOT be in the "Mormonism" section.

I completely disagree. What is more important to a Mormon than determining if they are really a Christian or not. They call themselves Christian. So this is completely relevant to the discussion at hand.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Decalogue

Billyray --- Glad to read that you are not L.D.S.. Obviously you and I think differently. Rather than ask a Mormon something that they do not know and cannot fathom... because they may be "warm-hearted" , but are Biblically unaware people.... IMO , you should have TOLD them the differences of what the Bible says about Christianity and what the L.D.S. system says.

Mormons are taught that Jesus is the spirit-brother of Lucifer and was produced by a daddy-god in times past. Nobody that buys into that kinda thinking is going to have a clue as to what real Biblical Christianity is.

I guess that your Thread was started by you to make a point ,,, but after reading the whole 20 pages now...

{ minus most of the posts by the LDS folks on here ... because they simply are clueless as to the thread ***le / question. }

... I agree with what poster/member BrianH said on page 19 ; This whole Thread should have been placed over in the Christianity section of this website . It should NOT be in the "Mormonism" section. I realize that this website is lightly moderated because the founder has other duties and "many fish to fry" , so people sometimes get a little carried-away with certain issues.

Your replies to several people on this Thread (IMO) have not been helpful to getting the true Gospel message out to the LDS folks who may visit W.M. Ministries Forum.

On this Thread , at least one member is a well meaning Christian - but , alas he wears Arminian gl***es , and can only see scripture verses that go along with John 3:16 and the Finney/Moody/Sunday/Graham "sawdust trail" evangelical/evangelistic method.

{That member replied to one of my posts and for some "knee-****" anti-John Calvin reason , needlessly bad-mouthed "Calvinism" in a thread which had nothing to do with the Genevan Reformer. I would betcha he has never even read one page of The Ins***utes of the Christian Religion ...! }

That member ( and yourself ) need to move this whole Thread over to the "Christian" section and not confuse the LDS and other curious visitors to the website.

Another member on this Thread ( who is probably a Christian ) is another part of the problem. That poster insulted the Creeds that have historically been the succinct , re****al / refutation of wrong and wicked doctrines of the gnostics and pagans. They ( The Creeds of Early Christianity )are in paragraph/page long form and have great explanations of what real Christians have held to since the earliest days of Christianity... !!

Those are The Apostles Creed ; The Nicene Creed ; and the Athasian Creed ; and the Formula of Chalcedon. These are the things which SHOULD be read and understood and will answer in a memorable form that the average Joe or Jane human can understand. Please do NOT throw out the good Theology/ Christology of the 4 main Creeds just because they are older than you are.

Do a search engine and look up any of those Creeds and read them for yourself. If you have a 1940 Episcopal Hymnal at home or a 1941 Lutheran Hymnal , you have some great Theology / Christology within reach. Open up and read the Nicene Creed --- ..." Very God of very God ..." " Begotten not made"... Oh folks , that is rich ! Only cultists and the devil hisself hate the Creeds. Read the Creeds and decide for yourself.

Those creeds which have stood the test of time against the forerunners of the J.W.s and the oneness pentecostal nutcases and the sexually obsessed mormon founders of the L.D.S. , will be around long after you and I are gone.

Christianity is Deep ! Christianity is also simple enough that children can understand it. Seems it is the adults that get all wobbly-bobbly in the head and can't seem to understand the black and white of scripture.

The basic - simple answer to your Thread question is simply this: Read what the Lord Jesus said as recorded for us in the Gospels and Acts and Revelation. Follow Him !

Read what the Apostles of The Lord Jesus said as recorded for us in the Acts and Epistles and Revelation. Do them !

Read all of God's written word starting at Genesis 1:1 and read the whole Older Testament , then you can understand what you/me/we are guilty of and why you/me/we need a Saviour.

If anyone reading this Thread needs more details on the Christian Faith and how to be a Biblical Christian then read / look-up ( Search Engine ) The 3 main Creeds that I mentioned above.

For more in-depth Theology/Christology / Soteriology / Pneumatology ? Ecclesiology , read the : The 39 Articles of Religion ; The 2nd London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689 ; The Three Forms of Unity ; and if you have a copy of The Open Bible ( Nelson Publishers ) , read and study "The Christian-Life Study Outlines" .

I agree with much of what you said. I have been trying to get these bible and bible versions discussions taken to the appropriate category since it wasn't and isn't about Mormonism. I will not discuss bible versions in this category and we have been warned not to. How many times must a person be banned before they start following the rules? There are some on here who are not witnessing to Mormons. It makes one wonder why they even post on here at all.

BTW: if I am the member you have singled out as Armimian, which by the way, I am not, then please say so. Thanks.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Decalogue

{That member replied to one of my posts and for some "knee-****" anti-John Calvin reason , needlessly bad-mouthed "Calvinism" in a thread which had nothing to do with the Genevan Reformer. I would betcha he has never even read one page of The Ins***utes of the Christian Religion ...!

I hold to the Reformed position but other Christians on the board besides you believe that those who follow Calvin are in a cult. TheSword, ErikErik, Jim, and Alan spent a month or so trying to tell me that Calvinism is false and that I needed to find the truth.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

I agree with much of what you said. I have been trying to get these bible and bible versions discussions taken to the appropriate category since it wasn't and isn't about Mormonism.

yet you are the one who keeps bringing it up and when I call you on it you say it should be discussed in another forum.

[HopefulSaint]

Originally Posted by Decalogue

...Rather than ask a Mormon something that they do not know and cannot fathom... because they may be "warm-hearted" , but are Biblically unaware people.... ... Nobody that buys into that kinda thinking is going to have a clue as to what real Biblical Christianity is.

{ minus most of the posts by the LDS folks on here ... because they simply are clueless as to the thread ***le / question. }
...people sometimes get a little carried-away with certain issues....Your replies to several people on this Thread (IMO) have not been helpful to getting the true Gospel message out to the LDS folks ...at least one member is a well meaning Christian - but , alas he wears Arminian gl***es , and can only see scripture verses that go along with John 3:16 and the Finney/Moody/Sunday/Graham "sawdust trail" evangelical/evangelistic method.

{That member replied to one of my posts and for some "knee-****" anti-John Calvin reason , needlessly bad-mouthed "Calvinism" in a thread which had nothing to do with the Genevan Reformer. I would betcha he has never even read one page of The Ins***utes of the Christian Religion ...! }
... Another member on this Thread ( who is probably a Christian ) is another part of the problem. That poster insulted the Creeds ... ... Open up and read the Nicene Creed --- ..." Very God of very God ..." " Begotten not made"... Oh folks , that is rich ! Only cultists and the devil hisself hate the Creeds.... Christianity is Deep ! Christianity is also simple enough that children can understand it. Seems it is the adults that get all wobbly-bobbly in the head and can't seem to understand the black and white of scripture.

The basic - simple answer to your Thread question is simply this: Read what the Lord Jesus said as recorded for us in the Gospels and Acts and Revelation. Follow Him !
Read what the Apostles of The Lord Jesus said as recorded for us in the Acts and Epistles and Revelation. Do them !

Read all of God's written word starting at Genesis 1:1 and read the whole Older Testament , then you can understand what you/me/we are guilty of and why you/me/we need a Saviour. ....

....and I nominate that post for "Most Condescending, Insulting, Sanctimonious Post of the Week."

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by HopefulSaint

....and I nominate that post for "Most Condescending, Insulting, Sanctimonious Post of the Week."

I saw nothing in it that personally posted one insult.. If you think it has show me and I will defend you.. But alas it was spoken against mormonism and not against Hopeful.. IHS jim

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

I agree with much of what you said..

You don't agree with hardly anything that he says. He is a Calvinist and you are an Arminian. Don't you remember that you inferred that Calvinism is a cult? We went over this again and again and you told me that you were right and that my beliefs about Calvinism were wrong.

[jdjhere]

jdjhere stated:
So wait..that IS two gods then?

HopefulSaint stated: Yes, that is correct. But if you're a Christian, then regardless how many gods and lords there are, and regardless where they are--on Earth, or up in heaven--to you there is only one God (Jesus' Father) and to you there is only one Lord (Jesus).

I may not agree with you HopefulSaint, but I understand what you are trying to say here. Just to clarify, do LDS have any kind of total for the NUMBER of gods that exist and if not are there....say...more than 10? Even if its a god that we dont have anything to do with, worship, etc... is there more than 10 in the entirety of everything that exists everywhere? And is it your belief that God the Father is a god but Jesus is just a lord? Or does Jesus being born of God the Father also make him a god? Just trying to clarify and keep your beliefs correct and straight in my mind. Thanks.

[HopefulSaint]

Originally Posted by jdjhere

I may not agree with you HopefulSaint, but I understand what you are trying to say here.

(if you're a Christian, then regardless how many gods and lords there are, and regardless where they are--on Earth, or up in heaven--to you there is only one God (Jesus' Father) and to you there is only one Lord (Jesus).

Thanks.

Just to clarify, do LDS have any kind of total for the NUMBER of gods that exist and if not are there....say...more than 10?

LDS doctrine is that there never was a time when there were not gods--there never was an initial "big bang" that started the race of spirit-based beings that we are part of.

And is it your belief that God the Father is a god but Jesus is just a lord? Or does Jesus being born of God the Father also make him a god?

Very good. Not just a lord: To LDS, Jesus is our Lord partly because He led the forces of good against those of Lucifer in the war in heaven, partly because of His atonement and death for us making Him our Savior, and partly because His destiny is to rule over this planet during the millennium, etc. But He is also the glorified, only begotten Son of God in whom there is no sin and in whom all of His Father's virtues are evident, which makes Jesus a God--just not "the greatest." Jesus said "My Father is greater than I."

I am happy to answer any other questions from you, since you seem sincere and honest and perceptive.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Decalogue

That member ( and yourself ) need to move this whole Thread over to the "Christian" section and not confuse the LDS and other curious visitors to the website.

I am intrigued by your post. You are a new poster here with only 50+ posts and you tell multiple posters what they should or should not do? Why is that? Not to mention falsely calling me a blasphemer in a prior post.

[Decalogue]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I am intrigued by your post. You are a new poster here with only 50+ posts and you tell multiple posters what they should or should not do? Why is that? Not to mention falsely calling me a blasphemer in a prior post.

I should never click onto this website so close to bedtime...

I'll try to be brief , but that rarely happens. I have to be to work before the chickens crow , and I had thought my long post above would have / should have answered the Thread ***le Question , and addressed some obvious problems.

A.) Whether I have have 50+ posts or as some people do with thousands of posts does not mean that I do not understand a thing or two about Mormonism and about Christianity. I have stated actual-factual things , and I have made statements that are IMO ( In My Opinion ) , and usually my opinions are based on Scripture and things which I have seen and heard over the years. I often will point readers to a Bible p***age and or a sermon or book source.

B. ) It is called Walter Martin's Ministries Forum --- and is put up on the internet by his daughter Jill. I remember Walter. I listened to him almost every sa****ay night on the radio on KYMS-FM 106 , and on the 1/2 hour program that was played during the weekdays. I attended 2 of his lectures , and bought some of his books. Even called into the program at least twice. Walter was not Mister cushy-wushy when dealing with cults and false religions. He taught us to do what Paul and Peter and Stephen did centuries ago and what Jude admonished us to do: Rightly Defend the Faith ! Stand tall when confronting evil and heresy.

Per my post count ... well , I have been on the Website for a long time. I signed up for the Forums in Feb. 2010. I was welcomed by Jill. I might have posted more , but most of the other sections on here are vverrrry ssloooww. Then I had a very bad problem with the Firewall / anti-virus thingy-ma-jig , and I could not log in for months on this site.

I have posted on other sites , and I have found that many people who sit behind a keyboard and type without anyone watching , sure do get weird sometimes. Others think that they are The Pope and we should bow before them and kis their ring. Nobody is above scripture and if someone on the internet is coming up with some new wind of doctrine --- Flee !

If anyone gets offended by scripture , then so be it.

C. ) I removed the post where the ***le said "Blasphemer" , after you explained that you were trying to make a point to poster "HopefulSaint". I deleted that post after you said that you were not LDS and that you had a plan. I completely disagree with your approach then , and now. For the very sentence which you posted. Do you not understand that hundreds of people on the internet can read what you have posted ? If I did not understand your intent ( and I'm not wet behind the ears , by a long time ) then I think that many folks who read the website without posting , may be somewhat confused by that post you made. Why not you delete it and move on. ..?

I have no Mod or Admin powers here. I do have the ability to read and by the Grace of God , the ability to think. If Walter Martin ever used your tactics to reach Mormons and / or J.W.s , I never heard it or read it. I am certified positive that Walter Martin would not start a Thread about "What are the requirements to be a Hindu ?" over in the Buddhist section of the Boards.

--------- ------------- ------------- ----------

D. ) Okay now --- HopefulSaint : Oy Vey ,,, What I posted above was true , and just like Walter Martin's books and tapes ; If the head guys in S.L.C. could have refuted it , they would have. I stand by what I said.

L.D.S. Mormons are by and large often nice people. That does not mean they know what the Bible says / commands / teaches. Mormonism teaches that Jesus and lucifer are "spirit-brothers". If you knew your Bible you would be indignant that Joseph Smith and B. Young and the others could 'Pull-a-rabbit-out-of-their-hat" , and con so many people with that lie. Christians ( and those Creeds I mentioned ) teach that there is One true and living God. he exists in 3 Persons. The Father , The Son , The Holy Ghost. { And before you insult the Triune Godhead ,,, I'll remind you again ---> The Trinity is mentioned in The BoM. }

What I first typed was not the word "unaware" , but it was a word that starts with 'i' and ends with 't' , and has a 'g' and 'r' , 'n' , 'o' , but the word sensor-gizmo turned it into a line of asterisks . That word is the perfect description of the average Joe and Jane Mormon ; They simply do NOT know / they are unaware of the Bible. They may own one , but , they change many of the word meanings around.

Instead of feeling insulted and then posting that you did not like my post above ... why not actually do the google or the bing and look up those Creeds and Documents which I mentioned. Don't get mad or upset at a Christian who is trying to expose you to the real gospel.

The Sword99 ---> I did not use any screen names , because I wanted the folks to remember the content of the post --- not the name/ID of the poster. I have been and still do post on other sites , and it seems that many folks have a problem staying on the track of the Thread Topic / Question. Too often things get very "heated" , but not more illuminated.

Good night folks , I am reaaly tired.

[TheSword99]

[QUOTE=Decalogue;92303 The Sword99 ---> I did not use any screen names , because I wanted the folks to remember the content of the post --- not the name/ID of the poster. I have been and still do post on other sites , and it seems that many folks have a problem staying on the track of the Thread Topic / Question. Too often things get very "heated" , but not more illuminated.

Good night folks , I am reaaly tired.[/QUOTE]

I believe the honest way is to speak to the person privately whom you believe is in err. But to anonamously single people out for judgement leaves them unable to defend their position.

I do completely agree with you that this thread does not belong in the Mormonism section.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Decalogue

If Walter Martin ever used your tactics to reach Mormons and / or J.W.s , I never heard it or read it.

I am not trying to use "tactics" rather I am trying to discuss things openly and honestly with other posters. BTW what makes you think people have to post in the way that you approve of? That seems odd to me.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

I believe the honest way is to speak to the person privately whom you believe is in err. But to anonamously single people out for judgement leaves them unable to defend their position.

You had no problem telling me publicly that you thought that my Reformed beliefs were in error.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

I do completely agree with you that this thread does not belong in the Mormonism section.

And I completely disagree with you. Mormons call themselves Christian. Christians tell Mormons that they are not Christian. Isn't this one of the most important topics that could be discussed on the Mormon board?

[HopefulSaint]

Originally Posted by Decalogue

D. ) Okay now --- HopefulSaint : Oy Vey ,,, What I posted above was true

You may feel that there is no LDS person on the planet who is biblically literate, but it's a rule of thumb that such sweeping generalizations about an entire group of people are false. You wouldn't be the first prejudiced person to malign and insult an entire group of people. "All Negroes are immoral, all Mexicans are lazy, all Jews are misers," etc.

If you are "unaware" that some LDS people have post-graduate degrees in biblical studies-related fields, then I wonder who is really the i-gnorant person here.

,, I'll remind you again ---> The Trinity is mentioned in The BoM.

Are you trying, with that remark, to vindicate the Book of Mormon? Or disparage it? If it really teaches Trinitarianism as it's taught by some Evangelicals, then I am tempted to lose my faith that it's a work of scripture....

That word is the perfect description of the average Joe and Jane Mormon ; They simply do NOT know / they are unaware of the Bible.

And what are your qualifications supporting your claim to know what the average LDS person knows about the Bible?Are you aware of the study that suggests that the average LDS person has a better understanding of Bible teachings than the average mainstream Christian has?

Instead of feeling insulted and then posting that you did not like my post above ... why not actually do the google or the bing and look up those Creeds and Documents which I mentioned.

Already done that. Instead of feeling like you're superior, why don't you get a dose of humility?